This applies to big game hunting rifles:

How many of you guys only shoot your rifles clean in the field? How many of you only shoot them dirty or fouled while in the field?

I know some guys that like to clean after every group they fire or clean before they go hunting. I personally feel that's alittle too anal and I also feel it can hinder accuracy a good deal in some rifles.

I have some rifles that will shoot great groups from a clean barrel but, several seem to throw that first shot or maybe first couple (fouler shot). I'm not talking about an extreme flyer but flyers none the less.

Just for the heck of it I always shoot at least one or two foulers from a clean barrel before group shooting.

I've actually seen several factory barrels take a few foulers before they get good consistency and after those foulers they shot surprizingly well.

I clean before range sessions or load development whether they need it or not but, when it comes time for hunting season I settle on the load that faired the best during testing, clean the barrel well, fire a group to confirm zero with that particular load, and place the rifle in the safe un-cleaned and slightly fouled. This has been working for me for years so, I really don't see any need to change but, just got to wondering what most of you are doing as far as cleaning goes on your hunting rigs.

So, You hunt Clean or Dirty?

Have a Good One,

Reloader

I've never had much luck w/ first round perfection form a clean/oiled bbl. I always have to travel somewhere to hunt so sight in shots are usually the norm, then go hunting.

Verification group and put it away most of the time. Though I like to know what a barrel will do completely clean & semi clean, so I never just foul off a shot I still shoot for groups just in case circumstances warrant starting out on other then a fouled barrel I know what to expect. My 2 main used CF's shoot well on a clean barrel so I don't worry about it if it happens the verification group is more for my benefit I think !

I am pretty lucky in that most of my rifles do not change point of impact enough to worry about whether they are clean or dirty. I usually clean after shooting and then just pull the rifle out of the cabinet and run a dry patch through the barrel and go hunting. If I have shot a verification group, I just shoot it as it is.

Most of my rifles dont change much between clean or dirty as far as zero. I shoot my rifles year round when possible and clean before a hunt and then fire a couple of shots to reverify zero and refoul the barrel. I always hunt with a dirty barrel except when hunting with my Muzzleloader.

ALWAYS, always shoot a couple foulers before you hunt.

I foul 'em first. In the case of my .416 Rem, there is a significant difference in the POI between a clean barrel and a fouled barrel. After every range session, I clean it, but foul it before I hunt......

most times when I carry them its in my boat, atv or snowmachine I just make sure the bore is free of obstructions and generally pass a brush thru and call it good. Most I shoot at are just moose and bear so it is moa of moose or bear. not a big deal--I guess

I like the dirty girls! Most of my rifles shoot better fouled, at least more consistently, so I usually am shooting the rifle intended to go on a hunt at the range prior to, and just push a clean patch through after shooting groups good enough for my tastes, just to get out any loose stuff, and leave em alone otherwise til after the hunt.

I have a couple of rifles I shoot coated bullets in, that I seldom clean at all.....

Well 99.999999999% of the time I'll go the the range just before the hunt. Verify the zero. Oil the outside and not touch the bore. If I travel by air, go to the Mtn from my sea level home or if I've lost control of my case I'll recheck zero. Oil the outside and not touch the bore.

My .30-06 shoots better the dirtier it gets. I've stopped cleaning it because it does so much better dirty than clean. But that's counter to my usual experience that rifles at some point will get to dirty to group well. I have an A Bolt in 243 that I have been shooting Barnes Solids in. After ten shots, it patterns!

LWD

Dirty only. I only clean every 30-40 rounds. Fire a fouling shot or two before I hunt with the gun again.

Guess it goes back to my hunting roots. I shoot them clean because when I got started in hunting the weather in my region tended to be more than a bit damp, and rust was a concern. So clean and cared for each and every night. Also the ranges which would be called upon to shoot were really quite close for a rifle, so that last little bit of precision wasn't required. If I ws hunting the desert, I would almost surely hunt a dry and fouled or seasoned bore.

Mine shoot about 1/2" low on the first couple of shots on a clean barrel. After that all is well.

Another vote for going with the dirty girls.

