Hunting in brush or thick cover requires the ability to place one good shot in the boiler room of the deer. So what ever caliber you choose make sure you can shoulder if fast. Personally I would recommend a Model 7 remington in 308, 7mm-08,or 260. The new Ruger Carbines make a great choice too. The lever guns are fine and 35 rem is a great choice. But since your going to hunt PA lets go traditional. Rem.pump or semi Carbine in 30-06.

Every time the words "brush gun" come up I sit up straight and think of deer hunting in Minnesota. I grew up in the southern half of the state where slugs are required so I am very comfortable using them (I don't know any better). We use pump shotguns with the exceptions of the only woman in the group, she uses an NEF 20 gauge single shot. She can fire and reload almost as fast as we pump.

We started with the old smooth bore shotguns shooting foster slugs and their usual inaccuracy (my Dad shoots better than any of us with a smooth bore Mossberg 500 and the cheapest slugs he can find so the foster slug inaccuracy statement isn't always correct.) The trick we learned was to "shoot early and often"- pick out our deer and bang away until they fall down. There is nothing on earth more exhilerating than trying to down six deer running towards you with a pump shotgun. I haven't tried downing six cape buffalo running towards me so I will stipulate my exhilleration factor may be limited but I do know a challenge.

One year the sun was going down on our season, only minutes left with three tags to fill when we began driving the last woods. Dad was put in the far end of the woods while four of us drove. A few minutes later he began banging away like a belt-fed Browning 50. When we finally finished the drive we started counting and found our tags filled plus three extra! Dad said he didn't have time to look behind him so he kept shooting. We had to call around the nieghborhood to find people with unfilled tags. (One doesn't want the game warden to stop by for a chat when this sort of thing occurs.)

If you are hunting in heavy growth and farmland are you doing any drives? If so maybe you should consider a pump shotgun or rifle. Deer on a drive usually exit the woods very fast and are often very close so the need to shoot a long ways can be eliminated (we keep our shots within 100 yards). The pumping action helps to bring the gun back into alignment very fast for the next shot. Another thing that must be considered is in the excitement a drive can produce a rifle bullet's path can be forgotten- they go a long ways. We also have a rule that the drivers or posters don't shoot forward or to the side if there is someone is within range.

You'll do fine to pick up a Remington Pump gun, either thr 760 or the newer 7600. They handle very quickly, are available in many great hunting calibers, and have a detachable magazine. You also may look into ghost ring sights as they would be perfect for a short range brush gun and tritium would certainly make it easier to see in the deep woods. I've used a Remington 760 in .30-06 for years have a killed pile of deer with it. It is very easily my favorite firearm!

I have a Remington BDL-DMSS 25-06 that I originally got to use on both deer and ground hogs. I now have two dedicated varmint rifles so I don't use the 25 much anymore for that. I also have a .308 (24" barrel) that I use in my tree stand for deer. I am thinking of trading the 25-06 for a brush gun that would be suitable for PA woods where 100 yds is a very long shot. This would be a carry gun for stalking through the underbrush with the hope of kicking a whitetail up. I am thinking something along the lines of a CZ 550 FS in .308 or a Marlin 336SS in 30-30 - both of these have 20" barrels. What do you guys think???

Either one will do, i would favor the 308. If you go the 336 route maybe the 35 rem. if can find one.

My favorite Brush gun for hunting here in PA is my Remington 7600 in 35 Whelen. It is outstanding on both bears and whitetails. Those 250 grain roundnose bullets absolutely FLOOR them.

I also have & use a couple of Savage 99s in 300 savage, And marlin 336s in 30-30 and 35 remington. All work well and are reasonably priced.

hogsaw65
The 308 is one of my favorite calibers. I have used a 9,3x74R enough to know that these medium bores [which includes the 35 Whelen] are some of the best rifles on the planet. However for inside of 100 yards [if you are not going to use a double rifle ] a Marlin in 45/70 is very hard to beat. All of my 45/70 hunting has been with a Ruger No1, but my brother has a Marlin Guide gun that would be just the ticket for what you have described. I have had excellent results with the Hornady 350 RN over a healthy dose of IMR 3031. A scope in QD mounts would add a lot of versitility to the rig. Makes a great black bear rifle too.

