There was a point to my "king for a day" topic.....

In reading all the replies (and on another forum as well) it's amazing how many folks have asked for a 6.5MM offering.....many in 6.5-06 or in 6.5-284....a few in 6.5WSM.

Also it's amazing the number of folks wanting to obsolete the RSAUMs and WSMs and WSSMs.

Given this reply by you folks.....who was asked by the big gun makers what you wanted?...Where is their marketing folks?????...Why don't they ask us what we want?????

I just did and it seems that in many cases a good 6.5 offering is sellable.

Strangely enough the stuff they bought us recently is exactly what we don't want.

Do these guys get it?.....I'm very confused......Have any of you been asked what you'd like?

Probably because they just don't want to know. I once asked a Ruger Rep why don't they build the RSI in .358 Win.? For my purposes, that would be a pretty nice rifle. His answer was laced with a few four letter words. My answer back was, "You could have just said it wasn't feasable." While my policy will not hurt Ruger financially one damn bit, I will buy no new Ruger firearms. used one fine, but no new ones regardless of how bad I might want it.
I once bought a brand new Winchester push feed Featherweight. The dealer had that rifle on his shelf for years and no one would buy it. I got a darn good smokin' deal on it, but it wouldn't shoot worth beans. I wrote Winchester about my problem, and they said, "Take it to a gunsmith." Now this was a brand new gun that I had not had in my possession much over a month. I did take it to a gunsmith and sent "Big W' the bill asking for reimbursment. It's been about three years. Think I'll ever get paid? FWIW, it turned out the scope itself was the problem, a brand new Leupold. I sent it back and within a week it came back fixed. No new Winchesters for me, but I'll buy Leupold anytime.
Paul B.

vapodog,

I think they did ask us about a 6.5mm. They called one the .260 Remington and the other the 6.5 STW; we didn't/don't buy them. They might be wrong, but they did "ask."

I wonder whether they care (from a money perspective) whether a cartridge "makes it." I'd guess "yes," but they make money when they sell a WSM, both rifle and cartridge, regardless. It seems to me if you can't buy a WSM cartridge 5 years from now they trust you to buy yet another rifle. No damage there to the makers.

Jaywalker

Also remember, you are talking to a very small and mostly knowledgable crowd here. Probably 95% of hunters and gun buyers out there only shoot during hunting season and if they're convinced they need something else, that's what they'll buy.

It's my understanding that when politicians want to foist something on us they suspect we don't want they ask us the people what we would like.
After a due period of supposed analysing the data, they tell us that what we want is what they wanted us to have.

Could it be the same with gun manufacturers?

It smells a lot like arrogance to me....
I think the American gun makers are related to our car makers....
Don

Vapodog,

I wouldn't get too noisy about it, if the Winchester marketing wienies get wind of it they will be dropping the 6.5x55 in the Model 70 to replace it with a 17 WSM that makes the 220 Swift look like its easy on barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:
Vapodog,

I wouldn't get too noisy about it, if the Winchester marketing wienies get wind of it they will be dropping the 6.5x55 in the Model 70 to replace it with a 17 WSM that makes the 220 Swift look like its easy on barrels.

it's surprising to me that some nit wit at reminchester hasn't discovered that there's no 29 caliber cartridges and come out with the .294 WSM

Around here a 6.5 might be sellable but the manufacturers are not marketing to the AR forum... I would guess that most of us willing to put the effort into searching the internet to find a forum about reloading would bias the results towards a group of individuals who are more "into" hunting and shooting then the general public. Most of us understand sectional density and ballistic coefficients a little more than the average opening weekend deer hunter. I would also guess that more than 50% of the licensed huntes across this country could not tell you what the difference is between a .308 and .30-06 or a .270 and a .280..... thats not a bad thing or a diss on those who are not into it as much as some of us are, its just the way the marketers think at the big gun makers: they are "marketing" to a mass audience. Honestly I am surprised that they offer as many chamberings as they do.

IV

IdahoVandal:

quote:

I am surprised that they offer as many chamberings as they do.

I'm not, particularly; it's a way to sell more rifles to the folks who don't reload.

I am alarmed, however, at the trend to higher power in the magazines that some of the weekend hunters read. Convincing a weekend hunter he "needs" a magnum for whitetail is as good a method as I can imagine to reduce hunting participation - fire it one time and stand it in the corner, never to be fired again. Gun makers are borrowing sales from the future to make a profit this quarter.

