Hi, the 358 looks very popular in here. I am building one and need some input on barrel length. I have a #3 Lilja sporter barrel coming in, in a week or so. I was going to go 19" but am thinking 21" now. I usually love short barrels but am thinking the 358 might need more to get the most out of it? Even though most shots are under 100 yds. Any help? I should add that the rifle is being built as an ultralight so I would prefer the 19" but am thinking I may regret it later on.I am not one to do projects like this all the time. In fact this may be my only custom.

I did the same thing, but started with a 26" and worked it back to 23" and quit.

Might go to 22" but certainly not any shorter.

Were it my custom lightweight I'd start with 21 inches, or maybe 22, and then shorten it as needed to fine tune the handling. Sounds like a fun project. What action are you using?

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Blauwkamp:
I did the same thing, but started with a 26" and worked it back to 23" and quit.

Might go to 22" but certainly not any shorter.

+1

Start with 23", the ideal length. You can always cut is shorter later, but I'd stick with 23".

Don

Using a 700 Ti SA, McM Edge stock in mod 7 shape, #3 Lilja 358 win.I have 1 week or so on the barrel and about 10 weeks on the stock left. I have everything else. Hope to have it all set before the season in Nov.

My .358 is on a Remington M78 and I had it made up with a 23" Douglas #4 contour(I think). At any rate it looks appropriate and works well. Plateau Hunter

I had built a WinM70 358Win with 22" #3 contour. In a wooden FWT stock its more sporter than featherweight ... but perfect!
CHeers...
Con

Mine have been 22"and those worked fine.

My BLR has the stock and very light 20 inch barrel. My only snivel is that Ihave been shooting custom mausers most of my life and I like a bit of forward weight for field shooting. Don't get me wrong it carries just fine, is accurate with a rest but I need some offhand practice to get used to shooting it that way. As to basic length 20 inches of barrel is plenty, not very loud at all.

I started with a #3 contour 26" barrel and it handled so good I left it, and I hate long barrels. Mine shoots small groups with 225 or 250's. Go with a 1-12in twist!

505ED

12 twist definitely,

Since the bore is large, the barrels are 'lighter' per same diameter as say a sporter in 7mm or other smaller, less metal in the 35 bore bbl all else equal.

I like short, but a 22-23 sporter or heavy sport DIAMETER bbl, is not going to be overly heavy and will handle quicker than a small bore of same size.

As for ballistic efficiency, I don't see why a 19-22" would not give you a very good burn as the expansion ratio is very high in the 358, much area in bbl to burn per inch of bbl.

I did get 1 in 12 twist on it which seems to be the most popular although I noticed that a few compaines only offer 1 in 14" and why on earth is my 350 rem Mag 1 in 16"? I would never choose that given a choice.

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
12 twist definitely,

Since the bore is large, the barrels are 'lighter' per same diameter as say a sporter in 7mm or other smaller, less metal in the 35 bore bbl all else equal.

I like short, but a 22-23 sporter or heavy sport DIAMETER bbl, is not going to be overly heavy and will handle quicker than a small bore of same size.

As for ballistic efficiency, I don't see why a 19-22" would not give you a very good burn as the expansion ratio is very high in the 358, much area in bbl to burn per inch of bbl.

Ditto I've two 35 caliber rifles with 16 1/2" barrels and one with a 24" barrel. Off hand shooting performance goes to the 24" hands down. Now if you go with the scout set up and put the scope out on the barrel(added weight up front) that's another story. roger

My 358 Win is a Winchester Classic Featherweight with a 22" barrel and I think it to be perfect. Lou

quote:

Originally posted by Ralph Barilla:
I did get 1 in 12 twist on it which seems to be the most popular although I noticed that a few compaines only offer 1 in 14" and why on earth is my 350 rem Mag 1 in 16"? I would never choose that given a choice.

Because somebody at Remington had their head up their rectal oriface. I have five rifles chambered to the .358 Win. and three in .35 Whelen. The Ruger 77s and a semi-custom Mauser have 1 in 16" twists while the BLR (First version) and the Savage 99 have proper 1 in 12" twists.
The custom Mauser I have in .35 Whelen has a 1 in 14" twist, but I didn't build that one. I got it for a good price at an estate sale. The Remington 700 Classic and Ruger 77RS both have that damned 1 in 16" twist.
The 1 in 16" works fairly well with 250 gr. bullets in the Whelen, but accuracy is only fair at best in the .358s with that twist.
Which brings me to the .350 Rem. Mag. IIRC, Remington originally loaded ammo with 150, 200 and 250 gr. bullets. I'd be willing to bet they were thinking that the 150 and 200 gr. loads would be the most popular and used the 1 in 16" twist to accomodate those two loadings. It would still be reasonably adequate for the 250 gr. bullets at the ranges they most likely would be used.
It does make one wonder about those 150 gr. bullets though. I fell into a bunch of those for a very decent price, but have never loaded them up in either the .358 or the Whelen. Might be interesting to play with them a bit. Probably be too fragile for anything big, but fun to shoot.
Paul B.

