quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:

quote:

I have hunted deer in Minnesota so I am familiar with their size there, versus here. However my biggest buck I took north of Hibbing, field cleaned at 265 lbs. I took it with a 444 Marlin at 100 yds. Lung shot it still made in 50 yds before it went down.

The 100 grain bullet in a 6.5 mm would have done as good of a job and I think would have dropped it instantly, from, the results I have seen using it on game here in Oregon., and once hunting in Montana.

I don't agree with this conclusion when comparing a large bullet to a small high velocity bullet at woods ranges on big deer. Sure it can be done on easy shots but if the hunting is hard the high velocity small bullet is a poor choice.

My experience has been the opposite - a good hit with a high-velocity round has always put game down faster FOR ME than a similar hit with a low-velocity round. The worst performers I have witnessed in this regard have been Foster-type shotgun slugs, which seem to me to kill more by blood loss alone, more like a broadhead arrow. HV rifle bullets appear to impart more nervous-system shock to the game, causing a more immediate collapse.

If I were asked to specify the velocity range where the change in effect on the game takes place, I could not do so. It is possible that the bullet from a .444 is going fast enough at 100 yards that it has the desired effect when a shotgun slug does not. But I have had enough bad exerience with Foster slugs that I always recommend a rifle instead, where one has the option!

I guess here we need to specify what a "small bullet" is... I like the 130 or 150-grain .270, or the 160/175-grain 7mm. In 6.5mm, I'd want at least a 125 grain Nosler Partition....

I currently have 17 260s, 5 6.5x55s, 3 6.5-284s, and 2 256 Newtons, so I think that I can say with some degree of 6.5mm experience. IMO, there isn't $0.05 worth of PRACTICAL difference in field performance among these 4 cartridges.

I think that you should pick the rifle that best meets your son's needs and then pick the cartridge. We have some pretty big whitetails in Nebraska and killing them has never presented a problem, as long as I place the bullet through the lungs. All of the 6.5x55s that I have ever had have been long actions and most have long throats to handle bullets up to 160 grains. I used the 6.5x55 for years with excellent results, but switched to the 260 when Remington introduced the 7 stainless synthetic. If I was going to buy a 6.5mm off the rack, my choice would be the 700 laminated stainless mountain rifle, as I think that it is an outstanding value. I like the 129 grain Hornady, either SST or SpirePoint, as an all-around deer bullet. I have shot some does with the 95 grain VMax, but would not use it in situations where I couldn't pick my shots.

Jeff

260 Rem Guy;

YOU have Seventeen ( 17) 260s???

I think that would make you the undesputed AR 260 Guru!

( And I thought I was bad having too many of a couple of cartridges in my gun safe??? )

Cheers
seafire

FWIW.
I could not agree more with 260remguy. The Remington Mountain in 260 is a peach!
They are a nice weight, shoot straight and loaded with the 129 grain Hornady Spire point, kill deer very well from any reasonable angle. (I have not tried the Texas heart shot).

quote:

but can't seem to get it back from her now that she's 15.

That sounds familiar. I originally got my daughter a 55 back when she was 9. It was a cheap investment form the start that turned out expensive. It was a Kimber sporterized Mauser which came in a pathetic excuse for a stock. I topped it with a new scope and a fajen stock and it now shoots nicely.

However she ended up using my 25/06 at 9 to take her first little buck with then later at 18 she took this nice 8 point with the 55,

Since however she has seemed to hang on tightly to my 25 during deer season and got this one with is last fall at a little over 250 yds.

I personally would choose the 55 over the 260 but that is just me. I have shot both factory as well as hundereds of handloads from the one we have and it will reach out and touch stuff like was mentioned out of proportion to what you would think. I would also get something in a wood stock that can be custom fit to you boy. It isn't to expensive to find a stock for Rem's or Win's second hand when he gets a little bigger.You can also add in a recoil arrestor to the butt of the stock and tame it even more.

Good luck and I hope he enjoys his hunting with you as much as my daughter and I have enjoyed it together. Just keep an eye on your favorite rifle, or your likly to end up short one day.

Thanks for the info on the 100g bullet seafire. Was figuring on loading some variety of it up for daughter this year as she complained (for the first time) about the recoil--that from a 120g load. She started shooting it at 12 I think and has taken a number of deer with it over the last six years. Remington Mountain Rifle 260--it has been a great package for her.

260remguy,

Hello from Bellevue, we are almost neighbors. I'm gonna "blood" my 6.5x55 CZ550 FS using 140gr Hornady SPs during this year's annual trek in Pine Ridge (Ft. Robinson).

I was thinking about pulling out one of my stashed M98 actions and assembling a 6.5-284, but if there isn't that much difference between it and the 'Twede then I'll save it for something else, 9.3x62 maybe...

quote:

Originally posted by tomk:
Thanks for the info on the 100g bullet seafire. Was figuring on loading some variety of it up for daughter this year as she complained (for the first time) about the recoil--that from a 120g load. She started shooting it at 12 I think and has taken a number of deer with it over the last six years. Remington Mountain Rifle 260--it has been a great package for her.

