I've raised this question before but can't search for prior responses. Search isn't working for me.

I'm attracted to a full stock rifle. I'm considering the two mentioned above. What are the relative merits? Does the M77 give up too much velocity with the 18" barrel? How will accuracy compare vs. a standard stock? I'm thinking .308 if the M77 but .30-06 in the CZ since I don't like detachable mag that the CZ in .308 uses.

I know what you mean about full length stocks,I like em too., but normally they don't group as well. That is to be anticipated just because of the full length bedding on the barrel. The problem I've found with rugers have been cheap barrels and poor inletting. The inletting is easily fixed with some accraglass, but the barrel is a hit or miss process. I too don't like the box magazine on CZ's. The ones I've had I ended up bedding the actions just like on the ruger. It think the accuracy is more consistant with CZ's but is never a good as if you hit a good ruger. For hunting I would prefer the 06, but there's nothing wrong with a 308 either. Just for an alternative remington offers a minlicher stock also, but its from their custom shop and they know how to charge for it. It just seems to me that a guy shouldn't have to pay 500-700 for a rifle and then have to do a bunch of bedding etc. on it, but it sure ends up that way a bunch of the time.

Thanx,

My preference would be the Ruger with a 20" barrel. I'd also prefer 7mm-08. Alas, it's not to be. I know of the Remington, but for some reason I've never liked Remington. I know that put's me in the minority. It appears that the accuracy folks love them. They certainly have the most aftermarket stocks, etc. available. When I set my rig up, it will have a scope with no front bell, probably a Leupold 1.5-5X. It will be set in low QD rings, probably Talley. I much prefer the Ruger/CZ method of machining the bases into the receiver.

More input from others is appreciated.

My CZ puts 150 gr corelokt under an inch at 100 yds. I do not care for det magazine but I like the accuracy of the rifle. I see FS Sakos sometimes. Just picked up one in 30-06. Also got a 25-06 FS, amcurious to see how that shoots. Would like to have a FS 7-08 but have not found one reasonably priced.

I've got a tang safety Ruger RSI in 308 and it seems to be about 75-100 fps shy of published velocities. Reasonably accurate with most 150 gr. loads shooting into 1.25" or a little less. Reasonable build quality for the price, a little lighter (I think) than the CZ. Normally I find that full stocked rifles will not be as accurate as a glass bedded, free floated half stock rifle, or at least not as consistantly accurate. I've got an old 1891 Argentine Mauser that shoots .8's with peep sights at 100 yards, but only when it's dry and warm. I really like the look and feel of them however and use the Ruger extensively for hunting when I know I won't get shots over 200 yards, it's got a 1.5-4.5 scope on it and is a very handy woods rifle.

I like the FS rifles, too. About 6 weeks ago I bought a CZ in 6.5x55. During barrel break-in, I put all 20 rounds into 1" at 50 yds with iron sights. I was shooting fairly quickly to get the break-in done, and I was awfully surprised and happy when I looked through the binos at the target.

Steve

I have owned the RSI in 22-250, 250 Savage, 7x57 and 30-06. I had a 550FS in 9.3x62.

The RSI is a trim, lightweight carbine. I think the barrel is to short for most of the cartridges it is chambered in. Accuracy was around 2 MOA with factory ammo. I believe it also suffers from having a pencil-thin barrel, whcih may not agree with a full stock.

The 550FS was more accurate, with a heavier barrel and robust stock. You could probably attach a bayonet to it without affecting accuracy.

