I have been considering an article for African Hunter on what cartridges from Europe American gun makers should pick up in their lines.

The big American makers have been beavering away either "inventing" new short, fat cartridges, or from time to time bringing a wildcat into their offerings. Their real reason is to sell more of their rifles of course.

It occurs to me that there are a lot of cartidges out there that they could pick-up from Europe, and not have to spend the big bucks to develop a new cartridge themselves.

I was thinking that cartridges such as the 6.5X68, 8X68S, 8X60, 9.3X62 and 9.3X64 would all be good choices.

What do you think and why?

jim dodd
Field Correspondent
African Hunter
http://www.african-hunter.com

9.3X62 I don't think the others would really catch on, the 6.5 and 8's just aren't that popular in the US, since the domesticly similar offerings cover them as well.

But, the traveling hunter looking for a moderately recoiling heavy doesn't have a domestic offering in 9.3X62. Also, for hog hunting, I think it would be an outstanding choice.

Brenneke pretty much figured out that you could hunt all the world's game with a 7x64 and a 9.3x64.

I'd go for pretty much any 9,3 or 8mm, but then again they tend to consider me a little weird.
As much of a sacrilege as this is going to sound to our Finnish members, I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of a Marlin 95 in 9,3x53R.

The 8X68 would be interesting. We have good bullets over 200gr available now, a good elk getter. The 9.3's would be very popular among the woods hunters as well. I think the 7X64 is redundant, too much like the .280.

I like the 8x68S. Put it in a 27 inch barrel.

I built a 9.3x62 a couple of years ago for a Dark Timber Roosevelt Elk Hunter. 22 inch barrel. A very, very effective rifle and cartridge combination for the big Roosevelt Bulls here in the Pacific NW Rain Forests. Those RWS bullets sure impressed me.

Bring back the 9.3x70. Been thinking about having Dave Kiff grinding a reamer for this one and using a M99 action. Wolfe made one a year or two ago and had an article in Hatari Times.

And the 11.2x72 Schuler, but this time without the rebated rim.

I am ready to build them if someone wants to finance the projects.

We are entering a Platinum age of custom guns: Excellent bullets, custom brass makers, and an incredible number of suitable actions now being produced, and even better actions will soon be available, like the big Montana PH action and the now in design stage Williams actions.

[ 04-05-2003, 07:27: Message edited by: John Ricks ]

Im clearly in a minority group on this subject and cant speak for the rest of the US, but personally I would like to have a 9X57. I think it would be very similar to a 358 Win but a natural for a Mauser action.

John Ricks

I think Harald Wolf has the rifle for sale if you are interested. It is a take down too

/ JOHAN

Another vote for the 8X68S....

I have and use a 6.5x68 a 8x68S and a 9.3x64.The 6.5 is very similar in performance to a 264 Win.It makes an excellent antelope and long range deer rifle.We all know how popular the 264 is right now .... the 6.5x68 would meet the same fate. The 8x68S and the 9.3x64 are both very usefull cartridges in North America as is the 9.3x62. The 9.3 x62 is very similar to the 35 whelan.While it is an excellent game calibre the Whelan doesn't seem to be setting any sales records. The 8x68S will do anything a 300 mag or a 338 will do but I can't see everyone selling their 300's or 338's just to get an 8mm. The 9.3x64 has the power of a 375H&H in std length case with NO belt that feeds so smooth.It would make one of the best calibres for large bears moose elk and even wild boar but like the 375 it is really a little much for deer. If there IS a gap in the North American cartridge lineup it would be in the 9.3x64's area. There are other excellent metric calibres such as the 7x64. Same ballistics as the 270 & 280.Can't see it having much of a chance. It would nice to see some of these calibres offered on a special order basis with some factory ammunition (or at least some brass)but I wouldn't hold my breath on that .So if you want an American made rifle in a metric cal you buy a rifle and have it re-barreled.

I like the idea.

The 9.3x62. It's a superb round for dangerous and medium game in North America. It falls in between the factory 35 Whelen and the 375 H&H, hitting hard up close and reaching out enough for most North American hunting. Its only real American competitor is the 35 Whelen, which is crippled by weak factory ammo and the scarcity of CRF factory rifles. The 9.3x62 has none of these problems, but rifles and ammo are only made in Europe.

Remchester has a golden opportunity so sell into this niche. But to do it, they have to build CRF rifles and load the right ammo; a premium 286 load would set it apart from the 338 and the 35 Whelen. Then Remchester has to send writers to hunt medium and dangerous animals with it, not just deer or antelope.