Jaywalker

yes...agreed....but here's another big drawback. Go to the ammo store and see how many different kinds of ammo he must stock for us today. In 30 caliber alone there's at least a dozen different cartridges.....add to that the number of bullet weights....If you want your store to be properly stocked you need at least twenty different 30 cals on hand.

All this proliferation reduces productivity and is counterproductive to the cost of selling products....or in other words...the price goes up and it's not due to COLA it's purely loss of productivity in all areas of the shooting scene.

If you sell a gun in your store and the gun is chambered for 7mm WSM is it necessary for you to then carry that ammo in stock?

The latest flurry of WSMs and WSSMs and SAUMs and PISSMs and what ta heck other stuff has added absolutely nothing to the shooting ability and simply increased the cost of doing so.

It made sence when Hornady bought out the 20 caliber. There was a large gap between the 17 and 22 cals. As far as the rest of the new offerings, I'm truly surprised we don't have a .29-06 or a 29-08 offering out there. Maybe we'll get the .29 WSM available soon.

quote:

Strangely enough the stuff they bought us recently is exactly what we don't want.

Do these guys get it?.....I'm very confused......Have any of you been asked what you'd like?

Marketing people are not particularly interested in what those of us "in the know" want - what they want is to be able to sell "new" stuff to those who are ignorant. This is the way they make the most money-by hyping the capabilities of their recent "brainstorms" to people who don't NEED those capabilities, but are easy to convince that they DO.....

It even works on some of the "experts" who write the gun rags. Oops - I almost forgot. These guys are part of the marketing effort!

Well if they were to ask me, I'd tell them that the 6.5mmSAUM would be the perfect round for Remmy to get back in the short mag game. It would probably be as popular as the 270WSM.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:
Gun makers are borrowing sales from the future to make a profit this quarter.

Jaywalker

They aren't the only ones. Seems it has become standard practice in America to focus almost solely on the current quarter rather than future health & viability.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
There was a point to my "king for a day" topic.....

In reading all the replies (and on another forum as well) it's amazing how many folks have asked for a 6.5MM offering.....many in 6.5-06 or in 6.5-284....a few in 6.5WSM.

Also it's amazing the number of folks wanting to obsolete the RSAUMs and WSMs and WSSMs.

Given this reply by you folks.....who was asked by the big gun makers what you wanted?...Where is their marketing folks?????...Why don't they ask us what we want?????

I just did and it seems that in many cases a good 6.5 offering is sellable.

Strangely enough the stuff they bought us recently is exactly what we don't want.

Do these guys get it?.....I'm very confused......Have any of you been asked what you'd like?

Actually for not being wanted the WSM’s and WSSM’s are selling very well. Maybe you don’t see a need or want any of these newer cartridges but others don’t feel the same way. Seeing that the new short and super short magnums are performing as Winchester said they would is undoubtedly helping with sales. They’re here to stay. Lawdog

quote:

They aren't the only ones. Seems it has become standard practice in America to focus almost solely on the current quarter rather than future health & viability.

Too many businesses have to focus on the current quarter to make sure there is a next one!
As for the marketing, the problem with firearms is that most of the market is already well outfitted with what they have. The manufacturers have to produce something different and then have their marketing department bamboozle the ignorant into believing the new product is what they need. There is nothing wrong with the new short mag cartridges, I really like my Model 70 Super Shadow in .270WSM. But would I have purchased it if I already owned a .270 Winchester? Maybe, since I like short actions and am intrigued by new cartridges. But if all I wanted was a rifle capable of executing Bambi's grandfather at 300 yards, and my .270 Win was accurate enough, I wouldn't even consider replacing it with a .270WSM. But since I was buying a rifle for the purpose of hunting deer sized game with a possible elk hunt eventually, I went for the short action .270. As far as I am concerned, I would rather it be called the .270 SFA (short, fat and accurate)
As to manufacturers asking what customers want, I believe that Nosler bullets actually does that and even has a web site where they ask for suggestions. So far my repeated posts begging for a 120 to 130 gr Accubond for the 6.5's out there have gone unheeded, but I will keep trying. I am perfectly content with their 140 gr Accubond for my .270WSM. Consider it my "do all bullet".

Don't ever forget that Remmy, Wnchester etc are all businesses. Their first goal is to make money, not to make us happy.

To blame the factories for not making rifles in such calibers as the .358, 6.5s etc. is ridiculas but its certainly your perogative....both of those calibers have a real poor track record in the USA, Americans never have and never will accept the 8MM, 35 cal, or 6.5 caliber it seems...not even the great 35 Whelen has set any sale records and is once again moribound....

Sometimes the facts of life are hard to take!