Elk went back to dying from .270's shortly after Elmer Keith's death.

quote:

There isn't a hill of beans difference between a .270W and a .30-06

Jack (you all know Jack, right?) called the 270, 280, and 30-06, 'the three sisters'. I'd happily hunt elk with any of the three in an ACCURATE rifle.

Even though an ACCURATE 338WM or 375Ruger would trump them, they are certainly good elk cartridges.
Get the tag and the time. then I'd take anything from a 270 to a 416.

quote:

Originally posted by squeezenhope:
Elk went back to dying from .270's shortly after Elmer Keith's death.

like wise too , African game started to go down with less caliber than .338cal.

Reading this forum reminds me of the endless debate in the UK over whether the 243 is adequate for big red stags - yes it is provided bullet goes in the right place.

Larry Sellers: Thanks for answering. You certainly are entitled to your stipulations, I just don't get it and will probably not ever. We will have to agree to disagree on this one I guess. Maybe If I decide to come hunt with you I'll have an excuse to buy a .300 Blackout upper for my AR.

There is no question the 270 Winchester is an EXPERTS only cartridge, that's why I shoot one!! LOL! After all, if I was successful killing anything, let alone an elk with a 270 Winchester I must be SUPERMAN, HA!!

Jerry

LOL! I just lost any respect I had for whomever approved this being in their manual. Next we will see it quoted as it being an experts cartridge, soon to become, "only" for experts.[/QUOTE]

The next elk I kill will be with my .257 Roberts.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
The next elk I kill will be with my .257 Roberts.

Snell - You better hide behing your sofa after that one!!! By the way did you get an elk tag up there this year? Didn't draw a thing here in New Mexico.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
The next elk I kill will be with my .257 Roberts.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Snell - You better hide behing your sofa after that one!!! By the way did you get an elk tag up there this year? Didn't draw a thing here in New Mexico.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
The next elk I kill will be with my .257 Roberts.

Jemez Mountains, New Mexico Isn't that tribal land? Looks like 11,000 feet also. Do you use titanium O2 bottles?

quote:

Originally posted by DUKE NUKEM:

Jemez Mountains, New Mexico Isn't that tribal land? Looks like 11,000 feet also. Do you use titanium O2 bottles?

There is tons of public ground in the Jemez Mountains. The tops are in 11,000 range but that is just the tops. It's some of the most beautiful country you can imagine from deep canyons to parks to snow covered peaks.

The Jemez is one of my all time favorite areas.

Duke - Most of the Jemez Mountains are within the Santa Fe National Forest, one Wilderness area, the Valles Caldera National Preserve are also included. There is the Jemez Indian Reservation to the South, but not much of it is in elk country.

The tallest peak, Redondo is on the Valles Caldera National Preserve and is over 11,000 feet. I live at 8,500 an look straight across at Redondo. Have quite a few elk around the house in the Winter, but have all headed for higher parts now.

Hunters from lower elevations are forewarned of the altitudes here and so far none of come down with atltitude sickness or have needed oxygen. I always suggest that hunters arrive a day or two early to acclimate to the ele. Most elk are found in the 6,500 to 8,500 elevation range. Have a great day.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by DUKE NUKEM:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Snell - You better hide behing your sofa after that one!!! By the way did you get an elk tag up there this year? Didn't draw a thing here in New Mexico.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
The next elk I kill will be with my .257 Roberts.

Jemez Mountains, New Mexico Isn't that tribal land? Looks like 11,000 feet also. Do you use titanium O2 bottles?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Snell - You better hide behing your sofa after that one!!! By the way did you get an elk tag up there this year? Didn't draw a thing here in New Mexico.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member
QUOTE]

Hey Larry
Our drawing results aren't out yet for public drawing or landowners vouchers, about another month to wait!
This time of year I'm on edge waiting for those results!!
I only applied for the necessities:
Deer, Elk, Antelope, Bear, Desert Bighorns, Moose.....

Good luck in the draw, hope you at least get the necessary ones.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Snell - You better hide behing your sofa after that one!!! By the way did you get an elk tag up there this year? Didn't draw a thing here in New Mexico.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member
QUOTE]

Hey Larry
Our drawing results aren't out yet for public drawing or landowners vouchers, about another month to wait!
This time of year I'm on edge waiting for those results!!
I only applied for the necessities:
Deer, Elk, Antelope, Bear, Desert Bighorns, Moose.....

quote:

Yes I do and nobody has complained and the success factor with this requirement has been great. Everyone is made aware in advance so if they don't agree or like it then it's up to them whether they choose to hunt here or not. Quite simple really

seems like a pretty nonchalant attitude towards clients.

Nope, just telling it like it is and the clients like it that way. Honest, upfront, straightforward. Have a great day.

Larry Sellers
SCi Life Member

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by silvertip1:

quote:

Yes I do and nobody has complained and the success factor with this requirement has been great. Everyone is made aware in advance so if they don't agree or like it then it's up to them whether they choose to hunt here or not. Quite simple really

seems like a pretty nonchalant attitude towards clients.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Nope, just telling it like it is and the clients like it that way. Honest, upfront, straightforward. Have a great day.

