Guys,

Going this fall. Using my .338 win mag. Have been told to expect wind and shooting 250 to 500 yards. Best bullet?


Thanks,
Ski+3

Not killed anything with it yet, but I just loaded up the 225 TTSX in mine; it is a .514 BC. It will kill anything at that range. And shoots at .8 @100.

The 225 Nosler Accubond is a great all-around bullet. That said, the old stand-by, the 210 Partition does everything you would ever ask of a .338. Either can be launched at around 2900 fps with a powder of appropriate speed from most 24" barrels, and either will usually exhibit better accuracy (with more certain expansion) than the somewhat capricious monometal bullets.

225 TTSX is probably the best choice for the 338.


I'd comfortably face anything short of an elephant with it.


To be honest, it'd probably work on an ele too.

What rifle is it?

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Not killed anything with it yet, but I just loaded up the 225 TTSX in mine; it is a .514 BC. It will kill anything at that range. And shoots at .8 @100.

As always, try the bullet out in your particular rifle. If you get sub-MOA accuracy you are good to go with the 225gn TTSX. As mentioned, you need a high BC for bucking the wind. The TTSX will expand and penetrate from any angle. Meat on the table, period, .

Thanks guys. I shoot a Browning A bolt. Will get my fingers on some TTSX bullets and try some loads. Had a hard time finding powder for my 250 grain Accubonds and Woodleighs. Seeing IMR 4350 for Barnes.

Barnes lists the TSX as .43 BC.
Nosler lists the Accubond as .55 BC.

If you find the 375H&H magazines you can seat your bullets closer to the lands, better accuracy.

quote:

Thanks guys. I shoot a Browning A bolt. Will get my fingers on some TTSX bullets and try some loads. Had a hard time finding powder for my 250 grain Accubonds and Woodleighs. Seeing IMR 4350 for Barnes.

Barnes lists the TSX as .43 BC.
Nosler lists the Accubond as .55 BC.

i use IMR 4350 for the 225 TTSX. Max book load at book OAL. Your gun may vary, start low, yadda yadda… I tried fancy "off the land" loading but just wasted bullets. My M70 preferred a spec OAL, as do the rest of my M70's.

Good luck with your loading and hunt

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
The 225 Nosler Accubond is a great all-around bullet. That said, the old stand-by, the 210 Partition does everything you would ever ask of a .338. Either can be launched at around 2900 fps with a powder of appropriate speed from most 24" barrels, and either will usually exhibit better accuracy (with more certain expansion) than the somewhat capricious monometal bullets.

This. The 225 Accubond has almost the bc of the 250 and you get more speed with it Check the velocity numbers on the 225 TTSX. Will you have enough velocity to open it at 500 yards? I think you want 2300-2400 fps to insure it opens completely. Will you have that? It's not an issue with the Accubonds.

LWD

quote:

Check the velocity numbers on the 225 TTSX

at 500 its about 2000fps and almost 2000 fpe still.

quote:

Originally posted by SkiBumplus3:
Thanks guys. I shoot a Browning A bolt. Will get my fingers on some TTSX bullets and try some loads. Had a hard time finding powder for my 250 grain Accubonds and Woodleighs. Seeing IMR 4350 for Barnes.

Barnes lists the TSX as .43 BC.
Nosler lists the Accubond as .55 BC.

The TSX is like comparing apples and oranges.
I wouldn't use the TSX now that the TTSX is available.

The TTSX has a .514 BC (which is .257G7).
Any impact over 1900fps will open up and it is still over 2100fps at 500 yards.
In fact, the 225TTSX in a 338WinMag at 2835 muzzle is still 2000fps at 600 yards. The only question here is if the rifle shoots the TTSX well. It will probably be excellent, but one cannot be sure until it is tested.

Penetration, of course, for the TTSX is guaranteed, whether up close or at any range. The same is not true for the accubonds.

Thanks guys. Starting my search for some 225 grain TTSX. Will report back.

Ski+3

You could even drop down to the 210 TTSX and gain some more velocity, The 210 has a BC of .482 and an SD of 263.
Last June I used a .338 Win Mag on African plains game, 70.5 grains IMR 4350 got Sierra 225 grain Pro Hunter, 2860 fps out of my 21.5" barreled Winchester. Longest shot was 325 meters on Blue wildebeest and got more than 30" of penetration, all other animals one shot kills and pass throughs. For me I wouldn't change a thing.
If you plan on shooting game at 500 yards you should practice at that distance, can be humbling.
By the way how did your Mule Deer hunt near Eagle, CO go.?

quote:

The TTSX has a .514 BC (which is .257G7).
Any impact over 1900fps will open up

Should read "Any impact over 1900 fps will often open up".

