OK, obviously anywhere but the US, the 9.3x62 is the most popular non-magnum medium bore in existence and the .35 Whelen is virtually unheard of.

Norma, RWS, Sellier & Bellot, PMP, and Prvi Partizan offer 9.3x62.

I can find no foreign ammo maker offering .35 Whelen.

Remington seems to have abandoned the Whelen. The current references I have show no rifles or ammo from Remington in this caliber.

Neither Winchester nor Remington offer either cartridge.

Nosler and Federal offer both.

Hornady offers 9.3x62 but not .35 Whelen.

I have lists of the top 51 calibers in RCBS die sales for 2004 to 2007.

In those years the 9.3x62 ranked 49, 42, 50, and 39. Not high, but the .35 Whelen has never made the list.

Most mainstream foreign rifle manufacturers offer the 9.3x62. As far as I can find, the only mainstream manufacturer anywhere (not custom or semi-custom) offering the .35 Whelen is CZ.

So, in Dimebox, Texas or Tioga, North Dakota or anywhere else in the U.S. is .35 Whelen really more available than 9.3x62?

Please let me know if you can shed any light on U.S, availability of these two. Ammo sales figures for U.S.? More recent die sales figures? New rifle sales figures in U.S.?

Thanks,
Brazos_Jack

The .35 Whelen is purely a USA marketing anomoly that does nothing new or exceptional.

As more citizens of the USA get to use and see how versatile the 9.3x62 is for all large soft skinned game it maybe able to overcome the American aversion to metric nominclature.

If it had been called the .366 Beltless Magnum Express in the 50's and 60's it possibly would have taken off over there.

It does not use a .30-06 head size.

No matter what happens in the USA, the 9.3x62 will keep on doing what it has always done since 1905 in the rest of the world. Kill stuff.

Jack:

I have had a Remington Classic .35 Whelen for a long time and I have two 9.3X62s, a Blaser R93 as well as a CZ 550. I have come to prefer the 9.3X62 over the Whelen (and the .375 H&H for that matter) but I think the Whelen does have its' place. If you are hunting in North American or plains game in Africa, it's pretty had to beat the Whelen loaded to 2600 fps with a good 225 grain bullet like a TSX. On the other hand, I think the 9.3X62 is a little more versatile in that it has a bit more powder capacity and thus, it shoots heavier bullets a bit better. If I had to pick one, I would pick the 9.3X62 but they are both great cartridges. I can't answer your ammo question. Most of what I shoot are handloads but I don't have any trouble finding components for either cartridge.

Current advert for Grice Gun Shop in Clearfield, PA.

I have never owned or shot a Whelen and was reluctant to buy a 9.3x62 for the reason of ammo availability, but I had a friend talk me into a Blaser barrel in 9.3 and started off reloading for it. I have never fired a factory round in that barrel. I have quit worrying about the availability of factory ammo and just buy what I want to shoot or hunt with.

The only thing I might check on before buying a new caliber now is brass availability, but if I can get brass, I really don't care if factory ammo is even sold in the US.

In either cartridge I don't see availability to be an issue.

Even if your only effort made is to hang around on the AR Classified someone will eventually offer up a bunch or reloading components. If you don't reload yourself, certainly you know someone who does or can hire a business that does and your off to the races. If you buy right, one purchase can yield a lifetime supply of brass at least.

Sure it is possible to show up at the destination airport with your ammo luggage missing, but in that case I doubt it'd matter whether or not you were going to use either cartridge, you couldn't find them here in Dillingham, so you'd be using a loaner rifle anyway.

quote:

Sure it is possible to show up at the destination airport with your ammo luggage missing, but in that case I doubt it'd matter whether or not you were going to use either cartridge, you couldn't find them here in Dillingham, so you'd be using a loaner rifle anyway.

Scott,

What CAN you find in Dillingham? .30-06? .338 Win Mag? .375 H&H?

My rifle is a Blaser R93 so I can always throw in a spare scoped barrel if I know what is locally available.

I know that, other than the .338 Win Mag, medium bores have always failed to catch on in the US and so I know neither the .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 are top sellers.

I had just always heard and believed that of the two, in the US I would be more likely to find .35 Whelen on the shelf. But as I stated in my original post, what evidence I can find - US companies offering ammo, RCBS die sale, etc., indicated that the 9.3x62 MAY have overtaken the .35 Whelen in the US. I was hoping someone might have some ammo or rifle sales figures to confirm or deny.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Sullivan:
..... I have quit worrying about the availability of factory ammo and just buy what I want to shoot or hunt with.