Paul B,
Bugger the 150gr and 200gr thinking justification ... Remington had their heads up their combined orifices full stop! I wonder whether that's why the original Remington 35Whelen factory ammunition used a 250gr RN rather than the later spitzer? Maybe they were unsure of their own product!!
Just a clarification ... the last run of Ruger 350RemMag's were 1:12" ... not sure what the current Ruger 358Wins are using.
Cheers...
Con

The current Rugers are also 1 in 12" in .358.

I also believe Ruger is 12, and am 99.9% they confirmed that in a letter to me. Also, I believe their website has it listed, but it's always a good idea to 'confirm' things, as there are typos from time to time in print and online media.

The 150s would be interesting for light recoil, etc. and I believe PACO's article on the 358 mention it being VERY close in trajectory to a 270 which is saying alot!

My belief is a good 225gr would make a great all around 1 load choice for 358 or 350 mag. owner.

quote:

The 150s would be interesting for light recoil, etc. and I believe PACO's article on the 358 mention it being VERY close in trajectory to a 270 which is saying alot!

I read that article as well, although it does seem to fly in the face of what we believe concerning BC and SD. I'd never call Paco a liar though as he's shot theose bullets and I haven't. I picked them up for a guy who asked me to buy all I could find. Then when I told him what it would cost he told me to to fuck off and I was stuck with 800 bullets. I sold 100 to a friend for his .357 Herrett and the rest sit in a coffeee can. Paco's load for the .35 Whelen with 250 gr. bullets and H-335 is a winner in my three rifles. The bullets I have are Remington's that were made for the .350 Rem. mag., so maybe they will work at that. Definitely something to think about. I have to load up some ammo this afternoon to take to the range tomorrow. maybe, I just might load up a few just to see if they'll shoot worth a damn.
Paul B.

Being old enough to remember when the Remington 600's in 350 magnum were shiny new I figure the prevailing thinking at5 the time was that slower twists gave higher velocities. The 270 Weatherby had a 1-12 inch twist as did the 257 Weatherby. The 308 still in many rifles harbors the same twist. My 35 Whelen has a 1-14 inch twist and it shoots well indeed with 250 greain Spitzers. Also back then almost all the heavier bullets had round noses, Remember the Partition was the only "Premium" bullet that generally had a point on it.

I'd go with 22" barrel!

I love these .358 win threads! In the "real" world this cartridge seems like it's buried next to the wooly mammoth. But here and on 24, you find out what a great and useful tool it really is!

My SAKO carbine has a 20" tube. It's balance is pretty much neutral - dead center - I'd rather have it just a bit muzzle heavy for off hand work. It holds easier that way. I would vote 22" myself.

You might talk to your smith about going 24" and seeing how well you like it before he blues it. Then you can lob off whatever extra tube you decide you don't want. BT

If I was you, I would start long and then shorten the barrel until you like the way it handles.

I have done that with the last couple of rifles. They have both turned out very well.

Blacktail53 that is a beauty! Thanks guys for all your advice. I'm definitely leaning in the 21" direction. I don't have a local smith so to have it chopped until i'm happy would require shipping and return shipping each time.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktail53:
I love these .358 win threads! In the "real" world this cartridge seems like it's buried next to the wooly mammoth. But here and on 24, you find out what a great and useful tool it really is!

My SAKO carbine has a 20" tube. It's balance is pretty much neutral - dead center - I'd rather have it just a bit muzzle heavy for off hand work. It holds easier that way. I would vote 22" myself.

You might talk to your smith about going 24" and seeing how well you like it before he blues it. Then you can lob off whatever extra tube you decide you don't want. BT

Blacktail, that rifle is AWFULLY 'unbalanced' I think you can ship it to me so I can remove the 'burden' from your hands!

My Montana Rifle Co has a 21-inch barrel that seems to be just right. It's a 1 in 12 inch.

.65br
Hey now, that's what friends are for! You go wait by the mail box an she'll be right there....

I love this rifle. Whether I get to shoot at anything or not, it's just a joy to carry and hunt with.
It's my idea of the perfect timber rifle for deer and elk, but easliy at home out to 300 yards.

Ralph,
21" should be fine. You want her to "look" right and balance properly for good handling.
Best of luck with your project. BT

I have a custom .358, ruger action tang safety with a #3douglas barrel that's 19 inches long. It shoots better than I can.

bbruce.. How are your velocities out of that 19"? Have you tried to Chrony them?

From my 21-inch barrel, I get an average of 2535 FPS with a 225 gr Nosler partition. That is a "book max" load that I worked up to. I can go even hotter, but the gain is just not that much - up to 2570 FPS is all for a lot more pressure.