Citori3: let me preface this post by stating that I do not own a fullstock, but I do own two CZs, one a CZ 550 American in 7x57mm and the other a CZ 527 in .223 Remington. My brother, Duffy, saw the shockingly small groups I was getting with my handloads in my CZ 550 American, so I showed him my CZ handbook sent with my rifle. He came to the photo of the little CZ 550 Fullstock and stopped right there. Then he saw the information page on all the CZ rifles in the book. "Isn't that what your's is in," he asked pointing to 7x57mm. I said it was and about 30 minutes later was making a long distance telephone call to Phil at CZ Connection in Georgia. Phill said he could get a fullstock 7x57 in about two weeks. We went through my FFL dealer friend and in a month, Duffy had his rifle. I developed some handloads for it with the Nosler Partition in 160 grains and H414 powder. With good handloads his rifle, off sandbags, will put three into a .75 inch group. With proper cooling, it will consistently do that. My CZ American likes both the Partition and the 162 grain Hornady SSTs loaded to about .01 inch from the lands. Anyway, a friend of Duffy's came out to his range one day (near El Paso, Texas) and saw what Duffy's rifle was doing, asked to shoot it and put three into a group slightly larger than one inch. His buddy was impressed. Within an hour, his friend, a restaurant owner, had a fullstock in 7x57mm on order from Phil. Oddly enough, the restaurant owner's rifle likes Hornady SSTs and the fellow uses my handloads on his deer hunting lease in Texas and to shoot the heads off of wild turkey on his lease as well. I cannot address what the Ruger RSI will, or will not do because I do not have any experience with it at all. I can tell you though, the CZ is accurate as hell. Unfortunately CZ decided to drop the 7x57 from its fullstock line and just recently dropped the caliber from its rifles completely. The CZ stock is a bit more stout than other stocks, but the rifle is accurate, at least mine and Duffy's and the restaurant owner's rifles are accurate. Good luck no matter which side of the fullstock fence to fall to. Tom Purdom

I would get the Ruger in a .308. It is plenty of barrel for a .308. I am a traditionalist, and if you have handled many original Oberndorf Mauser Sporters S's and M's (the two mannlicher versions) or original Mannlicher Schoeners, then you will see just how svelt and trim these things are . Full custom Mannlichers follow these lines. THe Ruger does a decent job of this. The CZ, while very functional and cheaply priced, is not svelt. CZ's can only be described as "clunky". That does not mean they will not do the job, it just means they are an inexpensive modern version of a rifle style that does not really follow the original plan. All of thsi is FOrd vs Chevy type thing, but you asked for opinions. I would never havea a CZ mannlicher for htis reason. THe CZ rifles can be made into nice rigs with some work, but the Mannlichers do not do what Mannlichers have always done. You really need to handle both so you can see which one you like. If this is not possible where you live, then it comes down to if you want trim and scelt, or bulky,

Like skl1, I too acquired a CZ550FS in 6.5x55 (at about the same time) and was also impressed with the accuracy during break-in. I haven't developed loads for it yet, but it shows potential, shooting Federal 140gr factory ammo into ~1"@100yds. I suggest looking into a 6.5x55, it's a great little round.



The CZ550 FS carbine, while dimensionally larger than a Mannlicher-Shoenauer, doesn't feel clunky to me. The stock does have a fair amount of drop which is great for open-sights, however, moderate sized scopes in Warne medium height rings match up nicely. They clear the bolt but are not too high. Factory CZ rings were way too high for me.



The full-stock CZ impressed me enough to trade for a second CZ550, a Safari Magnum in .375 H&H with the "hogsback" stock a few weeks after getting the FS. There is just something about Barvarian styled stocks and Mauser type actions .

Great minds think alike!

I already have the cz550 in .375 with the hogsback stock. I love it. Many think the cz is poorly finished relative to the Remchester and Ruger products. I don't see it myself.

I like this post...yes, fs rifles are in a class by themselves. I coveted one for years before finally finding a Sako L597 in .243 win. I bought the thing for a little over $500 took it home and looked at it. The problem was the caliber...243...it needed to be a thumper of some sort. You know, the kind of rifle you just picked up, walked out the door and hunted whatever needed to be hunted..from mice to bull moose. My boys shot a bus load of blacktail deer with it before I finally took it away from them and had it rebored to the .358 win. Now it's been used succesfully on bull elk. The only issue I found was at the range. No, it's not a tack driver and was never intended to be...but it'll keep em all under an inch and a half at 100 yds...when I do my part. That part turned out to be keeping the sand bags under the floor plate and letting the front half of the stock remain unsupported. The full length stock does require a little fore thought at the range but makes up for it in personality and poise and a whole lotta class that the plastic stocked guns just can't duplicate. The Remington M7 Mannlicher is todays finest factory offering and the boys at Remington should be proud of it...they should also take a good hard look at the writings of the men and women that buy their product and add the .358 to their catalog. They would be well rewarded. BT53

Can anyone else comment on Marc Stokeld's observation that the cz FS is bulky? I've not actually handled one. Is this a major issue? I don't want to buy a piece of pipe in a 2X4! My cz safari in .375 is a bit bulky, but I've always attributed that to the magnum size action.

