Ran across a pre 64 M70 270 In a I assume Std Grade. Condition is fair with some heavy wear on the metal work, an open crack under the barrel in the barrel channel, the inside of the unjeweled bolt looks very clean and almost unworn, and the barrel is too dirty to see clearly. The serial # is 447xxx and I have two questions.

Can someone tell me the age of the rifle, and at a $750 asking price how far over priced is it? I'm thinking it is worth about $350-$400 with the busted stock but it may be tough to get the dealer down that far a month before gun season opens here in Texas.
Comments?

I also was offered a well worn but solid looking all original Remmy 721 30'06 ... original iron sights and steel butt plate etc...with no serious issues I could see in the 45 seconds I glanced at the gun other than a slightly rusty floor plate with a price of $200. What is the Remmy worth +/- and could it be a decent receiver to turn into something else? Like a 9.3x62 carbine (to go with my CZ 550) or is it worth keeping original after a thorough cleaning and minor rehab?
Ron

According to ArmsCollectors.Com:

"The year of manufacture for serial number 447447 is 1959."

(I just filled in the last digits to get a result.)

Seems high to me, but I am no expert. I have no opinion to give on the Remington. My preference in 9.3x62 would be a Model 70 (or even a Model 54 with some reservations).

Remy no comment.

The model 70 was manufactured in 1958. Is the metal wear blueing only or does it have nicks and gouges?

Your dealer wants too much but your low balling on value also. A good clean pre 64 action only is worth $400-500.

You didn't go into the bore condition, or if you like the 270 chambering. Presuming no to the gouge question above, and yes to the other two $550 is fair, not a bargin mind you, but I doubt your dealer will move below that.

One last note the action prices are based on NO EXTRA HOLES. Drilled and tapped for a scope is OK, any side holes drops the price to 1/2 of what I posted above, I won't pay top dollar for a dorked up action.

Charles,

My lists are different, but Wisners matches your year:

1959
440,793 start
465,040 end
24,248 total

Guess I need to red line my other source.

Nope thought I was getting old and stupid my blue book is off on that year.

I just go by the Arms Collector's website -- I have no idea what they used to build their database. Close enough for me, but not necessarily definitive. Sounds like you are more thorough with some sources to cross-check if need be.

quote:

Originally posted by verhoositz:
Ran across a pre 64 M70 270 In a I assume Std Grade. Condition is fair with some heavy wear on the metal work, an open crack under the barrel in the barrel channel, the inside of the unjeweled bolt looks very clean and almost unworn, and the barrel is too dirty to see clearly. The serial # is 447xxx and I have two questions.

Can someone tell me the age of the rifle, and at a $750 asking price how far over priced is it? I'm thinking it is worth about $350-$400 with the busted stock but it may be tough to get the dealer down that far a month before gun season opens here in Texas.
Comments?

I also was offered a well worn but solid looking all original Remmy 721 30'06 ... original iron sights and steel butt plate etc...with no serious issues I could see in the 45 seconds I glanced at the gun other than a slightly rusty floor plate with a price of $200. What is the Remmy worth +/- and could it be a decent receiver to turn into something else? Like a 9.3x62 carbine (to go with my CZ 550) or is it worth keeping original after a thorough cleaning and minor rehab?
Ron

First the M-70. Personal opinion now...ok?...all pre-64 s are over priced and the one you described is about $250 overpriced. But the market is as it is and if you want one you pay the piper. I'd let him keep it and look to a new classic.

Now the Remmy....those are fine rifles. They're not lookers nor are they collectors nor are they the makings of a custom....they're just damn good meat and potatoes guns. They work and shoot fine. The stocks are not good with a scope but if restocked as I did with mine they're very good guns. Mine is a .300 H&H and shoots as well as one can want. It's easily converted to 9.3 X 62 if you wish and strong enough to hold a maximum load from the reloading bench.

I believe it can be retrofitted with Rem 700 bottom metal and might even fit into a aftermarket stock for a Rem 700. It's worth all of the $200 IMO and I'd jump on it.

You didn't go into details of what your planning on doing with the Model 70. For me they are either stock out of the box decent, or I want the whole hog full custom. They are too expensive to settle for the tail of the hog.

So it depends what you were planning to do with it. I wouldn't pay that much for a raggity old model 70 though, and in the condition you described its a project gun for me which means spendy, if I have one of these I would not be short cutting putting it back together. Actually I am there right now but thats a different story.

