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Its hard to knock a moose down with a tractor.... John | |||
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A friend of mine tells a story of moose hunting with a .30-06. He followed the moose into the brush after sighting it from a canoe. Eventually he found the moose....it was standing right square in the middle of a trail looking at him. (brown pants time) He emptied his rifle (a 1903 Springfield) on the moose and all the time the moose never flinched or made a step.....(now really brown pants time) The moose just standing there all the time soaking up bullets and looking at the hunter like pretty soon he (the moose) was going to get pissed off.....the hunter is now out of ammo as well..... The moose slowly turned around and proceeded to take a step away and just fell over! The more I read about moose hunting, the more I think the story would have been the same with a more powerful cartridge. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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People take moose up here with .243's all the time. Moose hunting is like slaughtering cattle. They just stand there. Note, they have HUGE lungs that take a few minutes to fill with blood when you punch a hole in them. I would hunt anything in North America except brown bears with a .308/7MM-08/.260 REM. | |||
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Oh I think it has been happening for a lot longer than 50 years.FS | |||
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Yeah? Even longer than the 308 has been around?  | |||
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Moose are clamer animals than elk. In full rut, a monster bull moose will walk to a cow call, grunting and turning its head back and forth in a prance like manner. A bull elk goes wild, screaming and pissing and running. They are full of adrenaline. Shooting a calm moose is going to result in a calm expiration and often does. This is why the 6.5 X 55 Swede is so common. The hunter pops the lungs and the animal trots away or even walks away. My Dad has shot 21 moose, majority with a 270 Win Remington 760 pump. More than not, he unloaded the entire clip into the chest. I would consider the .308 to be more than adequate for moose. Elk are a different story because they almost always run away in a frantic scene. .308 and 30-06 for moose IMO 338-06 or 338 Win Mag. for elk IMO The larger frontal area, greater shock and greater hemmorage ability of the .338 is better for wild elk. | |||
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Moose are calmer animals than elk. They eat more alkaline sea plants. In full rut, a monster bull moose will walk to a cow call, grunting and turning its head back and forth in a prance like manner. A bull elk goes wild, screaming and pissing and running. They are full of adrenaline. Shooting a calm moose is going to result in a calm expiration and often does. This is why the 6.5 X 55 Swede is so common. The hunter pops the lungs and the animal trots away or even walks away. My Dad has shot 21 moose, majority with a 270 Win Remington 760 pump. More than not, he unloaded the entire clip into the chest. I would consider the .308 to be more than adequate for moose. Elk are a different story because they almost always run away in a frantic scene. .308 and 30-06 is good for moose IMO 338-06 or 338 Win Mag. is better for elk IMO The larger frontal area, greater shock and greater hemmorage ability of the .338 is better for wild elk and will lessen tracking distance. | |||
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From the previous responses, it seems apparent that many posters have not actually been on a moose hunt. In my experience, the bigger the cartridge, the better. It's not that a .308 or other smallbores won't kill a moose; they will. The problem is that moose will try to get into some of the nastiest muck immediately after being shot. Depending on where you hunt moose, this can be a real problem. Since the downed animal must be retrieved, the faster they drop, the better. | |||
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Here is what my wife did with a 308 & factory ammo. One shot. 308 is more than up to the challenge.    180gr bullet. 159gr retained. I see no problem with that. ______________________ Did I mention I love Sako's  | |||
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I wouldn't hesitate to take on the biggest moose or brown bear in Alaska with a 308,if the shot wasn't there I wouldn't take it. Guides are required to carry stopping rifles mostly as a result of buck fever and hunters not used to the harshness of alaska wilds and weather. I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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I have never hunted any realy big game just the White Tails of Minneasota and Texas.. but after i got my hands on some old Barns originals in 250gr and tryed loading them up in my .308 win I would not hesitate to take big game with that.... used 37.0 grs of Reloder 15, Rem 9.5M primer Remington case... My gun has a 24" barrle with a 1-10" twist and at 100 yards 3 shot group was under 1" and i took one shot at a Rail Road Tie and it went clean thru at 100 yards... I think that would do one nice job on a Moose Sholder... I am betting that loading a Horndy 220gr Round nose would do the job as well... Shot Placment is key !!! | |||
