I want to build a BLR in one of these calibers. Is there any real difference?

I know that the 9.3 is a factory cartridge but I would load most myself.

Will a factory 35 Whelan work in the AI version?

There are a lot of 9,3X62 fans here and Im sure youll get a lot of yeas for that one. The Whelan doesnt benefit much from the improved version. Personally I would suggest the standard Whelan. Why? cheaper dies, eaysier to buy/form brass, more bullets available and the animals will die just the same.

I had a 35 Whelen (not AI) and I have a 9.3x62. A Whelen is easier to feed but that may change. Of the several improved Whelens, at least one lets you use factory ammo safely. If I had to use one, I'd pick it, but I'd need a very good reason not to pick the regular Whelen.

If you build a custom Whelen, consider a 1:14 or 1:12 twist. Factory Whelens use 1:16. That's fine for 200 grain bullets, but it's a little slow for best results with a 250, and may not work at all with the 280 and 300-gr bullets that make more sense for huge animals.

Either way, search these pages for information on both cartridges and the 338-06. All are superb and would work in your BLR.

Hope this helps, Okie John.

If you have a specific chance to snatch a used rifle at a good price, do it - both are fine chamberings.

If one were to build a new gun altogether, one would have to be braindead to use the .35 Whelen AI. It would be halfway the same as inventing a 7,62 x 64 wildcat when one could use the .30-06.

Carcano

9.3x62 without a doubt

I like the gentle recoil and the smashing hitting power, I am using the speer 270 gr bullets and they work well for what I shoot.

On the other hand Johan, I have to concede that there always will be charming eccentrics who'll have their custom gun chambered, e.g. for the 8x63 Swedish, 7,92x61 Norwegian or 8x59 RB Breda - just for the outlandish fun of it . Even though are many cartridges of equal performance that would be a lot more accessible and reasonable.

Carcano

I was reading on another forum about a guy who built a BLR in a 9.3 for a saddle gun and the idea stuck. Having spent more than a few days on a horse I have gained an appreciation of thin carbines in scabbards.

For years I have packed a Mod 71 but bad eyes require a scope and this seemed like a good idea for the winter. The ballistics of the 9.3 and the Whelan are so close as to be mute but the 35AI seems to be recommended because of headspacing problems on the regular Whelan.

Thanks for the input. Has anybody out there done a bigger caliber on the BLR?

a) Could you write proper English instead of abbreviations ?

b) The Winchester 1895 Russian Musket has often been rebarrelled (or rebored) for the 9,3 x 53 R, which is loaded by Sako as a factory cartridge. So what ?

Carcano

[ 09-29-2003, 00:03: Message edited by: carcano91 ]

Gator1,

Take a look at the ZHAT web site. Fred has taken the 9.3x62 case and necked it up to .375 and .411 and put it in a lever gun.

The .375 Hawk is an excellent cartridge if you are making your own shells.

Snapper

Headspace problems in the 35 Whelen are rare. Try to bear these things in mind as you read or hear about them:
1. Many early 35 Whelens were built on unsuitable actions by gunsmiths with a limited grasp of what they were doing for customers with a limited grasp of how to load for them. Some were always wrong and others were ruined by improper use. In both cases, the cartridge got the blame.
2. The 400 Whelen was surrounded by stories of headspace problems, but I read an article in The Accurate Rifle not long ago by a guy who dug up the original dimensions and solved the problem--at least in his rifle. Again, folks misunderstood what they had and neither cut chambers nor loaded for it properly.
3. It's easy to set back the shoulder of a 35 REMINGTON if you're not careful. (Yes, you can do it on a Whelen, but it's much harder.)

With these three preconditions, it just takes a few loud, half-bright drunks in a deer camp to create rumors that last for decades.

I mentioned earlier about factories using 1:16 twist barrels. They also load 35 Whelen ammo on the light side, and Remington 35 Whelen brass tends to weigh substantially more than Remington 30-06 brass. Taken together, I think these things--slow twist, underloaded ammo, extra-strength brass--show that the factories are aware of the problems with the 35 Whelen, and are keeping a very close eye on how they load for it, including making darned sure the headspace is where it belongs.

If you start with factory 35 Whelen brass or ammo and then load carefully, I think you'll have no problems. I also think you'll find that the 35 Whelen is a great cartridge that's gotten a bum rap for all the wrong reasons. And if you start with a standard Whelen and don't like it, you can get it punched out to AI.

Hope this helps, Okie John.

sdgunslinger

I did a quick check, and it seems like the only maker of 35 whelen is Federal. Who else makes ammo?????

I guess the reason for not having any compenents in more fun calibers is that the owner of there rifles get their stuff by ordering from the bigger suppliers, internet??

