I am new to this board and would like to ask some questions. I would like to list some calibers and members give me feedback on what game is best suited for them. I hunt whitetail, Coyotes, Prarie Dogs, and am looking into several hunts over the next couple of years. Boar, Elk, Mule Deer, Black Bear, Pronghorn, and possibly a couple others like goat and cat if I can afford it.

.22 wmr, .17 rem, .223, .220, .22-250, .243, and .25-06 are all my varmit guns.

I currently use a .308 to Whitetail hunt.

Can you all let me now what the following calibers are the best for. The reason I am asking is i have a hankering to get a couple new guns.

.25-06

.270

.308

7mm RM

.300 WM

And can I have the 7mm Rem Mag reamed to a 7mm RUM or 7mm STW? And if I did what benefit would it produce as far as game and performance?

Thanks in aadvance.

CnP

A good question, and an honest answer has the big caveat of, it depends.

Properly placing a quality bullet in the vitals is 100 times more important than caliber.

To me you need to start with what types of shots you will be taking on game. I.e., will you only take broadside heart/lung shots, or will you be taking heavily quartering shots? Do you want consistant bullet exits? These are crucial items to decide on, as what will consistantly exit an elk on a heavily quartering shot and taking out the offside shoulder will not be the same round that will go off like a grenade and not exit on a broadside whitetail.

Now once you've decided on what type of wound channels you are after, which is what the above paragraph describes, you can look at what bullets are capable of doing that, and at what velocity ranges.

Let's say you want consistant exits on broadside shots, which will likely give sufficient penetration for quartering shots and breaking the offside shoulder, though not necessarily exiting. That will limit your bullet selection to the tougher bullets such as the Barnes TSX, Swift a-frame or Northfork.

Those bullets were perform best when they are still doing some 2000 fps when they hit game, though they will continue to perform well down to 1800 fps. Knowing the lower velocity limit, you can look at what range you want to be able to take game, and look at what muzzle velocity is required to deliver the bullet at the range still going 2000 fps.

To me caliber is mostly superfolous from 25-30 with nominal 120-150 gr bullets. On game performance will be consistant given good bullets and proper shot placement.

The only advantage the magnums have is extending your range. Higher muzzle velocity doesn't make a little gun into a big gun.

What you didn't mention is how you hunt and what attributes you want in a rifle. Ie do you want a lightweight rifle that is a joy to carry in your arms for days on end? Or will you be hunting from a vehicle or stand?

Personally I like light rifles for hard hunting. That limits me to short actions. I'd say something between a 7-08 and 300 WSM in factory offerings is hard to beat. If I didn't care about wildcats, and wanted a flat shooting mild recoiling round, the 25-284 is very appealing.

You are best off doing a search of past posts on those animals. From you post if you want to do all with one gun, you will have to have one sized for the largest game, Elk. 270 is usually considered a minimum. Pronghorn (long distance) is 25-05,270, or 7mmRM as usual/common. Boar is commonly hunted with a larger caliber to get decent blood trail as fat plugs wounds well. If you currently use a 308 and you like it, I wouldn't change.

The 30-06 will take all north american game from varmints to the largest with a wider selection of bullets. check http://www.z-hat.com

If your major interest is hunting and not guns then you have what you need -the .308 by itself is really all that you need.

But if you want guns and need an EXCUSE to tell your wife (or feel a need to rationalize) then why not buy something classic? How about a 7x64 for the antilope? A 9.3x62 for the elk and bear?

The options are countless!

What's the short answer?

Saeed pretty much classifies it all by bullet diameter: Big Bore, Medium Bore, Small Bore.

Big Bore is over 45 cal I think.

Medium is about 7.62 mm or 30 cal. more or less. 7mm, 8mm, 338 cal. 270, 280. All "medium."

Small Bore is 22 cal varmint. But getting down to maybe .17 cal. and out to maybe .25 cal. This is not my field.