There are literally hundreds of posts right here on AR by experienced users of monometal bullets who have had them "pencil through" an animal without apparent expansion. This is an unavoidable characteristic of monometal bullets. But why worry? Totally non-expanding FMJ's have killed millions of large mammals.

I have had such good luck with the 210 Nosler at 3020 FPS, it holds good in the wind and hits with authority, always expands it seems.

I recently built a .338 custom rifle to sell on the internet and since I had a 375 Swift (Blackburn) bottom metal I used It on the .338 and cut a long throat to match the magazine. My initial tests easily duplicated the .340 Wby. with the added powder capacity and velocity I gained..and it shot factory .338 ammo as well as the seated out bullets. The bullet jump had no adverse effect on accuracy. Its an awesome rifle for short or long range shooting. The loads I liked best were the ones in between the .338 and the 340 Wby in performance, very mild pressure and lots of velocity.

Its an option that everyone should have on a custom .338 Win. IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

The TTSX has a .514 BC (which is .257G7).
Any impact over 1900fps will open up

Should read "Any impact over 1900 fps will often open up".

There are literally hundreds of posts right here on AR by experienced users of monometal bullets who have had them "pencil through" an animal without apparent expansion. This is an unavoidable characteristic of monometal bullets. But why worry? Totally non-expanding FMJ's have killed millions of large mammals.

Fair enough, if those are the facts, and everyone admits that any big game bullet can resist expansion for some bizarre reason.

My problem is on the evidence. I've seen too many examples of smallish exit holes and massive internal damage so as to doubt most claims of "penciling through." I think most hunters are unaware that the characteristics of monometal bullets are inherently different from lead cores and they create different kinds of wound patterns at highvelocity. See the discussions at GSCustom. Barnes also has pictures showing how rapidly the newer TTSX bullets start to expand. This rapid expansion will sometimes create a large entrance hole when blow back occurs from an exploding bone or such. In any case, this is a newish technology. Those who demand guaranteed penetration would do well from studying the new wound patterns. They needn't jump on board but the differences need clarity when giving reports.

Isn't expansion dependent to some degree on energy as well? In other words, at 500 yds a 225 TTSX may only be going 2000 fps, but it also has a ton of energy still. If a different weight TTSX was going 2000 fps but only had 1000 fpe, I would think expansion would follow energy, no? I'm sure there is a physics equation that addresses this somewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

The TTSX has a .514 BC (which is .257G7).
Any impact over 1900fps will open up

Should read "Any impact over 1900 fps will often open up".

There are literally hundreds of posts right here on AR by experienced users of monometal bullets who have had them "pencil through" an animal without apparent expansion. This is an unavoidable characteristic of monometal bullets. But why worry? Totally non-expanding FMJ's have killed millions of large mammals.

Most of the ones I've seen are of the old X.

Are there any credible reports of the tipped versions failing to expand?

quote:

Most of the ones I've seen are of the old X

And I can recall the smaller calibers 30 and under, as being the ones most mentioned.

I had it happen with a 375 at less than 100 yds.



But never with a TSX/TTSX and that's 95% of my bullet selection

Is this cartridge suitable for hunting this animal ?, I've seen on pages that offer this animal hunts recommend cartridges like the 300 Weatherby Magnum, 300 RUM and the like.

regards,

Ovny.

The 338 is a great cartridge. It is scarcely distinguishable from the 300 magnums on game with comparable bullets. I'd hunt anything with one that I would hunt with the other. Good luck on your hunt.

Nosler lists a 300gr Accubond that has a .720 BC. I've never seen another hunting bullet with that good of a number. If I was concerned about wind drift, I would be looking very hard at this one. No worries about it expanding at long range either.

I'm not sure the 338 win mag can drive the 300 grain bullets fast enough to take advantage of that BC.

The 225, is the best balance IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

The TTSX has a .514 BC (which is .257G7).
Any impact over 1900fps will open up

Should read "Any impact over 1900 fps will often open up".

There are literally hundreds of posts right here on AR by experienced users of monometal bullets who have had them "pencil through" an animal without apparent expansion. This is an unavoidable characteristic of monometal bullets. But why worry? Totally non-expanding FMJ's have killed millions of large mammals.

Fair enough, if those are the facts, and everyone admits that any big game bullet can resist expansion for some bizarre reason.