Larry Sellers
SCi Life Member

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by silvertip1:

quote:

Yes I do and nobody has complained and the success factor with this requirement has been great. Everyone is made aware in advance so if they don't agree or like it then it's up to them whether they choose to hunt here or not. Quite simple really

seems like a pretty nonchalant attitude towards clients.

No, it's complete and total lack of common sense. In my experience the guy that shows up with a well worn 270 to hunt Elk with is the last guy you need to worry about.

What have YOU personally taken elk with?

To cast a friendly light on the conversation. I have yet to get and Elk. Somewhere near a couple dozen huge Muley's (30-06)and a half dozen or so Antelope (.243) though.
Ick! I'll never eat antelope again. I have had Elk meat most of my younger years.

A big bull Elk DWARFS any "huge" Mule Deer.

Chuck your'e right about the elk being much larger than the biggest mule deer. But as I said earlier, the biggest bull I killed a 6X6 going over an estimated 900lbs, shot with a 270 Winchester. I smoked his butt!!

Also, as to an outfitter telling me what cartridge I was going to shoot on less than dangerous game, I won't book with him. It is my hunt, and I'll shoot what I want, especially if I am paying the bucks these guys want now days!!

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Chuck your'e right about the elk being much larger than the biggest mule deer. But as I said earlier, the biggest bull I killed a 6X6 going over an estimated 900lbs, shot with a 270 Winchester. I smoked his butt!!

Also, as to an outfitter telling me what cartridge I was going to shoot on less than dangerous game, I won't book with him. It is my hunt, and I'll shoot what I want, especially if I am paying the bucks these guys want now days!!

Jerry

You don't have to convince me an elk can be taken cleanly with a 270. This bull was taken at a long ways with a 270 and the above Elk with a 280 AI.

Nice, good for you Chuck.

Regards

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Duke - Most of the Jemez Mountains are within the Santa Fe National Forest, one Wilderness area, the Valles Caldera National Preserve are also included. There is the Jemez Indian Reservation to the South, but not much of it is in elk country.

The tallest peak, Redondo is on the Valles Caldera National Preserve and is over 11,000 feet. I live at 8,500 an look straight across at Redondo. Have quite a few elk around the house in the Winter, but have all headed for higher parts now.

Hunters from lower elevations are forewarned of the altitudes here and so far none of come down with atltitude sickness or have needed oxygen. I always suggest that hunters arrive a day or two early to acclimate to the ele. Most elk are found in the 6,500 to 8,500 elevation range. Have a great day.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by DUKE NUKEM:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Snell - You better hide behing your sofa after that one!!! By the way did you get an elk tag up there this year? Didn't draw a thing here in New Mexico.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
The next elk I kill will be with my .257 Roberts.

Jemez Mountains, New Mexico Isn't that tribal land? Looks like 11,000 feet also. Do you use titanium O2 bottles?

PM sent with my phone number if you didn't already have it.

Thanks for sharing the pics Chuck.

Interesting thread... again.
Every time elk killing comes up the same argument ensues; one faction believes a magnum is required, and the other, usually more experienced elk hunters BTW, know the .270 and similar rounds kill elk with aplomb.
I guided and outfitted for almost 3 decades. I preferred my clients show up with their .270's and '06's. Usually they could shoot them well and that's what kills elk, good shot placement.
I agree with the earlier poster questioning the statement about shooting a big magnum as rationale for taking a "texas heart shot". This is a poor shot and should be avoided unless one has no choice when securing an already wounded animal.
My experience has been most hunters don't shoot particularly well with a magnum. It is my opinion that for non-dangerous game the advantage of a magnum is increased range, but again most hunters don't shoot one well enough to realize that potential.
I would go so far as to opine that the average hunter doesn't shoot well enough to realize the potential of the 270 anyway.

Cobrad
Very well said!
I completely agree.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Cobrad
Very well said!
I completely agree.

That was very well said.

I have a friend who used to guide on the King Ranch for trophy white-tail and Nilgai.
He told me several times that when a client would arrive with a 7mm Rem. Mag. all of the guides would cringe. He claimed they had far more wounded deer with a 7mag. than with any 270 or '06 for the same reasons as stated by Cobrad.

The .270 is a good enough open country 300 yard caliber IMO and I'm not so sure that doesn't apply to any caliber.

I hunt in Idahos black timber because I live there and the last half dozed elk I've shot were Texas heart shots. I used my .338, 9.3x62 or 375 and heavy bullets and those calibers always stuck their nose in the pine cones..

Idaho has not one inch of flat ground that I have found, its way up or way, way down, and I have tracked for hours trying to find and kill somebodys elses elk that took a good hit and went down hill and its hell to recover them if you do find them. I believe it mostly depends on where you hunt and where you place your bullet. If you hunt some places on certain draw hunts a 30-30 or 250 Savage is plenty of gun. If recoil is an issue then for sure don't use the big bores. Shoot what you shoot best is always the rule IMO.