Then look at bullet weight AND velocity --

Small Bore runs 40gr. to maybe 70 gr. and 2500 fps to I'm not sure.

Medium Bore, like 30-06, runs 80 gr. to 200 gr. more or less, and 2,000 to 3,000 fps, more or less. Lots of variation in "Medium" because it's the "middle" center fire cal. in the USA.

Magnums in "Medium" get complicated. Fast, variable bullet diameter, variable bullet weight.

Medium bore will manage most game in the USA. 30-06 will do varmints on one end and bear/moose/elk on the other. A "stretch" on both ends, but it covers them.

Then Big Bore --

I get lost here. In the USA, 50 cal is the diameter limit. In the USA, 45/70 Govt. is "Big Bore."

In Africa for big game, "Dangerous Game" the 45/70 Govt. viewed as a "side arm."


0.458" caliber. Bullet weight running 300 gr. up, up to ounces. Caliber running up to an inch or more.

Velocities running circa 1200 fps up. Way up.

Big Bore guns in the USA are for Bear, Elk, Moose.

Technically, the medium bores begin at .33 and go up to and include the .375s.

Small bores are those under .33 and the big bores are those over .375.

Giustissimo Markino is absolutely right on that one

"In the USA, 50 cal is the diameter limit. "

This is not true.

Just my opinion

Small bores are up to but not including 270

Medium bores are 270 up to but not including 375

Large bores are 375 and over

That's the way I see and others may see it differently

[Quote]
300 WM
Substantial recoil but worth it. You can make it shoot as flat as a 270 and hit as hard as a 338. Easy to load for. Lots of bullet choices. Suitable for anything short of moose to the big bears. Even a great deer cartridge (you can eat right up to the hole). One caliber that does it all from 168 gr bullets for speed goats to 200 gr bullets for Elk.
[quote]

CnP,
Honestly,if you decide to get into a magnum case,I would skip .300 & 7stw, and consider going straight to 338win.
I dont doubt 300mag 168-200 ability, but 338-210tsx will smoke anything pretty much the same in the smaller class of animals,then you have the great options of 240NF,250tsx,275aframe,300gnWL logs should you need to drill somethin' real proper.If I was hunting in heavy country for larger game(elk upward)or anything that bites, I sure would like the option of those pills.

A guy also could rarely go wrong by 30/06 & 375H*H. You dont have to stoke H&H hard,lots of serious fun can be had with 235tsx@2750,250NF@2650,270tsx@2550,300NF@2350,350WL@2150.It may also be a change from the monotony of animals plainly falling over most of the time from the 06.

I think saeed is right on too ! except I would give the 25,06 more credit than he does, I would use it with complete confidence on any thing up 2 and including caribu !
Choose your load well though. for a big mule deer or a caribu use and tripple shock or a partition 115 to 120 grains...tj3006

Your magnum choices strike me as overkill. .270 and .25-06 are both well within specs, being kind of a high and low spectrum. Lots of guys use a 150 gr bullet for deer in a .308, and my fav bullet for my .270 is 150. Although I know 130 gr in .270 is tooted as best, I use 150 so I have a bit more oomph for a bear.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:

.308
Underpowered shooter for 308 bullets that have decent sectional density. 30-06 would be a lot better.


JMHO

I think Woods makes some very good points about the 270 and 7mm Rem Mag but I'll have to disagree with a couple points.

With todays premium bullets there isn't hardly spittin's difference between the 308 and 30-06. Maybe 100fps difference and a Swift or X bullet will penetrate through just about any animal you want to shoot with a 30 cal. If you had to hunt Elk tommorrow load up some 168gr TSX's and you'll have a gun that shoots flat enough and will easily penetrate to an Elk's Vitals.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:

.300 WM
Substantial recoil but worth it. You can make it shoot as flat as a 270 and hit as hard as a 338. Easy to load for. Lots of bullet choices. Suitable for anything short of moose to the big bears. Even a great deer cartridge (you can eat right up to the hole). One caliber that does it all from 168 gr bullets for speed goats to 200 gr bullets for Elk.