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Thats it 500!! I loaded 100 of the 250 originals yrs ago for a friend and he loved them to the point of selling his 338. I expected some flak, thanks Jim I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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Probably the best reason to carry a bruiser is for the times a trophy animal doesn't give's you a less than ideal shot but the odds are in your favor, Brush,wind, and bad light all add to the difficulties of the hunt. My personal Kodiak hunt this spring will see me with a 358 Norma as opposed to a 308, but then again I'm on a party permit with a traditional archer. I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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True, but muck or not, it isn't usually a 1/2 mile away like an elk full of adrenaline. Both are best served with larger bores still I would choose the 308 better for moose than elk. | |||
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Hit the front shoulder, different story. | |||
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ar corey, I've seen that short death dash leave one in a deadfall piled up over 5 feet high, and another in 4 feet of water (after traversing the 2 feet deep mud). My contention is simple. It isn't simply a matter of what cartridge will kill a moose. I'm sure moose have fallen to many cartridges that probably shouldn't have even been considered for that purpose. As long as a dead moose was the result, it is a moot point. I just recommend a big thumper instead of a small thumper, if given a choice. | |||
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How many moose have you seen killed Sam? I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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 but very true!! | |||
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Knock Down: Of course, killing game can be complicated by all kinds of minutia and anecdotes. That being said, do know this: That bullet does not hit the animal harder than it pushes back on the rifle. If it doesn't knock YOU down, it won't knock a moose down. What you hit, damage or break with the concentrated force of the bullet or the surprise of it will cause the animal to stumble, trip or collapse if you hit a neck vertebra. Just like the fellas said: shooting a moose in the "Pumphouse" will cause internal bleeding and a wound channel that kills the animal. Moose are so ENORMOUS, your piddlin' little 30-06 won't push them around much. Or at all! If you exercised your freedom and aren't in jail, thank a liberal. | |||
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Different how? It was a 180 yard off hand shot through light scrub. Yes it was a perfect hit, but I always hear you MUST us a premium bullet & big rifle to get the job done. This factory Federal round managed to go through the light scrub, hit the Moose penetrating both shoulders & still retain 159gr. Nothing wrong with that. Besides, when your shooting Moose is about filling the freezer, why would one want to take a less than perfect shot & chance a bunch of meat damage because you have to fill it full of holes. I very happy with the 600 lbs of meat in my freezer & very proud of my wife for the great shot she made. Every year she amazes me with what she can do with that little 308. ______________________ Did I mention I love Sako's | |||
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Different in that it wouldn't retain 160 gr. and you might not get through the shoulder at all, have a tough tracking job, or a lost animal. You can buy a Lee Classic loader for $30.00 and load some Barnes bullets for that 308. Those Federal bullets are okay for deer but unless you are crawling in moose numbers, perfect shots like that aren't always going to present themselves every year.
I just watched a video of Jim Shockey guiding Alaskan moose. They see 20-30 moose a day and choose a huge bull. Yes, they have the option to wait for the perfect broadside shot as did your wife. Where I hunt, not possible. A front quarter-to shot must be taken if presented. | |||
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at my local cabelas they have the neatest little M77 mannlicher stocked 308 with a vx-ii scope for $700 and something. getting the stock cut to size and a new recoil pad might just be the setup for my wife we are looking for since I am the one who started this topic. thanks all for the input. Jeff | |||
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Here in Alaska I have been shooting moose for 45 years. I have watched my family and friends shoot moose using calibers like the .243 Win., .270 Win., 30-06, 300 Win. Mag. and Short Mag., 338-06, .358 Win., .35 Whelen, 45-70, 338 Win. Mag. and .375 H&H, .416, etc. All of the old timers I met mostly used a .270 Win. or a 30-06. I have used the .338 Win. Mag. for 35 years and my Dad used the .264 Win Mag. and 140 grain Nosler Partitions. Almost all of the shots I have been involved in were under 150 yards. When hit in the lungs moose some times take a few steps and stand there and some times they might run 25 yards or so. Bust up the brain, neck bone, spine or pelvic area and the moose falls over. When the great 30-06 was making it's early reputation in America it did so with bullets that were going slower then what the .308 Win. is capable of today with a stout 165 or 180 grain bullet. Those bullets were not near the equal of today's "super bullets" when it comes to penetration and weight retention. Back in the early 80's my chronograph showed that none of the factory 180 grain 300 Win. Mag. loads I tested were going over 2,850 fps at the muzzle and none of them were loaded with today's "super bullets". Yet the .300 Win. Mag. was considered a great long range moose caliber. More moose are shot in Finland each year then Alaska, I mean many more. I think the 6.5x55 Swede is a very popular moose round over there. A .30 caliber bullet is a .30 caliber bullet whether it is coming out of a .308 Win., 30-06 or a .300 mag. A .308 Win. loaded with a stout bullet such as a Nosler Partition, Swift A Frame, Barnes X, etc. is a "good enough" moose round. The guy using such a combination is usually the one who determines the success of the caliber and bullet. Just don't try shooting into the next zip code with it when shooting at moose. | |||