My personal self rule is that I "should" use a caliber/bullet combination that will shoot through or almost through (stopping under the off sids skin)of the animal I am hunting from any angle. I apply this to trophy hunting as a rule. On a meat hunt, I usually shoot them in the head or neck, and I get close, so its not as critical.

I think common since should determine the caliber you choose. Lots of elk are wounded each year according to the Idaho Game and Fish.

Cobrad & Ray: Intelligent posts. While I am a proponent of the 270 Winchester, on MOST any game here in the states, I have to agree with Ray, under the conditions of which he spoke.

I have found dead elk here in Arizona, that have been shot then run off and not been recovered. Really sad!

There has always been a lot of elk hunting experience shown in these threads, and they are appreciated by me. I guess the jist of it all, is shoot the rifle/cartridge, that allows you to place the shot where it needs to be, and you'll be successful.

Widemansheil!!

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:


I have found dead elk here in Arizona, that have been shot then run off and not been recovered. Really sad!

So when you find a dead Elk your assumption is that it was not shot with a large enough caliber for the job?
I've never been in a situation where large caliber made up for poor shooting.

So when you find a dead Elk your assumption is that it was not shot with a large enough caliber for the job?
I've never been in a situation where large caliber made up for poor shooting.[/QUOTE]

I don't know were you got that idea from my posts. I am a 270 proponent!! I attribute any lost elk to poor shooting, or taking a shot one should not take. Only the shooter knows their capabilities, or should know, magnums etc. won't make up for a lack of skill or discipline.

Regards

Jerry

Okay Jerry
I misunderstood.

Thanks!!

I think an important consideration is if it is a guided hunt and will there be horses. I have seen some elk wounded go into canyons you could never have gotten the elk out of without horses. If a do it yourself hunt, definitely shoot the biggest gun you shoot well. Everyone who has knocked one down on the spot has a strong pro opinion. Those who have lost one keep quiet. An elk shot through one lung by a quartering shot can lead you on quite a chase! If you decide to use your 270, I would suggest Swift or North Fork 150 grain bullets. I have seen a lot of 300 mags and 338s in the hands of experienced elk hunters for what its worth.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
I think an important consideration is if it is a guided hunt and will there be horses. I have seen some elk wounded go into canyons you could never have gotten the elk out of without horses. If a do it yourself hunt, definitely shoot the biggest gun you shoot well. Everyone who has knocked one down on the spot has a strong pro opinion. Those who have lost one keep quiet. An elk shot through one lung by a quartering shot can lead you on quite a chase! If you decide to use your 270, I would suggest Swift or North Fork 150 grain bullets. I have seen a lot of 300 mags and 338s in the hands of experienced elk hunters for what its worth.

Over 40 years of elk hunting I've seen a lot more 30-06s, 270s, 7mm Mausers and oh my God 30-30s than 300 or 338 Mags. I used to kill elk with a 243 (105g Speer spitzers at 3000 fps) before I found a grizzly bear sitting on my last quarter as I hiked back to it. When I guided in the late 60s and early to mid 70s we use to groan when someone brought a 300 Weatherby (typically they were from CA or NY). Things have changed and a lot more hunters can shoot them well now.

Hmmm, A 243 is OK for a 900 pound elk but not for a 400 pound bear. In "todays" elk camp I still believe the larger bore guns are gaining popularity. Fifty years ago when I started hunting an 06 was king. I have seen a couple elk outfitters who used a 243 as their personal gun but would only take neck shots. I could never understand that logic. I feel we have a responsibility to humanely as possible kill the animal we hunt. To me that is using an adequate gun and to become proficient with it. A hunter that does not practice is going to be a lousy shot with a 270 or a 338.
In Africa if you draw blood, you bought it. If a wounded elk cost you $6K and concluded your hunt, I think the small caliber crowd might rethink their choices.
I grew up reading O'Connor and love the 270. I have a safe full of 270s, 30/06s and 7x57s. They are my favorite rifles but not ideal IMHO for elk.
If I suddenly found myself rifleless, I would asap have a 338/06 built. To me it it an ideal moderate recoil high performance elk rifle.

The larger calibers with the right bullet and placement kill more quickly if the client can shoot them. I'd still bring my 270 except that I gave it to my son. I did buy a used 270 Weatherby last year as my 11 lb 500 Jeffery was a little heavy at 11,000 feet for this old man with a heart condition.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
The larger calibers with the right bullet and placement kill more quickly if the client can shoot them. I'd still bring my 270 except that I gave it to my son. I did buy a used 270 Weatherby last year as my 11 lb 500 Jeffery was a little heavy at 11,000 feet for this old man with a heart condition.

I'm with you on using a 270Win.

That 11000 feet is also why they make little 6.5-lb Tikka 338WinMags.

I have hunted Africa with 270 caliber rifles for a number of years.

I must have shot several hundred heads of game animals with them.

They range from the klipspringer all the way to eland.

Range varied from 20 yards to over 500 yards.

The 270 always delivered.

The most important fact is to use quality bullets, and place your bullet in t5he right place.

Bullets we used were Barnes X 130 grains, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws 140 grains, and Jensen 150 grains.

There is no way we could tell you that any of the above bullets performed better than the others.