The 550FS is about the same as the full stock Sako, Zoli, Remington, etc. It is not bulky by any means. The Ruger is thinner and a bit lighter, nice to carry but not as rigid.

I have owned several dozen full stock factory rifles from every possible manufacturer. Mauser and Mannlicher-Schoenauer are the finest, but in current production the CZ550 gets the nod.

Citori:

DOn't take our word for it, handle a few yourself. The ONLY reason for owning a Mannlicher stocked rifle is romance and asthetics. It is definitely not for performance. If you get a Man to shoot as well as a regualr rifle, you arevery lucky. If you want light, then a Man is not the way to go. THe only purpose it serves is to please your senses. FOr many of us, it does that job very, very wel!!! My all time favorite Mannlicher stocked arms, other than just a few customs I have handled, are Oberndorf Mauser Type M's.

On the Rugers, I actually prefer the old tang safety model 77RSI's. I don't know if they are actually built to slightly different diemnsions or not, but they just seems a little more slim to me.

CZ has done a very, very good job of building funtional rifles to a low price point. They give up a good bit in fit and finish, but hey, look at what they cost. Very good bargins. If you spend a little to tweak them, they get even better. But svelt they aint. Not by a long shot. The bigger the caliber, the worse they are offenders in this catagory. If the ONLY reason to own a Mannlicher stocked rifle is because it looks sexy, then to my thinking, one should go with a sexy, not clunky, rifle. Remeber, a Mannlicher stock is only there to be pleasing to the eye. It adds nothing to performance. Quite to the contrary, it makes things more difficult. But man, when done right they sure do look good!

It;s your money, get what you like the best. You asked for opinions, so here is mine. Just trying to give you another angle on it so you can make a more informed opinion. Both are good rifles and will serve you well. And I also hate detachable mags as you do.

Marc,

Thanks for your input. I'm not doubting your observations in any way. My only thought is that "clunkyness" is subjective and I want to see if others have noted the same thing. Perhaps I'm looking for someone to convince me that the cz is the way to go.

My problem is that I have no cz stocking dealers nearby. Certainly none that have a FS. Unfortunately, I have to rely on the catalog and forums like this to decide if I want to buy. I'd love to be able to handle them in advance but that's not going to happen.

The first centerfire I ever fired was a custom full stock built on an '03 Springfield action. I still remember it and am hoping the cz is close to that. I think the Ruger is a bit too short for my taste. Reading between the lines, I'm sure you can tell that it's nostalgia and style driving my decision. I understand and accept the shortcomings of the FS in terms of accuracy, etc..

My pride & joy is a Mannlicher Schoenhauer in 270 Win full stock. I do not shoot it much but it shoots about 1.5" groups with Winchester 130gn powerpoints at 100yds. No doubt I could improve on that by handloading but that's good enough for me.

I had a fullstock CZ550 in 7x64 until last year. My main complaint (besides it came with a plastic follower, but I finally got it replaced) was that you can't mount a scope as low as I would like. I have two winchester featherweights that have superlow zrings. That is about how I like them. I had the warne medium on the CZ but it looked unbalanced. It begain to shoot good after about 40 or 50 rounds through it. But not any better than the winchester with factory ammo. I get .8 or .9 inch groups with the winchesters with factory ammo (on a bright day when i can really see and have not had too much caffine). All my Model 70's have steel everything. Trigger guards, followers, and grip caps. Use leupold qrw bases and burris superlow zrings. Zrings are lapped with one inch steel bar and valve grinding compond.

I really wanted a 550 Lux in 9.3x62 but they quit importing it. I wanted the iron sights and the long barrel. I didn't save my money fast enough.

i have a m7mc in 308 which is your basic 1 hole rifle, it has a zeiss 4x scope *i have carried it all year.without doubt it would be my choice if you can afford it. my hunting partner has several 77rsi's & 1 h&r 301..he only used the 301

I dont find my CZ 550FS clunky. One of the things about the CZ's that I like is the polish and bluing, and the wood finish. I also prefer the hogsback stock (rather than a more modern, high, straight-combed stock) on a Mannlicher-stocked rifle, FWIW.