My problem is on the evidence. I've seen too many examples of smallish exit holes and massive internal damage so as to doubt most claims of "penciling through." I think most hunters are unaware that the characteristics of monometal bullets are inherently different from lead cores and they create different kinds of wound patterns at highvelocity. See the discussions at GSCustom. Barnes also has pictures showing how rapidly the newer TTSX bullets start to expand. This rapid expansion will sometimes create a large entrance hole when blow back occurs from an exploding bone or such. In any case, this is a newish technology. Those who demand guaranteed penetration would do well from studying the new wound patterns. They needn't jump on board but the differences need clarity when giving reports.

Very good points.

By the way, while hunting moose in Alaska I have had the opportunity to see bullets that have failed to expand and still kill the moose shot. I saw three 180-grain Nosler partition bullets shot from a .300 Weatherby and a .300WM. The moose was perhaps 150 yards away. I also saw a 225-grain Trophy Bonded bullet that was shot from a .338WM from about the same distance.

I noticed that there was a very small dent at one side of the bullet's ogive or nose, and that the nose itself had a slight bent to one side. Other than that the bullet was intact, which led me to believe that the bullet nose's side instead of its tip hit bone, and then tumbled.

I have had nothing but excellent performance from the 225-grain Barnes TSX, except that I haven't been able to recover but one bullet from moose. The rest have passed through. I haven't had the chance to use the 225-grain TTSX, but this will be my number one choice from now on.

Ray, I've yet to see much difference. Started out with the 225 TSX in my 338, now shoot the. 225 TTSX. Yet to recover a bullet. Including use on a grizzly.

Thanks for all the input guys. Now planning to use my 250 AB and 225 TTSX in testing this spring. Love my .338 Win Mag..
Planning to spend more time at the range than on load development.

Colorado deer hunt went very well. Found 3 bucks in 4 days. All wall-hangers.

Ski+3

If you want expansion with a .338 at 500 yards then you had better use the 210 Nosler..Noslers expand on contact on about any surface but hold together after that expansion..Sometimes the front end blows off and that's not a bad thing but you get a caliber size exit hole and lungs like jelly inside..

The .338 is no whiz bang velocity caliber, its a hard working, killing machine but the 300 Wby etc is a better long range caliber IMO..and that is just balistically common since.

At 400 yards lots, in fact , most bullets begin to fail from lack of expansion, and at 500 there is a definite chance of failure. At long range like that I actually would prefer a cup and core Rem corelokt or Win Power Point.

The problem with using the cup and core bullets is your shot may be at 100 or less, thus my love of the Nosler partition, its works best at all ranges in my experience.

quote:

If you want expansion with a .338 at 500 yards then you had better use the 210 Nosler..Noslers expand on contact on about any surface but hold together after that expansion..Sometimes the front end blows off and that's not a bad thing but you get a caliber size exit hole and lungs like jelly inside..

That is a nice description of the monometal bullets like GSC and TTSX. They blow their petals at impact velocities over 2700fps, and their full cylinder flat nose leaves a wicked wound channel, although the exit holes on the rubbery skin are small. Just like many a Nosler I used in the 80's.

Some good news to update this is that the TTSX has been designed to make expansion virtually instantaneous on contact. The plastic tip and the nose designs on the TTSX now make it as fast expanding as any big game bullet out there. The advantage for the TTSX is an improved BC for long velocity/energy retention.

Nosler Accubonds have a BC that would work at over 400 yards, but they have a reputation for being too soft up close. So the Partition would be my choice too, for an all around leadcore that would do the job upclose. The Partition is still a great bullet, even if our personal 338 ammo right now is all 225 grain, blue-tipped TTSX. It is the closest thing to guaranteed penetration should we meet something nasty up close, and being streamlined for 300 yard shots 'in its sleep'.

Lets keep in mind that the OP said he is hunting Asain Ibex at an expected 250-500yd.
Not brown bear at 50yd.

He doesn't need the toughness of a mono for Ibex if using a 338win.
An Accubond is strong enough and has higher BC for downrange shots....
At 500-yds id be more concerned about drift than drop.