I'm a dirty guy min of 5 before I hunt, recheck sight in where hunting, alitude and cold has changed my POI in the past.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
I've never had much luck w/ first round perfection form a clean/oiled bbl. I always have to travel somewhere to hunt so sight in shots are usually the norm, then go hunting.

Same for me. A few sight-in shots and leave the barrel fouled and hunt with it that way. In camp at the end of the hunt, I'll run an oiled patch through the bore for the trip home. Clean the rifle when I get home.

-Bob F.

DIRTY

I guess I would say uncleaned. I shoot year round and almost always clean my rifles after a range trip. Sometimes it is only a few patches with Hoppes and sometimes it is a real good scrubbing. Right before season though my last trip to the range I only run a dry patch thru the bore. My rifles shoot about the same clean or fouled though so it really don't matter.

Some will be OK with a clean barrel, some not. It seems to me the ones with the better barrels are more likely to need some fouling shots. I hunt with a dirty barrel, if you can call it that. I would prefer a clean barrel with a couple of fouling shots.

I never trust a clean bbl.... if it's clean, it gets fired before the hunt...

Of course, i've never lived where i couldn't fire my guns either... so it's easy to shoot them or practise any time that i want..

DM

All my hunting needs to be with a dirty barrel.

I always hunt with a fouled barrel. But a lot depends on the particular rifle. I have one .270 that shoots a lot better after it has about 20 rounds thru it after cleaning. I also have a 30-06 that likes a cleaner barrel - it shoots best with only 2 or 3 fouling shots after cleaning.

I'm am a bit of a clean freak, so I like to clean my barrels after every range session. Mostly, one or two fouling round puts the gun back on the mark.

However, I have one gun, a M70 in 338WM, that really likes to wallow in the mud. She really doesn't settle down and shoot close groups until a dozen to twenty rounds go down the spout. You can imagine how long it took a clean freak like myself to find that out.

While I understand the old theory of folulng shots due to cleaning with a solvent then applyimg a light coat of oil for corrosion control. However, with modern cleaning products like "WipeOut, etc," which do not require any oil after cleaning, is a fouling shot redundant?

I hope not to start something here but I think that proper barrel break in attributes to first shot accuracy. I have found that if the barrel is broke in properly then the first shot is more likely than not going to shoot where you are looking. On guns I've bought used and had nothing to do about what tube is on the rifle I've found that they most generally shoot better fouled. I think that most rifles shoot best after a couple of fouling shots.

Dirty, or slightly fouled.

Example: When we go to Wyoming or Colorado: rifles come out of the safe with pristine barrels. We get to range in Wyoming the day before we hunt. I shoot 3 rounds at 100, 3 at 300, and 1-3 at 500.

Then I go hunting.

If taking a rifle to KY, I'll shoot the rifle at our range the day before: 3 rounds at 100, 3 at 250 from a clean bore. Then go hunting.

Now, if I know I'm taking a rifle out west and for whatever reason do not plan on taking it out of the safe again until the next year, regardless of how many shots I put through it, I bring it home and reclean it for storage. I won't let it sit for a year without cleaning.

Slightly fouled.

The first one are two are off by about an inch at 100 yrds. The rest group very tightly. I once got my barrel on my .30-06 squeaky clean with a foaming product. Took me half a box of shells to get it settled down again.

quote:

Originally posted by Reloader:
...How many of you guys only shoot your rifles clean in the field?

All of mine. They are pristine clean, burnished with Moly Grease (with a little extra dab of Moly Powder), then a couple of clean patches to remove any excess lube.

quote:

I know some guys that like to clean after every group they fire or clean before they go hunting. I personally feel that's alittle too anal and I also feel it can hinder accuracy a good deal in some rifles. ...

I actually prefer to re-clean after every shot and re-lube. The only similarity with an anus is making sure the entire thing is "wiped good".

But, I was taught how to properly care for a firearm and tools in general. A lack of proper care will eventually show up and can be costly to correct the damage.