Marc's suggestion is good; you should go handle one if possible. But I don't think you'll find the CZ clunky.

I also do like the Ruger RSI and the Remington M7. I just prefer the comb on the CZ FS.

Steve

My first full stocked rifle was a Mannlicher-Schoenaur in 6.5x54 I loved that little rifle, but unfortunately, some low lifed son of a female mongrel dog stole it. I lloked for years to find a replacement and when Ruger brought out the RSI, it was a very close choice for replacement as to fit and feel for me. However, money was tight at the time so I had to pass. One day, there was an ad in the paper from a guy who was selling his at a price I could afford, so I gave him a call. His was the .308 Win., a cartridge I happen to like anyway. It came home with me. Nice package deal, gun, scope loading dies, ammo and bullets all for $300. The fellow was quite blunt in his dislike for the rifle. He said it was totally inaccurate, and he was not lying. The only bullets he wanted to use in the rifle were 180 gr. spitzers. The rifle did not like 180 gr. spitzers. PERIOD! I loaded up test loads with 150, 165, 180, gr. spitzers and one 180 gr. round nose bullet. Powders used were IMR-4895 and W-760, all I had on hand at the time. Starting with the worst load, the 180 gr. spitzer went 4 to 6 inches depending on the powder. Not good. The 165 gr. spitzers went 1.25 to 1.50", much better, at least it was a usable load. The 150 gr. spitzer was in the 2.0 to 2.5" range. Damn!. This rifle is fussy as hell. The 180 gr. round nose was consistantly in the .75 to 1.0" range. I settled on the 165 gr. load with W-760 as being the best and most useful. That was about 10 years ago, and I still use that same load for hunting.
About two years after I got the rifle, my wife of many years decided to no longer be a deer season widow and decided to take up hunting with me. I let her try out the feel of my rifles and you can guess which one she picked. Yup! My RSI. She declared that this was HER rifle. I said she could use it for now, but that I would find her one of her own. I did. Strange thing, but shortly after I got her own RSI, I fell into another one. Now I have three in the safe. What I found interesting is all threemliked the same loads in the same manner. Strange.
Now W-760 will not give the highest velocity in the .308, being, I believe a bit too slow burning for use in that round. Chronographing the 165 gr. load, the average velocity from all three rifles is 2550 FPS. That same load shot from a 22" barreled rifle is 2610 FPS, a 60 FPS gain.
FWIW, that load has dropped every deer hit with it at ranges from about 35 feet to 250 yards. Only one bullet has ever been recovered, and that one from the 250 yard deer. Bullet hit the chest as the deer was facing me, traveled the full length of the deer ending up against a back leg bone and still having enough energy to break that bone.
The load? It was 49.0 gr. of W-760, Speer 165 gr. Hotcore, Winchester brass and WLR primer. Recovered bullet weighed 108 gr. which is about 65 percent retained weight with a perfect mushroom.
What else can I say? It works for me.
Paul B.

I have a few cz's and they are finished far better than Rugers, wins & rems's IMHO....they feel more solid and have more of an old world feel to them.

Hey PC

I think you work for CZ!!

Paul B, At $300 you didn't buy that rifle, it was a gift! I looked very hard at those when I happened upon the Sako and am impressed with them...I do wish they were 20 inch barrels though. CZ's are pretty rare here in Souther Oregon, no dealers that Im aware of. I'd sure like to play with one to see how well they compare. I have friends that have used the same bullet weight in their .308's to kill a good number of bull elk with no complaints. I'd buy a Ruger RSI in a heart beat! BT53

Take your pick. I also think the Ruger is a bit trimmer, but I like the longer barrel on the CZ. I don't own nor have I shot a CZ, only held one for what it is worth.

I really like the Ruger #1 International. That little rifle with Mannlicher stock, and in 7x57 is just a beauty. My next rifle.

I ended up restocking a gun. They can be a bit troublesome at times, but those full length stocks make me week.