225GR NOSLER ACCUBOND (0.550 BC) @ 2850 FPS
Range / Vel. / Impact / KE / Drift
000 / 2850 / -1.50 / 4058 / 0.00
050 / 2761 / 1.16 / 3809 / 0.58
100 / 2678 / 2.68 / 3583 / 1.01
150 / 2597 / 3.00 / 3370 / 1.73
200 / 2517 / 2.01 / 3165 / 2.76
250 / 2439 / -0.36 / 2972 / 4.10
300 / 2362 / -4.20 / 2787 / 5.78
350 / 2287 / -9.59 / 2613 / 7.81
400 / 2213 / -16.66 / 2447 / 10.2
450 / 2141 / -25.50 / 2290 / 12.97
500 / 2069 / -36.25 / 2139 / 16.14

200GR NOSLER ACCUBOND (0.414 BC) @ 3100 FPS
Range / Vel. / Impact / KE / Drift
000 / 3100 / -1.5 / 4268 / 0.00
050 / 2975 / 1.0 / 3931 / 0.61
100 / 2859 / 2.53 / 3630 / 1.13
150 / 2746 / 2.99 / 3349 / 2.00
200 / 2636 / 2.28 / 3086 / 3.26
250 / 2529 / 0.33 / 2840 / 4.91
300 / 2424 / -3.00 / 2610 / 6.99
350 / 2323 / -7.81 / 2397 / 9.51
400 / 2224 / -14.23 / 2197 / 12.5
450 / 2127 / -22.42 / 2009 / 16.00
500 / 2033 / -32.54 / 1836 / 20.04

quote:

Originally posted by SkiBumplus3:
Thanks for all the input guys. Now planning to use my 250 AB and 225 TTSX in testing this spring. Love my .338 Win Mag..
Planning to spend more time at the range than on load development.

Colorado deer hunt went very well. Found 3 bucks in 4 days. All wall-hangers.

Ski+3

Perfect! Practice and more practice.

Yes, for 250-500 yards the BC will be the decisive factor for a 338.

Nosler has just announced their E-tip 225 grain .338" with an advertised BC of .611. Wow.

That brings up a second question, the comparability of BC figures from different manufacturers. The picture of the Nosler 338 E-Tip and its 1.46" length is stubby compared to the TTSX 1.55" Barnes. Barnes "only" lists the BC of their 225TTSX at .514. However, a visual comparison makes me think that the physics of the bullets favors the TTSX over the ETip for BC. The Barnes' figures have the ring of truth on this point. The 210grain Partition in 338 only has a .400BC from the same manufacterer of the .611BC ETip. Obviously the ETip is to be preferred over the Partition, but not necessarily the TTSX.

However, Nosler has also come out with a new Long Range series, but only up to 30 calibre so far. The 30 calibre 210 grain Long Range Accubond has a BC of .730. It certainly looks sleeker than the 225grain ETip at .611 BC. So while I don't trust either of those BC's against other competitors, I would give the nod to the new 210 grain THIRTY calibre Accubond as a 500 yard bullet.

In sum, I would test the Accubond and the Barnes TTSX in the .338 rifle to see which is most accurate. I would go with the most accurate and treat the BCs as functionally equivalent. Take the most accurate bullet for the gun and then test its real drop and BC at 500 yards. If one calculates muzzle velocity, elevation and temperature they will be able to get an accurate understanding of its BC and will be able to predict the drop at whatever elevation one would be hunting at.

And as mentioned, only the TTSX load would be considered for a mixed bag hunt with large animals under 250 yards, potentially including bear or buffalo in various circumstances. (I would opt for a larger calibre myself, but I only carry one rifle at a time and a 338 will take a buffalo nicely if one is careful.)
.

I can't argue the paper ballistics of the different bullets as all of whats been said is within the relm of possible..

However, all that said I have seen the results of what the 210 Nosler will do at 500 to 600 yards more than a few times, and its impressive to say the least.

I also did some tests and the 210 Nosler out penetrated both the 225 and 250 gr. Nosler. The first time I heard this was from Bob Hagle in an article he penned, and I said " can't be" then had to eat my words..I guess the higher velocity and the partition and the probable blowing away of the front portion created the situation..I also have noted that when the front portion of a Nosler is blown away you always get a caliber size exit hole and internal damage is awesome with all those parts buzzing around inside the animal..Several very fine European bullets are so designed and have been very popular in Africa for many years.

quote:

all those parts buzzing around inside the animal

I am the only one who thinks about lead fragments in my venison?

Baxter,
I have never bit into a lead fragment in 80 years, and I don't eat the lungs, I have never cut into a lead fragment in the meat when butchering and I have always butchered my own game. Not saying it hasn't happened, just saying it has not happened to me. I suppose if one shot an animal in the hams it would be more likely but they leave a trail so you cut them out..I have found them on the inside of the rib cage, and around the blood shot exit hole on occasion, but those small fragments don't have much penetration.

More importantly I have seen the same fragmentation with monolithics like Barnes and GSC more than a few times, and every other bullet made, lots of them come apart..

I also am not from California and not concerned with lead poisoning, so far so good on that count.