My personal favorite for the Pa woods for the last 35 years is the 760 rem (7600 now) in 308. It's the only Remington I still own and still use it there. It's taken deer from 15 to 200yds and is ideally suited for any eastern hunting.I use 150 grain hornadys (handlaods)mostly or what ever is on sale at Chinatown(wallmart). Deer are quite easy to kill and don't require premium bullets.

If you want a brush gun, then up to 35 Caliber, is a better route in my book. If you are looking at a Marlin, I'd pick the 35 Rem over the 30/30. Just more of a good thing.

If you want more, then the 35 Whelan makes a great brush gun. It was available both in the 7600 and 7400.

If you want a Brush BULLDOZER, instead of a brush gun, look at the 444 Marlin or the 45/70. I have a 444, and that gun is not for Sale, period. Even for trade on a new one.
To me that would be like trading a dog that you have loved for 15 yrs, for a new dog.

That old girl just plain works, and sure has earned my loyalty.
A 44 slug or 45 cal slug just seem to make it thru brush pretty darn well, without going too much off course unless you hit something really big. I have had my 444's bullet just plow on thru and drop the deer anyway, after cutting a 5 inch sapling in half. The deer was my biggest ever, about 325 to 340 pounds on the hoof. Field cleaned at 265 lbs.

If you get into thicker stuff but need less range, then give me a good old 12 gauge with a rifle slug in it anyday!

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

I use a Marlin 45/70 in PA from time to time and it works great. What you have seems ok to me too though.

The best brush gun is a rifle you like that fits you and can be shot again by you in a rapid and accurate manner.

Having a big bullet that kicks hard has a cost. But use enough gun.

I don't like 12 ga slugs unless I have to use them.

I use a Ruger Mini 30 7.62 x 39 with a red dot sight. This is the gun I use when it is time to walk and salk in the thick brush in Northern MN. It is super light and easy to carry. The mini 30 is not the most accurate gun in the world, but it sure drops these MN whitetail at close range. My favorite load is, Sierra 135gr SSP with AA 1680.

Hogsaw,
Francis E. Sell in The Deer Hunter's Guide published his experiments on brush busting. After trying various combinations of big bore types, he got the best results with the 6.5x54 Mannlicher. To me this indicates that whatever rifle/caliber you find comfortable, if you want to snake a shot through the thick stuff, you need a high sectional density to keep the bullet on course. The 9.3x62 has this in 286 gr. The 7mm does the same thing at 175. If someone were to make a 156 gr. roundnose in .257, it would be a killer.

this might sound boring, but i would recommend a marlin m336 in 30/30 with a 2-7x scope of your choice.

I use a marlin 336A in .30-30 with a 24" barrel for my brush gun. That thing balances and swings like a dream. The .30-30 takes down deer just fine, especially under 100 yards. I even use Remington Core Lokt 170 grain soft points in it! Oh Horrors, the Green Box!

NH_Hunter

Lots of great cartridges recommended, all of them well suited to the woods. It's probably the only place where the big manufacturers can't easily advocate their latest wonder magnums. Your 308 would be a wonderful option. You can feed it cheap 180gr Sierras and be happy for life. It might actually get boring after a while, just too easy. Pull the trigger, stock the fridge.

If you just want a new gun, that's another story. Unless I didn't read closely enough, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 358Win. A big fat bullet at medium speed has done the trick for many decades. Or what about a 250 or 300 Savage? Combine any of these with a lever action and the other guys will probably laugh and call you a "traditionalist." But again: Pull the trigger, stock the fridge.

I'm more than a little surprised by the posts advocating certain cartridges to shoot through brush. I hope you don't buy something for that reason, as you'll likely be very disappointed when the bullet doesn't stay on course. No bullet or cartridge can guarantee that it will stay on course through brush.