This is it in its MacMIllan Edge version -

Ralph, what you can do is shorten the bbl with a hacksaw, an inch at a time, until you like its balance. Then send it to the smith, just once, for crowning. The muzzle doesn't have to be perfect to test balance.

Self crown, not always that bad, heck I finally got the nerve to chop a 24" 708 HB down, to lighten it, and at 22 or 22.5" and did a crown myself after cutting with a hacksaw and smoothing flat with a wet stone, crude yes, but it worked, and I never really saw the accuracy gain after I had a gunsmith finish it at 21", it shot fine, though cosmetically left some to be desired, I did cut the bore a new crown with a RCBS chamfer tool before it went to the smith.

Good idea, and Blacktail, give me an ETA! Ha. Nice rifle there, I could take one in 260 and one in either 338F or 358W and be set! I admit a weakness for Mannlicher stocks.

I just don't think I could ever take a hacksaw to a Lilja barrel. Maybe a take off crap barrel just to screw around but not a brand new Lilja. I'll stick with 21" for now. If I don't like it I'll spring for the second round of shipping and the wait to get it shorter. Thanks for all the advice guys!! Very informed group in here.

I was not recommending a hack saw blade for the 'final job' but to experiment with length and balance. If you are having a smith finish it, it really cannot hurt anything before then. Just be sure you plug the barrel below just below the cut to keep any metal out of the bore, and clean well from chamber to muzzle direction only after done.

Hey, I think you are going to be tickled pink at 21" and not think twice. A #3 at 21 sounds about perfect to me in 35 cal

My recent 358 Win build consists of a 21" SS SM Pac Nor 12 twist w/muzzle diameter of .80" & 11* crown....the barrel turned out just the way I wanted it to be...yes....80" at the muzzle ? but remember its a .358" hole in the end of the tube..action is a Savage 16 w/Accue trigger...using a factory BSS laminate stock..barrel channel enlarged to fit the heavier pipe..mounts are Weaver GS two pc bases with Burris Signature rings & Bushnell 4200 1x6 Firefly scope...using a Weaver T16 for load development...have a new bottle of W748 to test soon...The rifle with the 21" tube feels good/swings nice...hope to try it out on deer & elk this October using 225 Nosler PTs..

6.5br... I know what you meant but I don't trust myself at all with a hacksaw even for the "before" part.

I can't believe how solid a following the .358 win has. By cruising around online it's seems like it's 1 of the top 3 custom calibers. There is something terribly wrong with the industry not to take notice. I guess Ruger finally did, but how about some more companies jump on the bandwagon and more factory loadings as well. How about simply making the damn brass available 365 days a year. Is that too much to ask? jeez. I don't like the .308 cases. I like proper headstamps in case for some reason it falls into the hands of someone that doesn't know better.

Ralph, I agree, shame this fine round has not been enjoyed by more, and offered much more by factories over the years.

I CANNOT tell you just how boring to ME the 30-06, 270, 280, 7mag, 300 mag, 308, etc. etc. are to me !!!

They work, and they sell, and that is what mfg have to deal with.....economics.

Ruger LISTENS and at the SHOT show, they had a meeting one morning discussing the very thing....LISTENING to what people like myself who went by the booth had to say.

Not a bad business model I'd say, BUILD what consumers want! If not, they will HAVE built what they want.....and having nice custom barrel in YOUR contour and lengh of choice and everything else personally selected is a sure way to having MORE satisfaction at the range and in the field.

I cannot tell you how much nicer it is to CLEAN a rifle with a good bbl, AND how many rounds of ammo and experimenting time, reloading time I have saved when using a custom built rifle that had 'user friendly' tack driving accuracy.

It is hard to go back.....I shoot many factory guns, but the bbls are not as slick, foul easier and take more time to clean, and often never shoot as many variety of loads as well.

That said, I am VERY impressed with Ruger's bbl quality of late. Far cry from the outsourced bbls they once had......vs those now made in house on the latest equipment. My 350 RM was like a custom bbl, the slickness, consistency and it shot VERY well!

I am hankering for a 338 federal and perhaps 358 by Ruger.

But yes, it IS nice having properly stamped brass if given the choice.

The big problem with the .358 Win. is the gun hacks declared it a short range "brush cartridge" that kicked too hard. Those of us who bought one anyway and used it, found out it was a hell of a lot better than what the "eggspurts" said it was.
But then again, the "average" American shooter never has liked the 35 calibers much, other than the rather puny, relatively speaking, .35 Remington.
Paul B.

Interesting how a few articles can be the death of a perfect cartridge. So basically ignorance killed the .358 . Too bad the industry takes their word as if it's the bible. I personally can't remember the last time I bought a gun rag. Sick and tired of them writing articles to sell something instead of the truth. It may not even be their own opinion but they'll write it if someone pays them to.

Off topic...can someone tell me how to contact a mod. I tried several days ago but got no response.Thanks in advance.