I see that Weatherby is offering the Vanguard (Howa) in 300 Weatherby, but it's a 24" barrel. Wouldn't this cartridge almost require a 26" barrel to see its potential? Would a guy be better off with a 300 WinMag if limited to 24" of barrel? Just curious to see opinions on this, and real chronograph numbers would be great...

Right on captain---26 inch or more to get the most out of such a fine cartridge. In my opinion the .300 win. mag. will never come close to the weatherby no matter what you do for it.

For the Weatherby, Win Mag, and RUM; go 26".

If you had to go with 24" barrel and a 30 caliber mag; I'd good WSM first, then 300 Win Mag.

The other posters are right, the 300 Weatherby magnum really needs that 26 inches of barrel length to excell.

I own a Remington Model 700 Classic chambered in 300 Weatherby Magnum and it has a 24 inch barrel.

I have always been a little dissapointed in the velocities in this rifle. Don't get me wrong I would never consider getting rid of it, I like it, and besides it was a gift.

In my rifle, real world velocities are about 3150 for 180 grain bullets and 3250 for Barnes
168 grain TSX bullets.

Asked another way, even though it's not running at all it's potential, does the 300 Weatherby still outrun the 300 Win at 24" of barrel? Or do all you get is more blast and recoil without the extra velocity?

I'm looking to purchase a .30 magnum of some kind here shortly, so I'm looking at all the offerings and weighing cartridges and configurations. The Vanguard offers both chambers, but sticks with the same 24" barrel for both - cost reasons I'm sure. I figure why not go with the 300 Weatherby for the same money, if there is any performance to be gained.

I would say that all things equal it will still outrun the 300 win, but not by much.

I also have a 24" barreled Weatherby mag, an old South Gate FN mauser. The trick is to use a (relatively) fast burning powder, like H4350. With 200g bullets it gives solidly over 2800 fps and is relatively tame to shoot. I dont think I'd ever get advertised wby mag velocities in this rifle, but with a slower powder it would probably edge out most win mag velocities in the same barrel length. As you mentioned the cost would likely be more blast.

I had a Vanguard with a 24” barrel about 4 years back and loved that gun. I used with Barns 180gr TSX BT and using the IMR 7828 SSC in a Remington case and using a magnum primer. In their loading book it claims to go 3145fps with a 84.0gr charge, I used 83.5grs gave me best accuracy 1.55” at 200 yards but what really impressed me was that with a 24” barrel I was getting 3260fps !!!
I got rid of it shortly after I was given a MK5 Accumark and with the same loads I only gained 31fps with the 2” longer barrel, don’t get me wrong the MK5 is a awesome gun but to get a 300 Weatherby Mag for a for price of $599 MSRP for the new VS2 thinking of getting another one for that price

I posted once already, but to answer your question more fully, yes a 300 Wby Mag will still give more velocity than a 300 Win Mag even in a 24 inch barrel.

MOST OF THE TIME. I mentioned before, in my 24 inch 300 Wby Mag I get about 3150 with 180 grain bullets, while most 300 Win mags I have chronographed topped out about 3050 fps. BUT, I used to own a 300 Win mag with a 24 inch barrel that would match my Weatherby in every way. (both Remingtons) I was stupid enough to sell that gun but wish I had it back.

Like you, it just seems sensible to buy a Weatherby cartridge in a Weatherby rifle. The only negative I could possibly come up with would be the extra cost of Weatherby brass, it is getting pretty high.

I you decide to save money by using Remington brand 300 Wby Mag brass be foreworned that it has less powder capacity and pressures will escalate with loads that would be safe in Weatherby brass. Both brands of brass are excelant, they are just different.

I get 3400 fps with 150 gr. 3170 fps with 180 gr. 3000 fps with 200 gr. And 2880 fps with 220 gr. Oh also 3800 fps with 110 gr bullets

All loads where chronographed

You may get another 50+ fps with 26 barrel but I feel fine with the fps I am getting

Jason

I don't see any problem worth worrying about when using the 24" barrel.

My .300 Wby, with 84 grains of H-4831 (original surplus)and 180 gr. Hornady bullets from my 26" barrel gets 3,187 fps chrono'd average velocity at 28 feet from the muzzle. That's only 37 fps more than other posters with 24" barrels are reporting in this thread.

I also have a 24" barreled .300 Winchester Mag (Ruger No. 1-V) which is one of a half dozen of them I've owned in various makes and models over the years. NONE of mine, then or now, have ever gotten up to the 3,100 fps mark.

So, the way I see it, the .300 WBY will always give greater velocity than the .300 Win when shot from the same length barrel, AND the loss of velocity is so small when going from 26" to 24" of barrel as to be irrelevant.