A modified 8mm Mauser,original stock lightened with recoil pad and an 18" turned, cut and crowned original barrel having a 1.5 to 2 power scout scope on it. A 185 gr. bullet at 2500 ft./sec. and you are in business big time.If you want to put a recoil compensator on that thing that's OK too. roger

Just brought a mini- 30 for bush hunting here,once i bedded the action it shoots 3moa with Chinese ammo.
When the die's and brass arrive I hope to get 1.5-2 moa.
A 150 gn slug in the bush should be deadly.

Milosmate

I would suggest a Ruger 77 RSI in .308. Mine has an 18" barrel and is wonderful to carry and is pretty to boot. Not a "true" brush gun in the sense that you can load pointed bullets and reach out to 250 yards or so pretty easily if you have to. Of course, there's nothing wrong with the tried & true brush gun that I saw growing up in PA...a Rem 760/7600 in .30-06. What part of PA are you hunting?

Regards,

Lou

I generally use one of my bolt actions for deer in PA. If I am hunting in brush I use my old Winchester 30-30 with a Redfield peep. I am working on a NEW SETUP this year though!I bought a Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum and sent it to Coyote Cap to have an action job done on it. When I get it back I am mounting a Weaver 2 1/2 power scope on it. I think that this will be the ULTIMATE heavy brush gun for shooting under 100 yards.

Lou270, for deer I hunt upper Dauphin county PA - rolling farm country with lots of woods in between. The deer get fat all summer on soy beans and corn.

I realize that trying to shoot through brush on purpose is asking for trouble. However, how many times has a twig or small branch jumped out at you especially on the ground?? A 25-06 from the best I can tell will not take a twig at all. Since I reload I have thought about some Hornday 117 grain RN bullets would be worth a try. I have shot two deer wth Remingtion 120 gr. Core-lokts. Both deer died for sure but there was no blood for tracking.

Both my 25-06 and 308 have 24" barrels and are somewhat heavy. This is great for a tree stand but not so great when on the ground. On the ground I thought something with a shorter barrel and lighter in weight would be better than either the 24" 25-06 or the 308.

I have never had a lever action so don't know if I will like it. I am sure the bigger bores work better but the recoil from a 45-70, 444, 358 doesn't sound like fun shooting to me.

If I get another 308 I already have the dies and brass so that makes it cheaper than adding another caliber. Thanks for the input so far guys - keep it coming.

Hogsaw

First off, the brush gun is not a gun to be fired through brush. no kind of rifle exists that can do that, safley. To me a brush gun is one that is light and short, capable of a fast follow up shot, and is all around easy to carry while wondering through said terrain. this comes in the form of a marlin 444 outfitter with a leu 1-4.

I would stay with the 25-06. My idea of a brush gun is something super accurate and super fast that I can thread through a 2 inch hole in the brush. With any bullet or any caliber you are going to get some degree of deflection. Spend some of the new gun money and buy a bunch of ammo, and get really friendly with that gun. On the other hand a 870 with the new slugs that are coming out with a 3x9 scope would be really nice. Switch barrels and you can hunt grouse while scouting. My two favorites that I use now are a 25-06 and a 280.I have hunted Pa all my life, the thicker the better, luarel butting against a clear cut that runs a ridge or a bench. Damn deer season is still a long time away.

Damn it man! You got my favorite caliber in before I did!

Here in East Texas where most of the whitetail hunting is down in pine forests, oak thickets, and river bottoms, we bumpkins prefer the 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag and 300 Weatherby. Nothing like reaching out and tagging that deer standing behind a tree the next county over...

Seriously though, most of what I see deer taken with (and where I hunt, its pretty thick "brush wise") are 30 calibers like the .308 and 30-06. Followed by the .270 Win and surprisingly the .243 Win. Those are all accompanied by some magnums (you pick the caliber--I think those guys are just macho though) and a good smattering of lever guns chambered anywhere from 30-30 on up to 45-70. You'll even find an odd guy with an SKS occasionly...but those are rare.