Don't need any "Dirty Women" either, I prefer the pristine clean ones, just like my rifles.
---

Going to "clean and re-lube" a couple right now that haven't even been outside in a good while (rifles - not women ) .

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

They are clean before they go in the safe either after the range or coming back from a hunt.
3 rounds to fowl and 3 more to check/verify POI.
(if I have to adjust scope, 3 more min.)
If it's nasty weather, I will squeeze one out at the end of the day to purge the bore.

I must be a bit unusual.. (yeah, I've been tolf that before.. )

I have a Ruger in 270, a pre '64 win in 243, and a CZ in 223 and all shoot just fine (sub MOA) whether clean or dirty. Having said that, as the crud builds up (50+ shots) accuracy starts to drop off (ie MOA +), and that's when they get cleaned.

But even with a clean barrel, they still shoot the same group, and to the same POI.

Am I doing something wrong?

Depends on the gun and climate. Guns can be like horses. Some are "easy keepers", some down-right persnicketty. Got and old Remington 721 .270 that hasn't had a bath in 35+ years!!
Keep it clean by shooting it often. The other fancy 'ol gal is a Browning safari grade .308 Norma mag. She needs lots of attention before she performs. But, when she does, WOW!! Only gives the old guy six chances though.

Reloader ----- I will always foul the barrel before hunting. The only time I would shoot a prestine barrel is if in a hunting situation I was forced to clean the barrel bacause of snow, rain or crude of somekind getting in the barrel by misshap. Some barrels take more fouling before cleaning. I have a 7mm STW that will shoot 40 plus round before needing cleaning. It also depends on the bullet you use, the coated bullets needed more fouling shots to get the barrel back to top form in my experience. Some barrels of mine have shot extremely well while clean then the next time out the opposite being true. To be safe, foul after cleaning for maximum accuracy. ----- Some shooters make fun of the practice, I say it depends on the degreee of accuracy you desire. If you want those one hole groups, you will foul after cleaning, if you settle for MOA or larger it usually does not matter. The MOA is fine for hunting accuracy, so pick your poison, that is what shooting is all about, to please the shooter. Good shooting.

Gentlemen,
It has very much to do with the rifle. I have a M70 Stainless Classic in 30-06 that takes 2-3 shots to settle down. They both tend to be low and to the left, out of an ice cold bbl (It was well below freezing during my last shooing session). It was "sort of" broken in, but not to the same degree that some on the forum here do it. That gun will normally group under an inch on a good day.
On the other hand, I have a M70 stainless FWT Classic that groups just over an inch, and it shoots perfectly out of a spotless bbl. I bought it used, so I don't know if it was broke in or not.
Just a couple of observations,
Straight Shooting,
Graham

When I take my rifle out at the beginning of hunting season, I fire 2-3 rounds to check the zero. If it needs adjustment, it gets it then. Once the rifle is shooting where I want, I don't put anything down the tube until after rifle season is over. When I go to NM or CO I fire 2 shots to check zero. Usually it is right on and no adjustment is required. At the end of the rifle season, it gets a thorough cleaning and back in the safe she goes. Been doing this for over 30 years without any problems. Perhaps I'm lucky!

What LBGUY said...

M70 hit it on the head.

The last new rifle I bought is a WSM Savage 110 variant. It has a tight barrel and does not need a fouling shot. If I had a choice all my rifles would be like that one.

Range work for this one is one shot, one wet patch followed by two dry patches. It shoots well under 1 MOA. If I am in a climate where we get wet I can attend the barrel daily and know where she shoots.

Rifles that need a fouling shot or two have a 'loose' barrel and need some carbon and guilding metal to sightly decrease the bore and properly grip a bullet.

The bottom line is you need to spend range time to know what you and your rifle need for optimum performance.

I clean mine at the end of the season. Before the next season I head to the range to recheck sights and groups and don't clean again til the season is over. This is assuming no heavy rain or diry conditions.

I never use to pay much attention, before I started AR. Now I confess to making sure it's on before a trip and not cleaning until after the trip. In other words I shoot a couple foulers as a preparation.

i shoot mine dirty or fouled, that stops the flyers, clean em after the hunt.jjmp