I use a 24" on my ultra and have been very happy with it.

does anyone really think the animal on the receiving end can tell the difference between 3050fps and 3150fps???

All I see above is anecdotal stories with different rifles and loads - just lots of opinions and no proof of anything. How about some real published data?

Rifle Shooter, September 2003:
Author Wayne VanZwoll used the same barrel in each caliber, cutting it off in 1" intervals and chronographing at each length. All ammo the same in each cartridge.

.300 Winchester Mag, 180-grain bullets, RL-22 powder
Barrel/Velocity
27"......3055 fps
26"......3031
25"......3024
24"......3003
23"......2984
22"......2960
Total lost in 5" = 95 fps

.300 Remington UltraMag, 220-grain bullet, H870
Barrel/Velocity
27"......3107 fps
26"......3088
25"......3062
24"......3046
23"......3018
22"......2997
Total lost in 5" = 110 fps

The .300 Weatherby will lie somewhere in between these two. I certainly see no real-world difference between a 24" and 26" barrel for .300 Magnum-class cartridges. As above, I doubt that any animal or the shooter will either.



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quote:

Originally posted by ztreh:
Right on captain---26 inch or more to get the most out of such a fine cartridge. In my opinion the .300 win. mag. will never come close to the weatherby no matter what you do for it.

In my EXPERIENCE: I've owned one Vangard in 300 WBY with 24" barrel. It was VERY accurate and had a beautiful Claro walnut handle. But it would NOT quite make 3200 fps with 180s.

In my EXPERIENCE: a 26" Browning A-Bolt SS in 300 Win Mag would pass 3200 fps with 180s. And I've owned a bunch more 300 Winnies with 23" to 24" tubes. All were as accurate as the Vangard (1/2 to 3/4" groups with 180s and 200s)but none would equal the Weatherby 24" with 180s. So, in my EXPERIENCE, 26-inches is needed for both to fully realize their potential.

That's about 3200 from the Winchester (see Nosler: 180 @ 3160 and 200 @ 2972 for 24") with 26" and 3250 to 3300 for the Weatherby with a 26".

In my view that's max for both, but there are several variables.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

TX Nimrod is right. There is variation in velocities from barrel to barrel and actual diffrence between 24 and 26 is neglidgeable. I do like the Wby case better. It seems to be the perfect volume for many slow powders and bullet weight combinations. I also like the longer neck and weatherby freebore really seems to agree with Barnes TSX bullets. In the end though, any animal at any distance with like bullets and shot placement will never know the diffrence.

I've been happy with my 24" M70 300 Wby. What I don't like with the Vanguards, however, is the magazine. They REALLY pushed it with the 300 Wby. I do believe I have read on here, some people having trouble seating out or using the very long bullets and being able to cycle through the magazine. Rems and Wins and Wbys don't have this issue, PLENTY of room in the box.

Do I wish my 300 had a 26" barrel? Sure, I mean, why not push it as much as possible? Do I feel handicapped? Not at all. Adjusting for a very slightly shorter barrel with handloading is as easy as using RL22 instead of RL25 and cutting the differences down a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:
All I see above is anecdotal stories with different rifles and loads - just lots of opinions and no proof of anything. How about some real published data.



.

Published data is nice,but I prefer to develop my own,because rifles vary.

A 300 Win Mag on a 1909 Argentine Mauser built by Maurice Ottmar and Tom Burgess gave me 3140 with a 180 Nosler Partition and 76 gr RL22.

Another 300 Win Mag with 24" SS Krieger,and bullets seated to H&H length,gave about the same velocity with 76 gr IMR4831.

A 300 Weatherby in a 24" McGowen barrel gave about 3125 with 180's but cannot recall the exact load.I thought it was pretty pokie because at the same time a 300 Win and 300 H&H both gave about 3090 or so.

Other 300 Weatherby's have run 3150-3250 with 180 gr bullets and 7828.This from M70 Classics with 26" barrels.

There can be a good bit of crossover between the cartridges in actual velocities,depending on barrels, but as a rule the 300 Weatherby will exceed the 300 Winchester by about 100-150 fps if all things are equal, which they rarely are...as the poster notes, no animal will know the difference.

The animale will NOT die any deader with an extra 2" of barrel on your rifle.

Keith

I cannot really buy that statement, unless there is proof from the deadness.

I have a Vanguard VGX Deluxe that I purchased a long time ago and, while I would have preferred a 26 inch barrel, but the 24 incher has always done fine. It is a beautiful rifle and function has been flawless since day one. Quite a few people have used that rifle on hunts and the 300 Wby's killing power leaves them smiling everytime