TomK;

My pleasure and welcome to the forum! I wish her luck... for low recoil in a 260, can I also pass on a recommendation of 20 grains of Blue Dot and a 100 grain Ballistic Tip.... MV will be about 2450 fps from a 22 inch barrel... zeroed 3.5 inches high at 100 yds, it will be dead on at about 210 to 220 yds, and one can still hit game at 250 yds, if they hold their aim steady in the first place.....

17.5 grains of Blue Dot will give an MV of about 2250 fps, and once again zeroed at 3.5 high at 100 yds, it will dead on at 200 yds... and be good for minute of whitetail out to about 230 to 240 yds.....Recoil will be about 45 to 50 % of a regular 260/ 100 grain load... Equal to about shooting a 223 or so...

Just a little more suggestions you might like to play with... I think you will also like the accuracy!!!

cheers
seafire

Gidday Guys,

Well one thing is for sure, There is one heck of a lot of knowledge available on this site from some very knowledgable people.

Not only are these people knowledgable they have a great deal of wisdom. Yes there is a big difference.

The big question is which rifle are you going to get not which calibre. There is for all intents no difference between the calibres, the difference is between which rifles they are available in.

Pick the rifle you want.

If you want a Remington model 7 you are stuck with 260. If you want a Tikka you are stuck with the 6.5x55. If you want a Sako (my choice) you take which ever one they can get first.

No deer is going to notice the difference. Your son will most probably enjoy the model seven the most as it is a dream to carry but make sure you go with the laminated stock rather than the synthetic.

What ever your choice it will be the right one. There is no a wrong answer to this question.

Happy Hunting
Hamish

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:

quote:

I have hunted deer in Minnesota so I am familiar with their size there, versus here. However my biggest buck I took north of Hibbing, field cleaned at 265 lbs. I took it with a 444 Marlin at 100 yds. Lung shot it still made in 50 yds before it went down.

The 100 grain bullet in a 6.5 mm would have done as good of a job and I think would have dropped it instantly, from, the results I have seen using it on game here in Oregon., and once hunting in Montana.

I don't agree with this conclusion when comparing a large bullet to a small high velocity bullet at woods ranges on big deer. Sure it can be done on easy shots but if the hunting is hard the high velocity small bullet is a poor choice.

My experience has been the opposite - a good hit with a high-velocity round has always put game down faster FOR ME than a similar hit with a low-velocity round. The worst performers I have witnessed in this regard have been Foster-type shotgun slugs, which seem to me to kill more by blood loss alone, more like a broadhead arrow. HV rifle bullets appear to impart more nervous-system shock to the game, causing a more immediate collapse.

If I were asked to specify the velocity range where the change in effect on the game takes place, I could not do so. It is possible that the bullet from a .444 is going fast enough at 100 yards that it has the desired effect when a shotgun slug does not. But I have had enough bad exerience with Foster slugs that I always recommend a rifle instead, where one has the option!

I guess here we need to specify what a "small bullet" is... I like the 130 or 150-grain .270, or the 160/175-grain 7mm. In 6.5mm, I'd want at least a 125 grain Nosler Partition....

My comment is about the use of a 100 gr 6.5 mm bullet for woods hunting in the conditions that I am familar with. That to me means that I may want to shoot at running game or game that is at an angle thats difficult in terms of what the bullet has to penetrate.

My point is that the light 100 gr bullet will work very well of course if it hits a soft vital spot on the game. But if the game turns and it must penetrate only a shallow wound may be made and off goes the animal on three legs.

In no way was I suggesting Foster slugs or even thinking of them.

I look at it this way. I can reach for a 260 for big game hunting or a 358. I reach for the 358 and feel that it's an advantage to me for the difficult shots.

As to the 125 gr 6.5 mm Partition we had a discussion on that bullet just a short time ago. A friend shot 17 whitetails last year with 120 gr Remington and Sierra bullets out of a M7 260 Rem. He only takes easy shots. His butcher complained about meat damage. So he shot two more or a total of 19 with the 125 gr Partition and he lost both deer. They were both trailed by more than one person. One was found the next day and the other was never found. He insists that all were very good hits.

Now the short case 243's, 250's and 6.5's are neat for beginners. I am not a beginner and I can shoot 308's and 358's. I feel good carrying enough gun.

Savage, I believe you have just made a compelling case for 100g partitions in the 260!

All bullets must expand and penetrate. If one uses a small bullet for the game then it must be able to penetrate. That's were a light premium bullet would be a good compromise.

Just using a heavy for the caliber small diameter bullet will work most of the time of course but it will always make a smaller hole than a larger diameter bullet.

That friend of mine is now going to use a 350 RM for deer! I sold him a carton of Rem 200 gr Corelokts for it. He has many many guns and is also a dealer.

