Sorry, no personal experience with this cartridge yet. I've been looking for information on this cartridge because I'm considering it for a single shot I'm having made up.

One of Whelen's old (1918) books says factory loads were 33,000 to 35,000 "psi", which would be CUP. He offered some loads at 38,000 as well. Sharpe's book on handloading has Hercule's data (discontinued powders, sorry) to 42,000. Interpolating his data suggests that 2200 fps would have come at around 31,000. The 42,000 loads ran about 2500 fps from 24". CIP standards call for a limit of 39,000.

Apparently, improvements in powder helped performance. Whelen reported 2056 fps for factory spec ammo. Sharpe put it at 2180, a value also listed in his SAAMI table which was from just after WW-II.

I suspect modern powder allows the 200 @ 2200 load to be done at under 33 ksi (piezo).

As for thin brass, modern reloading books, such as Hodgdon, are giving loads for the .45-70 to a whopping 50,000 CUP, so I think there's enough metal in the case to do the job you're asking. Going from 2200 to 2400 is a 9% increase. Using a ballistics rule of thumb, that's about a 25% increase in pressure. If the old references are correct about 33,000, then we're talking about 41,000 for the hot load -- inline with Sharpe's data.

How is case stretch, chrome? It is a very tapered body, and I've not tried such cases. How are you forming your brass, standard dies or forming dies?

Now that Hornady has discontinued the 200 FP, what are your plans? Single shots won't care about spitzers, but I'm worried that all the spitzers are designed for .338-06 and .338 WM velocities, and so expansion might be marginal at the lower .33 WCF speeds.

Hornady does have a RN, 250 gn. If you're considering 200 @ 2400, that same pressure might get you 250 @ 2100 -- wanna go elk hunting?

I'll spare you my reasoning, but I suspect ReLoder 15 is the powder to use.

I know this isn't what you were looking for, but maybe there was something of use to you here.

Karl

Just an FYI, Hawk makes 180 and 200 grain flat points for the 33 Winchester, saw them on their web site...

www.hawkbullets.com

One of my favorites, I have it in the 86, both the lightweight take down and the standard, for fun loads look to the XMP-5744 powder makes great plinking stuff, Hawks have worked fairly well, but not as good as Hornaday stuff, I have gone to cast mostly now, for deer and hogs

Hey Carl,

Thanks for the interesting info.

I have not had to form any brass yet. I purchased 40 pcs. of Bertram brass from Midway for $32.00 for 20.

I was not to pleased with the quality, I could only use 80% due to case neck informalities.

In the future I plan on forming from 45-70 cases by purchasing a cheap set of 40-65 Win. dies.

I have some Nosler 180 gr. Ballistic Tips that I have tested. They show excellent expansion. I'm getting around 2,400 fps. but I can not find any load information with the 180 grain bullets. This thing is like loading for a Wildcat cartridge.
I took a small buck with the 200 gr. Hornady FP at around 100 yds. Had to take a rear end shot. (Texas Heart Shot). The deer dropped on the spot. I found the bullet Perfectly mushroomed at the base of the neck.

The cases have only one firing through them - with no signs of case stretch. I'm sure if loaded hot it will stretch.

My #1 goal is to get the 180 grain Ballistic Tip to 2,550 fps. and the 200 grain flat point to 2,400 fps. safely.
The Hornady book shows no info on the use of R-15 ??

Thanks, Chrome

I have had the best luck forming brass useing Lee dies, and I step them down by going from 45-70-40-65-38-56-33 I have never lost any brass this way, Starline has work fairly well for me



If you like the Hornady flat point buy them while you can , they have annoced' that they will stop production this year

Chrome:

I use 33 Winchester load data in my 338/06 for slower loads ( around 2200 to 2400 fps) and the velocity in the 338/06 is what is posted for the 33 winchester.

So take a look at some of the reloads for the 338/06 and start low and work up. If you are shooting it in a single shot, then it should not be sensitive. Never reloaded for a 45/70 case, so how does its capacity compare to an '06 case.

I had an interest in it until Hornady announced they were going to quit making the 200 grain flat points. Was going to rebarrel a marlin 45/70 to make one. Found a Marlin in 33 winchester only to find out that it had been bored out to 45/70 by the previous owner! What a loss!

email me if you are still looking for loads. I looked into it, so have some info on it.
seafire

chrome: I have samples of the Bertram .33 here with me, and I'm not much impressed. The rim is thin enough I worry that headspace would be an issue after full length resizing.



If you don't want to form your own, I recommend you get brass from http://www.buffaloarms.com/ The sample I got is very nicely done. They reform from R-P .45-70, so the headstamp is wrong, not that you'll confuse it for the parent case. The price is $50 / 100, about a third of the Bertram stuff.



As for the R-15 data, I don't know of any. For two reasons, I think it will be about right for the standard pressure WCF. First, the QuickLOAD simulator predicts this burning speed to be about right. Second, this is a low pressure cartridge with a fairly large case compared to the bore. It's analogous to the old British nitro express rounds. The author Ross Seyfried along with several members of these forums all agree R-15 is the best choice for the old NE rounds, so I'd start with it.



That said, for you it does not matter. Your Encore can handle a .338 Win Mag, so pressure isn't a big concern for you. I'd look to seafire's advice.



seafire: I see that the .338-06 has a case volume about 10% above the .33 WCF, so your comparison is fair. It should indeed help you select powders, if your gun (such as chrome's) is up to the pressures.



Karl

I've used that bullet in my 338-08 for deer. I've since gone to the 200SP or the 200 Ballistic Tip, but that old flat nose worked great out to about 150 yds.