JMHO

I shot both deer and Elk with both 300 Mags and 338's. The 338 has a good bit more thump than a 300 Mag especially with heavy bullets. That being said a 300 Mag is a great all purpose round. I think you would be better off buying a 300 WSM than a 300 Win Mag though. The Win if handloaded is about 100-150 fps faster but the WSM is fast and flat enough. The WSM recoils less comes in some really nice easy to carry rifles and is generally handier. It's about the same difference the 308 is to the 30-06, close - but one is shorter and handier.
BTW if you do hunt deer with any 300 mag, be careful what bullets you use. If you use lightly constucted bullets they can destroy a large amount of meat. With a TSX or the like you are more likely to get the "eat to the bullet hole" performance.

If you were interested in a couple new rifles IMO you should try at least 1 of the WSM's. If you do it would surprise me not at all if you ended up with a couple.................................DJ

Hey dj

I consider 180 gr decent sectional density for a 308 caliber and the 30-06 carries 150 fps edge according to the Nosler #5. I agree that with a specific bullet like the 168 TSX or the 165 Accubond that the 308 win would be minimally acceptable for Elk.

He didn't ask about the 338. I have one myself and do agree that it is a helluva caliber. Working up loads now to see if mine will shoot the 210 gr Partition. It takes an experienced shooter to handle the recoil, IMO. Mine likes the 225 gr bullets but with the 250 gr bullets it seems like the most accurate bullets like the TSX or the Accubonds are so long that it is hard to get enough slow burning powder like H1000 or RL25 into the case and still seat the bullet. At least enough to get the full potential out of the 250 gr loads.

IMO, the 300 win mag also has the advantage of being able to shoot the heavier bullets like the 200 gr whereas the 300 WSM is not known for being able to do that well. Now the 7 WSM looks like it carries some real advantages over the 7 win mag.

CnP seemed to be looking for some basic knowledge about calibers and again (IMO) he couldn't go wrong with a single gun in 30-06 or a dual set of guns in 270 and 300 win mag (out of the ones he mentioned).

Woods, You did an excellent job of answering his question. And I think that you are right that a guy with a 30-06 has about all the rifle anyone "needs" to hunt in the America's. But I think most of us quit buying rifles we "needed" quite a while ago.
I'm thinking if someone can afford a couple more rifles it would be good to cover some areas further away from the middle ground held by the 30-06. Maybe a 270 WSM for long range shooting in a lighter rifle - his 25-06 is a varminter. And maybe a 325 or 338 on the upper end for something with a little more thump.
One last disagreement though, if you think 308's won't shoot 180gr bullets and heavier you might need to rethink. I've shot way too many 500 meter Rams in silhouette competition with 190 SMK's to discount the 308 and heavier bullets. 190's with 4064 work extremely well, I'd bet decent money 180gr hunting bullets would too...........................DJ

.308 with 180 grain bullets is devastating on black bear, especially with baits where you get to dictate range. The .308 is a good all-rounder, 150 grain bullets for lighter game works well.

If you want to add another rifle to your case, take a close look at what each of your choices offer over what you already have - .25-06 and .270 are good medium game rounds that'll shoot a wee bit flatter than your .308 but won't step outside of the range of game you can already take. In fact, the .308 still wins for elk and moose in timbers and black bear over baits, especially over the .25-06.

The 7mm and .300WM are a definate step up, more range and power and considerably more able to take big game at long range. You don't need a .338 to kill an elk at 350 yards, either of the above magnums will do just fine.

To really get a better picture of what would be the most suitable for you, terrain/rifle preferences, hunting styles, etc. I'll second the .30-06 for the game you've mentioned. Maybe switch up a handy .243 for the lighter stuff.