Finally, you might write an article on how US gun makers have lost touch with their customers. I never would have looked at a CZ if USRAC made a M-70 in 358, 35 Whelen or 9.3x62, but now I have a 550 in 9.3x62 and I love it. USRAC is going to have to jump through some serious hoops to regain the #1 slot on my list.

Hope this helps, Okie John.

I have to toss in another vote for 9.3x62.I`ve had my switch barreled mauser barrel on so long,it doesn`t remember the other calibers anymore.hard hitting AND fun to shoot,how can anything beat that?and I used to think my little 6.5x55 was so sweet.times have changed.

Years ago I would have like the 68 mm Shulers if they had been easy to get here but today there are so many others. So while the 9.3 X 62 is up at bat around here I am not that interested. The case will not even hold 60 grs of powder!

But that's just my opinion. If I were a gun mfg I would be interested. The ammo is already made up. Run some off. What the heck.

Another vote for the 9.3x62 but hey I am waiting on a cz 550 in 9.3x62 and ther my favourite brand of rifles at the moment.

I think if you own a .375 you would not need a 9.3x64 but a 9.3x62 could serve a a more useful purpose for the shooter who already has a .375 H&H
I intend to load mine with 232 or 250 gr bullets and hope to use it for pigs under the spotlight in the future. The .375 with 300 gr bullets from the car window might be a little to much while the 9.3 has the recoil qualitys of a 30/06 with some of the smack down power of the .375 H&H.

jim,write about the 9.3x62, 64 type.But the one that gets my attention is the one Wolf built and chamber in 9.3x70

Gentlemen

David Tooley has built several wildcats on the 8X68 case and they are really interesting.

On the 9,3X64 case there have been a few wildcats made by Fred Huntington and Tom Burgess.

It would be great if any of thoose were picked up by any of the big ones. All these calibers en vouge right now since they lack belt

the 9,3X70 has only one trouble, I don't have one

/ JOHAN

Curtis,

I stand corrected.

None of these rimless German cartridges ever got off the ground due to the circumstances of war.

It's too bad in a way as then we may have avoided the belted situation.

Another loss is the Schutzen match with the food, good cheer and families there and the ladies all dressed up in ethnic clothing. These are lot more fun in many ways than laying on our bellies with a sling shutting off the circulation.

Not a medium but I think the 6x45 would find a real niche for kids and the recoil-shy, while meeting many states' 6mm minimum for big game.

We're trying to recruit new hunters but most of the guns we give them seem to be noisy, short-barreled high-velocity numbers ...

Gents,

I'm all for things that sell rifles and keep the manufacturers afloat. It seems quite difficult to make any money producing arms here in America as witnessed by the myriad company closings, sales, mergers, and such, unless you're a genius and your name is William Ruger or John Browning. Of course, any caliber introduction must be accompanied by a massive and costly ammunition introduction if there is to be any hope of commercial success. Most guys will not buy what they cannot load with common ammo that doesn't break their banks. I guess I'm not in the 'most guys' category given that I just bought a CZ in 9.3x62.

I once read here someone mocking the 35 Whelen, wondering why anyone would choose such an obscure round over the 'superior' and common 9.3x62. Well, maybe in your neighborhood. But here in central Michigan where I live, only one store had anybody that ever heard of 9.3x62, and they had only one load on the shelf - Norma 232 grain, at over $55 USD per 20 rds! I'm here to tell you, nobody in my neighborhood would pay that! Conversely, I can buy 35 Whelen ammo at almost every mom-n-pop convenience store in my area that sells ammo, and for about $20 per 20. I've owned 3 Whelens, and I can attest to their effectiveness on game. I'm sure the 9.3x62 will prove effective as well, maybe even more so. But the Whelen is definitely not obscure around here, and I think it is one heck of a good round. The phrase "Winchester model 70 in 35 Whelen" gives me wood.

Live well.

The 9.3x70 is easily reproducable, Wolfe has a photo of the original drawing in one of the past issues of Hatari Times. Anyone really interested, give me an email. Easy task to have a reamer ground and chamber up a barrel.

This cartridge is really interesting, designed in 1936 or so, uses 404 Jeffery as basic brass,(Gee, anyone heard of using 404 brass for the basis of powerful cartridges??), so it looks like the designers were far, far ahead of their times.

Goering's rifle is also pictured, chambered in 9.3x70.

Many good things in the sporting arms world were lost in the WWII conflict, this cartridge was one.

8.15X46R for old schutzen rifles. these are not even made much in europe, and are so dear that the profit margin could be quite workable.

Of course, we would only but enough to get our brass for reloading....

The 8.15 X 46R is easily made from 30/30 cases. I have a Aydt Schuetzen in that caliber with RCBS dies etc.