I have seen two boxes of ammo in Sweden for the 35 whelen, Swede's who fancy 35's takes the 358 norma mag

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Remington has been peddling a 200gr and a 250gr load for the Whelen for about 15 years now. Both are pointed bullets. These loads are widely available and quite affordable here in the States.

9.3

Hey Gator1,

I had a .35 Whelen built on a VZ 24 action. The chamber was long throated to accomodate the larger bullets, specifically, the 300 gr. Woodleigh. The barrel is a 27" Shilen #4 contour.

As it turns out, the 280 gr. Swift shoots best. I use a healthy load of RL15 and get an average of 2,500+ fps. (My gunsmith said that the heavier bullet and longer barrel probably allow for more complete combustion of the powder.) There are no pressure signs at temperatures below 50 degrees. When the temperature rises much above 60 degrees I start blowing primers.

With the weight of the rifle, the 280 gr. bullets recoil like a 220 gr. (I also have a Oberndorf style stock and the recoil comes straight back. Almost no jump.)

Anyhow, if you don't mind a rifle that is a little heavy, I'd recommend a similar setup. A 280 gr. bullet at 2500+ is an extreemly powerful load. And you don't even have to form the cases.

Good luck, you have an enjoyable decision to make,

Smoker*

As long as you're doing a 35 on the BLR long action, why not the 358 Norma mag? I realise the problems with supplies, but I shoot most of the calibers mentioned in the above posts, and it's not that tough. Or if you really want the factory ammo to be easy, do one in 338 Win Mag, which you can buy pretty much anywhere. - Dan

Hey dan belisle,

That .358 Norma would be a great rifle! You could by the .338 cases and run them over an expander plug. Fantastic idea...

Smoker*

___________________________________________________
Never pee in a man's face unless his beard is on fire.

I had a 35 whelen ai, before having it re-chambered to 350 Rigby.

I wouldn't go the AI route again, fireforming brass added time and exspense as well as the more exspensive dies. At the same pressure, the AI will provide maybe 50 fps more than the std whelen, the speed gain on top of that claimed by ackley fans is from running at high pressures.

I love the 35 bore, great for shooting small game 150-180 gr pistol bullets at 1200-1700 fps, or full patch 250 gr loads @ 2400-2500 fps.

The 9.3X62 is also an outstanding round. There aren't nearly as many choices in componet bullets, but, there are certainly enough to make it an outstanding hunting round. The biggest benefit I see in the 9.3X62 is a supply of factory rifles from CZ, whereas the whelen is a custom only affair.

You'll be happy with either one.

Thanks for the advice guys. I want a bigger bullet with out the Magnum recoil. This is not a longrange rifle but out to 200 yards max.

As I get older I see less and less need for longrange shooting ahd heavy recoiling rifles. When the need does arise I have a 340WM to pick up.

I am leaning towards the 9.3x62 because I have a 9.3x74R and like the idea of equal trajectory and same components.

Does anyone know of a smith that works on the BLRs?

How about a .416 Taylor on a BLR (.338 win mag necked up to .416) now that would amke a fine lever rifle caliber You could load it down a tad to help with recoil and speer have a 350 gr .416 bullet which would be ideal for smaller stuff.

Gator 1

I considered the AI when I had my Whelen built but felt ( for some of the reasons mentioned above ) that it just wasn't worth it. No flys on the standard Whelen.

I have shot the Whelen and the 9.3x62 and hunted with both..I like the 9.3x62 the best and it has a bit more shoulder than the 375 Scovill, a caliber I see little use for as the difference in a 9.3 and a 375 is so little its hardly worth the effort IMO.....

I had a similar question about a year ago--35 Whelen or 9.3 x 62? My preference was a bolt rifle, but an 1895 repro in 9.3 x 62 would be MONDO COOL too. Not wanting to wait around for a custom gun, the available 35 Whelen was a Ruger 77 stainless/plastic ugly stock or the CZ-550 with blue steel and walnut. First vote for the CZ

There's not a whole lotta difference between real-world downrange ballistics of the 35 Whelen or the 9.3 x 62. The 9.3 might be a little bit faster with a given bullet weight--maybe. Call it even.

Much is made of the 35 Whelen's ability to use .357 pistol bullets for varminting. Well, Hornady makes a .365" bullet for the 9 x 18 Makarov, and I used these to fire-form neck-expanded 35 Whelen brass into 9.3 x 62 cases--2900 to 3000 FPS. Many of these rounds got fired at ground squirrels and a few jackrabbits, and the terminal results were very much like a 22-250. A real rat flattener. Even results here also, but still Advantage/9.3 x 62.

My reason for a rifle of this type was two-fold.......a nasty-critter caliber that could also do good work with cast bullets. The 35 Whelen has a PROVEN track record with the poured projectiles, and the 1-16" twist that serves it poorly with heavy jacketed bullets makes up for that failing with the good work it can do with the "poor man's solids". This pretty much evens the score between the two calibers.