The only thing I might check on before buying a new caliber now is brass availability, but if I can get brass, I really don't care if factory ammo is even sold in the US.

Me, Too!

I rebarreled an old Vz-24 of mine to 9,3x62 partly because for all the history behind the 9,3x62 Mauser. Got dies from Lee, cases from Graf and bullets from Nosler/Swift. Its never shot a factory load.

quote:

Originally posted by Brazos Jack:

Remington seems to have abandoned the Whelen. The current references I have show no rifles or ammo from Remington in this caliber.

Checked Rem's web site and so far found two rifles offered and two different loads of ammunition. The rifles are the M700 CDL product #27019 and the M750 Woodmaster product #27079. The ammuntition are both standard Core-Lokt 200 gr #21495 and 250 gr #21499. Didn't search the premium stuff for Whelen ammunition as I highly doubt the premium stuff will do a whole lot better than the regular Core-Lokt.

I've only have the .35 Whelen on a custom 1903 rifle. I've found ammunition on the shelves here at the local Dick's sporting goods, on the shelves in Craig CO while elk hunting, and in Petersburg AK while bear hunting. While that isn't a large sample of places to hunt I've never seen the 9.3X62 on the shelves anywhere.

I can see why the 9.3X62 would out sell the .35 Whelen at RCBS, if you own the 9.3 more than likely you will reload for it anyway. While I have RCBS dies for the .35 I usually shoot just plain 200 grain Rem ammunition out of it. Bought 200 rounds at Dick's for $13 a box after discount. Can't imagine anything I'll hunt in the lower 48 that will not fall to a properly placed 200 grain bullet out of the .35 Whelen. Plus I don't imagine either cartridge is a heavily used range cartridge, so my 200 rounds will last me several years.

We all know the 9.3x62 was developed in 1905 and was popular outside the US, while the 35 Whelen started as a wildcat in 1922 and has been "popular" in the US.

I have owned and used a 35 Whelen since the early 1960s, and like many back then I accepted and used it as a wildcat. In the 1960s the 9.3X62 was something you could look up in "Cartridges of the World" but you could not buy rifles for it unless they were imported and you could not buy components in most outlets to reload it -- and I never saw factory ammunition for it at any gun store back then.

It seemes to me that the 9.3X62 did not start to develop a following in the US until the 1980s/1990s as rifles and components started to become available. I am not sure that placing in the top 51 RCBS die sales since 2004 is a good indicator of how many Whelen dies vs. 9.3X52 dies were sold in the US prior to the increase in 9.3X62 popularity.

I suspect (I have no "proof") that are 10+ times as many working 35 Whelens kicking around the US than 9.3X62s. Several of my friends have Whelens, and I have seen many a 35 Whelen in the field and on used gun racks. I have never hunted with anybody nor do I personally know anyone who owns or hunts with a 9.3X62. But I am just one data point. Most Americans will never hunt in Africa and thus the DG requirements probably had little bearing on their decision to build/buy a Whelen vs the 9.3X62. I have never hunted in Africa and never will, but if I was -- I would take a .375 H&H as a minimum for DG.

Remington did a disservice to the Whelen when they introduced it with such a slow twist rate. As to availability of ammunition, I have never bought or shot factory ammo in my Whelen. All my brass was always necked up 30-06 until last year when I finally broke down and ordered 200 Whelen brass. Local gun shops seem to carry a smattering of 35 Whelen and 9.3X62 ammo.

They both kill game very dead, and if you are primarily hunting in North America, I have always said that arguments over or about the 35 Whelen vs. the 9.3X62 are the equivalent of bald men fighting over a comb.

Barstooler

quote:

Originally posted by Brazos Jack:

quote:

Sure it is possible to show up at the destination airport with your ammo luggage missing, but in that case I doubt it'd matter whether or not you were going to use either cartridge, you couldn't find them here in Dillingham, so you'd be using a loaner rifle anyway.

Scott,

What CAN you find in Dillingham? .30-06? .338 Win Mag? .375 H&H?

My rifle is a Blaser R93 so I can always throw in a spare scoped barrel if I know what is locally available.

I know that, other than the .338 Win Mag, medium bores have always failed to catch on in the US and so I know neither the .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 are top sellers.