I've hunted the thick river bottoms of the Sabine River my whole life and haven't seen any dead deer that could tell the difference between a 22-250 and a 45-70. Just shoot whatever you feel comfortable with and can shoot accurately.

Having said that, I guess since I claim to hunt in "brush," my deer rifle that is certified killer is a sporterized Yugo M48 in the original 8x57. The green box is fine, but with handloads, an 8x57 really shines. The doe I bagged this past season, I stopped dead with one Sierra Pro-hunter to the chest at 123 paces from the stand. In my opinion, the 8x57, while not very sexy, will do about all you can ask for in a rifle that I'll probably never shoot past 250 yards.

Its hard to argue with success...

To me when I hunt pa I usually use my 270 weatherby mag but I stand hunt all the time. But when I do get my brush gun it will be a marlin in 444 or 45-70 or 450 marlin and not in guide gun as they just dont do it for me.


Marlin lever actions seem the best to me


Brian

Hogsaw:

Down load the 444, or 45/70! Factory ammo is faster than you need basically because velocity sells.

I cut my 444s MV down by 400 fps and give up about 10 to 15 yds point blank range, basically because of the total lack of aerodynamics of the Flat Nose bullets. They become just big parachutes for decreasing velocity the faster you send them out the muzzle.

I loose little Point Blank range and reduce recoil 50% or more.
Details: 300 grain Hornady XTP, MV 1750 fps

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

Seafire STOP!!! Every cartridge you get a hold of, you download. Someday your bullets are not going to come out of your barrel.
Seafire.......
Yes I got the Ruger #1 in 30-30 back. I am working on a custom quarter rib, but Jerry, my partner helping is too busy with real work right now. I fitted the old quarter rib back on it. I might get to the range tomarrow, but need to wait for a shipment to come in first, one that contains my "TOM THREE PERSONS" Holster. I have one of those NECG ruger number one peep sights that justs fits on the ruger mounts... ill sight that in. Lon and I are going up early to a new Mt lion den we found on friday for 3 days. Not really intending to take him yet, as I have not seen him I just know its active. It takes me all year to kill one without dogs. I'll try to get a peak at'em, prints are moderate.

Small fry,



Thanks for the update on the 30/30 in the Ruger. Good luck on the Mtn Lion, /cougar.



And I had to laugh that I download everything. I don't know if you saw a post by I think it was 1894, a while back who asked who everyone thought loaded the hottest ammo.



He presented the post and nominated SEAFIRE!



Seafire just can't win, or seafire just spends way too much time reloading and testing the parameters of his rifles. Like I tested Blue Dot today in the 8 x 57. I also have tested the use of RL 7 for Velocity in the 8 x 57. I didn't post that one, because I got 3150 fps with a 170 grain bullet in a 8 x 57, with a 23 inch barrel! I could hear people calling me a fool for that one. Pressure was fine, but one more grain of RL 7 blew the primer or at least left extractor marks.



Cheers and Good shooting

seafire



PS, were you wanting me to work up a Blue Dot load in 30/30 for that Ruger Number 1?? ( LoL!)

If you are fairly certain that you don't want to take a shot over 100 yards, there is no reason not to use a 44 Mag in a carbine. Ruger has Bolt, lever and semi-auto carbines with 18.5 inch bbls and 5.5 pounds in weight. Ruger has best designs if you want to use a low power scope. Marlin and Winchester make levers. Any 240 gr SP will pass through a whitetail at 100 yards and still leave more energy in the animal than a 30-30. You can still "eat right up to the hole".

If PA has a handgun season, or if you are up for some very easy carry in those woods check out Taurus' new model 44 handgun with 12 inch bbl in 44 mag . Comes within 100 fps of the above listed carbines and IMHO is the most accurate out of the box hunting revolver made. At 56 ounces, recoil is not a factor. I just carry mine barrel down in a light backpack with the grips next to my right ear. You can sit or go prone and it is right there. You should be able to get one for $450.