I chose the 9.3 x 62 largely because of its reputation in Africa and the glowing real-world commentary from this board and a few other sources. I chose the CZ-550 over the Tikka because I didn't want to wait 6-12 months to get the rifle. The CZ has turned out to be a very fine acquisition--it shoots cast bullets VERY well with its 1-14" twist and .007" groove depth/6 land Mauser "2/1" groove profile, and needs a scope to truly evaluate its accuracy with the jacketed bullets. EVERY bullet I've tried so far--jacketed or cast--does about as well as I can do with open sights at 100 yards--1-1/4" to 1-1/2". In answer to Gator's question about trajectory--this caliber will do very well to 200 yards, and I suspect it would be a 250 yard "point blank" shooter with the 270 Speers or the 286 Nosler Partitions. I haven't mounted a scope to assess that first-hand, however.

Do you guys think the 9.3x62 would be a good alternative to the 338 Win mag for big bears in Alaska? I am talking about both a dedicated bear rifle and also as a good all rounder which carry's enough punch for bears in a self defence situation...

Regards,

Pete

If one already has the rifle, why not use it on bears. One would not be undergunned.

If one were to acquire a new one for this purpose, the 9,3x64 or 9,5x66 SEvH or 9,3x70 would be preferable choices, methinks.

Carcano

Conley precision offers 9.3x62 ammo with the 286 Nosler at 2500 fps (they claim) - that translates to just a tad under 4000 ft/lbs. Also, according to the Barnes manual, the 286 gr. X-bullet can be driven to 2512 fps (they claim). The 9.3x62 makes a bigger hole than a 338 WM, and you've got 6 rounds instead of 4. Recoil is about the same.

I've decided on the 9.3. I have a new aluminum action 270 to use and the whole rifle with a 1x4 or similiar Leupold should weigh in at less than 8 pounds when done. I see two barrel twists mentioned, 1-12 and 1-14, is their that much differance? I would normally shoot the 286 or the 320 Woodlieghs.

This is a rifle for the Canadian Rockies and Alaska. I think that it would be as good as a 338 if not better with the 320 gr. bullet for 'emergency use'. I do like the idea of using cast bullets for small game and plinking though.

Gator for mucking about you can also try the 270 gr speers, they work really well on thin skinned aussie stuff.

The woodleigh's should give you great results, there is also a 286 gr protected point woodleigh availble now in 9.3

Hey Gator1,

You said you were interested in using heavier bullets. Whether having a Whelen built or the 9.3 I have a suggestion. Have the rifle long-throated. That way you will give up nothing in case capacity.

I had my Whelen built so that it would handle heavy bullets and get as much out of cartridge as can be expected. I wears a 27" Shilen barrel. The data I collected a couple years ago shows that with a 280 gr. Swift I was getting 2,547 fps and with the 310 gr. Woodleigh I was getting 2,200+ fps. The powder I was using was RL-15. My gunsmiths said that it appears I am able to get that velocity because of the longer barrel and having the chamber long-throated.

I was getting sub-MOA for my 5 shot groups with the Swift. I have chosen the Swift as my primary bullet because of the velocity and accuracy. I use only peep sights but if I were using a scope I could probably tighten my goups up a little.

Below, I have listed the URLs of some of the pictures I had taken of the rifle. It really is a great rifle.

Hope this helps in your decision making.

Good shooting,

Smoker*

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=63937&sort=7&thecat=544&password=

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=63940&sort=7&thecat=544&password=

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=63942&sort=7&thecat=998&password=

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=63941&sort=7&thecat=998&password=

Smoker,

that rifle of yours looks awsome.

Thanks for the pic links.

Hey PC,

Thanks. The rifle shoots very well, too.

Good shooting,

Smoker*

I bought the CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62 for bear protection and for its potential as a cast bullet rifle. The local black bears are infused with thoroughly bad attitudes, and having the CZ along in the back country is comforting. I don't notice the weight at all in bear country.

I have a bias towards the 35 Whelan AI, since I own one.

I think the AI version handles higher pressures better than the standard 35 Whelan, for the reasons Ackley published.

(For the record I don't think the increased capacity of the reformed AI brass is responsible for higher velocities....you get higher velocities from the higher pressures due to hot loads)

But the nice thing about the AI, is that if you somehow get seperated from your handloads, you can run into a decent sporting goods store and use the off the shelf 35 Whelan ammo.

And I am one of those people who uses 357 pistol bullets for plinking and fireforming.
They are deadly on coyote.

The 250 grain bullets (Swift) have been my main fodder, but I keep 275 grainers on hand too (just haven't shot anything with the heavier bullets yet).