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I know perfectly well what the .308 was designed for. My point being that saying a 220 gr. at 2310 FPS (ACTUALLY CHRONOGRAPHED BY ME) is totally inferior to the ADVERTISED velocity of 2400 FPS from a 30-06 it complete and total BULLSHIT! Rather than mouth of repeating what the "egg-spurts" in the gun rags say, try it for yourself. If i could find a cople of boxes of 30-06 with 220 gr. bullets I'd run them over the chronograph and see if they really do 2400 FPS. Somehow, based on running some 180 gr. 06 ammo over the chronograph that did not even come cclose to the advertised 2700 FPS, I'm thinking my handload with the 220 gr. Sierra may be closer to what the 06 is putting out in factory ammo that what Madison Avenue says they do. Remember, I was comparing my perfectly safe handload with the advertised speed of factory ammo. I know damn well I can handload a 30-06 round with a 220 gr. bullet to a noticaly higher velocity that factory, but that was not my point. Although comparing a handload vs a factory load is somewhat an apples and oranges thing, it's kind of hard to do otherwisw when one round is handicapped by not being factory loaded with the bullet in question. The point is, a 220 gr. bullet at 2310 FPS has about as much thump as an 06 with the same bullet going (?) 100 FPS faster. Ain't it strange wwhen someone says in other threads that a 100 FPS difference does not mean squat when hunting until we start talking about the .308. I don't say take my word on it. I just say try it and see for yourself. Problem is in the high velocity craze that just keeps on getting worse, a 220 gr. bullet at 2300 FPS is considered to bounce of an animal and making him mad. No flame intended BTW, but keeping your mind closed to a possibility without trying it is, well????????????????? Paul B. | |||
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You don't have an ideal shot----but you have a MAGNUM so you can take it anyways? A MAGNUM increases the size of the kill zone---you can hit outside it and still get the animal? If not the ideal shot---you don't take it. | |||
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That mirrors my experience with the moose I shot. I was pushing 150 gr. A-frames out of my .270 at about 3000 fps. Took the moose through both shoulders at about 240 yards. Bullet broke both (probably the spine too) and ended up under the hide. Picture perfect bullet (it did smear most of the lead out of the front core, but considering the bone it went through, it's to be expected). North61's observation though about bigger bullets making bigger holes is right on, though. Looking at the bullet I recovered, its frontal area was pretty small. If I go again, I'd probably still use my .270! friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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I'm with AK Guy, shot or been with people who have shot moose with 7/08,308 ( 150 grn corlok I loaded) 30-06, 7mag, 375 hawk and 10.75x68. The only one that DRT was one I neck shot with a .308. The rest ran 20-50yds, all were 1 shot kills I might add. | |||
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Every time I read a post like this it amazes me anything can be killed with a cup and core bullet. I bet the low and slow .303 brit has killed tens of thousands of deer elk and moose in Canada, and its share of bear with the lowly slow moving cup and core and never a thought of being under gunned. Granted if I were to spend big bucks on a hunt, I would most likely use and Swift A frame, but a heave cup and core would likely do quite well at .308 velocity. I think the vast majority of cup and core "failures, which to me means a live animal" are happening at "magnum" velocities, yet look at all the game killed every year with Remington CL and Hornady Interlock bullets. | |||
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Hey Jeff that rifle sounds great to me. Get that thing for your wife and have her practice, practice, practice. Then a well built 165 grain bullet in the neck or lungs and you guys will be knee deep in Moose meat! | |||
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One of Alaska's best known Master Guides was a guy named Hal Waugh. His wife Julie used a Mod. 70 .308 Win. That rifle is down the road from me with Hal's "Big Nan", a .375 Weatherby. That old guide seemed to like the .308 if that means anything... | |||
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I would not hesitate to hunt/shoot every moose on the Planet with a 308... EXCET for one thing.... I just do not have that much freezer space...  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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