Hogsaw

I am in the same situation as you. I am beginning to hunt the thickets alot more these days and it is nice to take a short rifle that points like a shotgun and has the anchoring power to drop em in their tracks. I used to use a win 95 in 30/40. Now I use a ruger rsi in 30-06. Upgrading from those; I'm having a short barreled 35 whelen being built for me to use with open sights. I based this choice on the fact that I'm hunting more stripped land that has been slash cut; so there is lots young forrests that I encounter. With that, I tend to get into alot of green briar and other thick stuff that produces tons of whitetail. The problem is however; you only get a second to react to them, hence no scope.

Recently I handled a cz 550fs in 9,3x62. I wish I handled it before I ordered the build up of the whelen. If you want a bolt gun, and you already looked at the 550fs in 308; you might want to consider this chambering. I think it would be the home run your after.

turfman

Turfman is spot on the money; Get your self a cz fs in 9.3x62 and load some woodleigh 286 gr bullets in it. My next choices would be a Marlin Guide Gun in 45/70.

"" The problem is however; you only get a second to react to them, hence no scope.""

Try a scout short barrel in 6.5x55 7mm or 8mm. Fast acting and the calibers are more than adequate for white tail. Also when you get older those open sights just aren't that easy to use. If you have an open mind you may have a really pleasant surprise.

Those larger bores for white tail are not a necessity, they're just a macho toy. If that's your bag I understand. I've been there but not for a long long time. roger

Roger,

I agree with your caliber choices of course,

however a downloaded 9.3 x 62 or so, seems like it might be a good rifle in that application. Just turning some of the older lever gun calibers equivalents into something in a bolt action.
2000 fps or so. You could load one to be equal to a 38/55 which isn't a bad place to be.

I am fond of the romance of a 30/40 Krag that I have, that is one of the 5,000 original factory carbine versions. I'd enjoy hunting deer in some of the terrain they speak of with it.

In that type of environment, 1800 to 2000 fps would be more than enough velocity.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Sounds like everyone has a good idea of what works for them. The main thing is use what you are comfortable with and can shoot good at the distances you think might come up. That said what I use when going into the thick woods is my Browning BLR81 in 308 Win. Even with it's 20 inch barrel it can reach out to 250 to 300 yds easily.

Steve E......

Like some have said when I think brush gun I think of short and fast handeling. I had a 30-30 for years. It was perfect. Then I got the Marlin in 45/70....OUCH!! No fun to shoot. I would rather shoot my .300 mag. all day than shoot that Marlin a couple times. Now my brush gun is an old Spanish FR-8 mauser in .308

In an era of antler restrictions, it would seem to me difficult to take quick shots at bucks in the thick stuff. I've not had to confront this yet because I've been taking my bucks in archery season but I tend to think it would make scopes a must--even on "brush" guns. In the past I've used an iron-sighted model 94 Winchester 30-30 and currently have a peep-sighted model 99 in 300 Savage. But several of my brush shots were taken when all I needed to do was establish that I was shooting at an antlered deer. Now you need to confirm four points on one side of the rack (three in some areas) so how fast of a shot can you take? Again, I haven't had to do it myself since antler restrictions became part of the equation. However, going on past experience I would say many of the guns already mentioned would work fine, including your choices. But a quality scope has now become close to necessity on brush guns in the Commonwealth.

But a quality scope has now become close to necessity on brush guns in the Commonwealth.


This is true except for doe hunting. I am a meat hunter so now with antler restrictions I don't even worry about a buck. If I get one great if not oh well. I still do prefer shooting longer distances with my .300 mag. setup than hunting the brush.

When the buck is big enough you do not need a scope. Hunt the thick stuff and you will find some amazing wall hangers..........on public land. Only marginal bucks are iffy ...and I let them walk anyway. There is still room for open sights or peep sights in PA even with AR.

The .30-30 is very popular with deer hunters in Northern NY, so I imagine it should be a good choice for the type of hunting you have mentioned.

I think a Model 100 in .308 is perfect.