I had just always heard and believed that of the two, in the US I would be more likely to find .35 Whelen on the shelf. But as I stated in my original post, what evidence I can find - US companies offering ammo, RCBS die sale, etc., indicated that the 9.3x62 MAY have overtaken the .35 Whelen in the US. I was hoping someone might have some ammo or rifle sales figures to confirm or deny.

In addition to me being a bit more than average ignorant, Dillingham is an informational black hole so stats on ammo or rifle sales figures are not something I'd have.

You could expect in Dillingham to buy all standard cartridges like the .243 to .375 H&H. One grocery store in particular keeps a decent stock. At one time I owned a 9.3 here and it was the only one before during or since. I dunno if there are any 35's, I haven't seen them.

If you fly into a place like this to hunt I think odds are good your luggage will all show up relatively at the same time as you. If your ammo just completely falls off the edge of the earth, at least ask around locally, there might be someone living there that oddly enough has extra ammo to give.

FYI I have 3 or 4 boxes of 9.3 ammo loaded and ready to hunt, just not the rifle to go with it.

FWIW Hornady and Federal are both loading the 9x62 for 2010.

Jack

Between the 35W and the 9,3x62, I think the avilibility of the 9,3 is better now and it will continue to be so, evem more in the future.

If you are worrying about finding ammo in the US for Big big game the 338 Win Mag is probably the most easily found.

For all the years I have hunted, I like to go into gun, and sporting goods stores when i am on the road. In laces where ekl sized game and u is hunted 338 is usually avialable. many times at even small gas stations and "country" hardware and grocery stores.

It is much more often found than even 375 H&H.

338 Win Mag,300 Win Mag, 30/06, 308, 270, and 243 are most often seen in my experience.

In Alaska I would think 375 H&H would be fairly common as well.

But in Bug Tussle CO, AZ, MT, ID, UT, TX, OR, WA, I think 338 is a lot easier to find than a 375 H&H.

One thing a hunter can do,if he hunts with a not easy to find calibre, is to pre pack some ammo, ready to ship.

SO if he gets to his final commercial flight, and does not have his ammo, he can call back home ahd have it shied to him "next day air", which in some place like Dillingham, might take four days to get there.

But at least you have a plan.

Thanks NE 450 No2,

The backbone of my retirement battery is going to be a pair of Blaser R93 Professional frames. I already have .270, .30-06, .338WM, and .375 H&H barrels for them. But I just got back from South Africa where I hunted plains game with a borrowed 9.3x62 - an old '98 commercial Mauser dating from around 1906.

My .338WM barrel is the heavy "semi weight" and I install a kickstop in the butt with it to balance it and to moderate recoil. I think I could handle a 9.3 std weight barrel without kickstop. So the rifle would be 3" shorter and 1.3 pounds lighter.

I'm trying to formulate an excuse for buying another barrel and see the 9.3 as giving me an easier to carry and manuever rifle for tight brush like African bushveldt. I'm assuming that up to about 200 yards a 9.3 will be as effective on African plains game up to eland or large NA game like brown bears, elk and moose as my .338WM.

In your experience is the 9.3x62 as effective as the .338WM within 200 yards on such large game?

Inside of 300 yards I consider the 9,2x62 equal in the field to the 338 and the 375 H&H.

I base this on my extensive use of my 9x3x74R's.

Jack

Your calibre choices are very good ones.

You have 2 "deer" cartridges, that could be pressed in to hunting elk with the proper bullets, and you have 2 "BIG" big game cartridges, that would also work well in Africa.

ALL of them mainstream cartridges, found almost anywhere.

The only things I would add is a 22lr "kit" and a 223 barrel for varmints, and maybe a 28ga barrel if you hunt in remote camps, where grouse are in season.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Jack

Your calibre choices are very good ones.

You have 2 "deer" cartridges, that could be pressed in to hunting elk with the proper bullets, and you have 2 "BIG" big game cartridges, that would also work well in Africa.

ALL of them mainstream cartridges, found almost anywhere.

The only things I would add is a 22lr "kit" and a 223 barrel for varmints, and maybe a 28ga barrel if you hunt in remote camps, where grouse are in season.

I actually do have both a .22LR kit and a .17HMR, but I bypassed the .223 (have several AR-15's) for a semi wt .22-250.

A little OT, but across the pond here in far away Norway, I have hunted with my 35 Whelen for approx 15 years.
Great caliber, light gun (m77 / Shilen barrel), a strange bird at the range, and yes, I do reload.
The 35 Whelen is my "go to" deer rifle