Verhoositz: The Rifle you are interested in was most likely made in the last two weeks of April 1959 or the first week of May 1959. If you could give me one more digit (the hundred digit!) I could pin it down for you a lot more!
I have seen many pre-64 Model 70 actions alone, of the vintage you are interested in, sell for in excess of $450.00!
If the barrel is original and has good crisp rifling, original sights and no extra holes in the action then I would go $500.00 (AT MOST) for it. Stocks for those (original) are getting VERY hard to find. If you are interested in a Hunting Rifle then maybe a fiberglass stock would be something to look into for it!
Let me know if you want to burp up the other digit and I can pin down the date for you!
I recently paid $600.00 for a 1948 vintage Model 70 in 30/06 caliber. It was really a VERY nice Rifle except it had a pad expertly installed. I was happy to have gotten that Rifle for that price.
Some folks think they (pre-64 Model 70's) are overpriced but they do sell pretty quickly in most cases! I saw a couple of old Model 70's sell today at a Gunshow here in Montana. One came walking in the door and did not make it around the show once before it was snapped up! The other was on a table at the show in the morning and was gone when I came back after lunch! I already had the version and caliber that sold off of the table so I did not bid on it. I did bid on a pre-64 Model 70 Varmint in caliber 243 Winchester. Very nice Rifle - asking price was $1,395.00!!! My bid was most all of that but was not accepted. I have several of these already but this one was a VERY clean Rifle and I have a weak spot for the Varmint pre-64's!
Long live the pre-64 Model 70's!
There are lots of custom Riflesmiths that continually search out the pre-64 Model 70 actions to build their most prestigious and beautiful of custom Rifles on!
But the way you describe that 270 I would not go anywhere near $750.00 for it!
Good luck with your Rifle choices!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I replied to this on 24Hr., so, won't here except to say that the Rem 721 is to a P-64 Mod. 70 as a Chevy is to a Cadillac. Also, to convert a 721 in .300 ouch and ouch to a 9.3x62 takes a LOT of skilled work as the bolt head recess is different, among other issues.

If, you want a 70, one of the truely great hunting rifles ever made, nice ones can be found in standard calibers for about $700.00 USD by checking the "Gun List" ads. regularly. Any decent US gunshow will have good specimens and you simply need to learn how to spot the gems from the junk, it's not difficult.

quote:

Also, to convert a 721 in .300 ouch and ouch to a 9.3x62 takes a LOT of skilled work as the bolt head recess is different, among other issues.

He was talking about a .30-06 and not a .300 H&H...it was mine that is a .300 H&H.

The context of your post indicates that you are referring to your rifle, sorry, my error. I kinda wondered why a knowledgable guy like you would say that, to be honest, and although it could be done, why would anyone want to?

I ran into these guns this afternoon walking down the street during a street fair with my wife. she was window shopping all the booths and I ducked into this pawn shop for a quick look/see she was getting antsy and making noises about leaving and I was scrambling to eyeball as much as possible. so I will be back in the dealer with my sack of trade goods and cash early next week. I also need to take a cleaning rod and see if this guy will let me swab out the spider webs in the barrels.

The Model 70 is a 270, my all time favorite caliber, and that is what caught my attention initially. It has no extra holes that jumped out at me, has the complete iron sight package and what looks like the original front sight hood but the bore is so filthy that you can't see the rifling clearly. My initial thought was to simply glue the crack back together, and float and glass bed it since it is already ruined as a collector and shoot it as is. I am not up to a high dollar restoration or conversion right now but could handle picking it up for a "someday" gun if the price was right.

the current tag price onthe M70 is $750 and I've already told the dealer I won't pay that for a rifle with a busted stock. In this condition I think $500 is still too high but at this time of year it may take that and more to get into this one...and I'll pass. If i decide to pass I'll post the dealer location so ya'll can take a swing at him if you want to.

If I was to acquire this piece, because of the busted stock I would turn it into an everyday shooter ...in 270 if the barrel cleans up or some other caliber at a later date.

As far as the Remmy 721 in '06 I might pick it up to use for a truck gun if its barrel will clean up as it also is filthy, or if it is not too much of a hassle to change calibers to a non belted long action cartridge...and since I am playing with a CZ 9.3 I thought about using it to make a short barreled brush bucker in a 9.3.

Thanks for all the insight guys. Ya find'em where ya find'em.
Ron

While were on the discussion of the legend. Is there anybody out there besides me that thinks the original stocks were ugly? Especially the left side?

No argument they are functional, and I like the drop and how they handle. But the area around the action on the left side was certainly no masterpiece of stockmakers art. I always thought the hump/drop whatever looked more like it was expediant to manufacturer. I much prefer the horizontal 'C" cutout on the mag side and straight line down the left.

I was working on a original a couple of months back and honestly the grade of wood wasn't all that great either, not horrible, but soft and very plain grained. Pretty sure the piece I was working on was American Black walnut. I think the soft wood was why its so hard to find nice speciemens today.

quote:

While were on the discussion of the legend. Is there anybody out there besides me that thinks the original stocks were ugly? Especially the left side?

Yes, I agree.....but the M-70 did have styling of a different nature. The metal was better than most. Winchester sights were better looking than the Remington by a bunch and their bolt handle is far better. When compared to Remington's 721 stock the Winchester was still a long ways ahead.

To look at the old M-70 wood and compare it to today's shadowline classics is a little hard on the old gun. Judging by yesterday's standards it was actually a great stock. By todays standards it's a little lacking for sure.

When I go back and look at the wood on some of the old mausers I really am not impressed at all. I like the history but when it comes to styling we're in better shape today than ever IMO. Even the old M-70 don't hold a candle to today's stocks.

Vapodog,

My critic was of the stocks only, metal is a whole different subject. If I thought on it real hard I could come up with some minor items, but this would be tweaks or small improvements at best.

And yes I guess that its unfair of me to compare these to newer more modern stock designs. Looking back at the era, there were a lot of other rifles with white line spacers and assorted hideous accessories.

In fairness it should be remembered that the rack grade Model 70's were a meat and potatoes type rifle. These were not expensive and only the supergrades were sold as the bells and whistle version. Right after the war weren't these a sub $100 rifle?