I built a 260 Rem on a 6.5 Arisaka action. The one thing I believe is wrong with the 260 is that the SAAMI specs have the throats too short, only if you want to use the heavier bullets such as 140grs and up. With that said I throated mine out farther. Being the original 6.5 Jap round was much longer then the 260 Rem, I had plenty of magazine room to load out the heavier bullets without enroaching on the powder capacity. With that said, in my opinion, there's no way a 6.5x55 can beat it. I don't buy into that longer neck for longer bullets either, there is plenty enough neck on the 260 Rem. That long neck theory has been proven wrong with all the short neck cartridges out there like the 300 Win Mag and the 223 Rem to name a few. The only one negative I have with the 260 Rem in my Arisaka is it took alot of work on the magazine and feed rail areas to get the short stubby (as compared to the original 6.5 Jap) to feed reliably. In that respect a conversion to the 6.5 Swede would have been much easier.

Max,

With MY experience, I tend to disagree somewhat, as I have never had a 223 shoot like my 222's or 221. Also, I had a 6mm Rem that drove tacks, and it was a Ruger, 243's have done well, and likewise, my 6.5x55's have all shot well, but I have had some 260's that were finicky.

I think perhaps gun to gun can vary, perhaps a tighter spec custom barrel minimizes variations with shorter necks, I DID read about how powder burns in the shoulder neck junction and its possible effect on accuracy.

Perhaps splitting hairs, but I seem in MY experience to have had less fickleness or whatever in accuracy with rounds that have had a longer neck. Personally, I always felt Rem could have made the 260 with the same neck length as the 6.5x55.

Just wanted to share my experience here, not argue with your experience.

I have never shot a 6.5x55 but after reading all these posts would love to try one.I do have a rem 260 in bdl,had one in a ruger and the rem mtn rifle but sold both of them and both were as you say tack drivers.
I have a lot of different calibers,shoot at the range on a weekly bases,and usually use a different caliber every year for hunting,just because I like to.Used the 260 this past year,we have 6 tags a year here and used the muzzleloader for the first four and the 260 for the last two.took one at 442 yards useing a 120 gr bullet.This year planning on useing a rem classic in 7/08 and a new tikka 308 that I just got.
If I had to sell all but one of my rifles it would be an easy choice to keep the 260 it is one heck of a deer rifle.Have taken deer with it useing 100,120,125,129,and 140 gr loads and all worked great.
In my situation and my age I probably will never get to hunt where the deer are way larger or elk or moose,but if I did I would have to rethink the choices.

Well, my experience with the 260 has been in a 6.5/308 custom, and 2 Rem model 7's.

The custom shot well, great at times, then other times there would be fliers, could have been brass, etc. but I do know it is a good round for accuracy, so perhaps the initial brass Rem come out with was worse than now in variation of necks and wt.

I hear the brass is fairly good so perhaps it improved. The factory pencil thin barrels on Model 7's also could be an issue.

I bought 100 rounds of Remington brass and I've been very unhappy with it. About two loading and there's not enough neck tension. I switched to using military 308 necked down and it's been alot better for me and accuracy was better also. It seemed the Rem brass had thin necks on the lot that I got. The accuracy of my custom Arisaka with sporter weight barrel is consistant. I've taken deer with it using 140 Rem bullets and was very impressed with the performance. I have the 243 and the 7mm-08 and I think the 260 Rem recoil wise is pretty much like a 243. The 7mm-08 I notice is a tad heavier. The 7mm-08 is one of my favorite rounds but that's another topic. Rick Jamison said once that if there were a perfect whitetail deer cartridge he would think the 260 Rem is it. I would add then the 6.5 Swede would also since they are so close. He feels it's a better big game round then the 243 Win and that it's very capable of taking bigger game like elk, yet still versatile enough for varmints.

I have both a 6.5x55 (CZ 550FS) and .260 Rem (Kimber 84M). I've found my .260 doesn't like 140gr bullets whereas the 6.5x55 thrives on them. The CZ has a slightly faster barrel and this may be the reason. For the 260, I have some 125gr Partitions and 129gr Interlocks to experiment with. The external ballistic difference between the two cartridges isn't an issue and they should be considered ballistic twins. Long vs. short action....a half inch one way or the other poses no issues to me either. Pick your cartridge, load, shoot, and enjoy backstraps!

The 260 is a 6.5x51, while the 6.5-284 and 6.5x55 both have cases that measure 55mm long. I don't think that there is any North American game smaller that a moose that can't be cleanly taken with a 140 grain Partition from any of the usual 6.5mm bore cartridges and I don't think that the addition or subtraction of 4mm of case length/capacity is going to make a meaningful difference in field performance 98% of the time. Proper placement of a properly constructed projectile will take game every time. If you can't be sure of your ability to properly place your shot, perhaps you shouldn't squeeze the trigger, regardless of the cartridge/bullet/rifle combination.

If limited to 1 short action 6.5, I'd pick either the 260 or 6.5-284, depending on the intended application. If limited to 1 long action 6.5, I'd pick the 256 Newton.

Jeff