hello gents, I have a new rifle and am going on a goat hunt in a month. I have shot approx 60 rounds through my Savage 10 FCP-K LE .308 with a Leupold MK-4 LR/T scope and absolutely love it. The MK-4 is calibrated to shoot Federal Gold ammo with Sierra 168gr matchking bullets. It does shoot well, I'll give it that much. But my concern is, is this load OK for hunting goats? We will be in WY unit 29.

terrible pic of gun, but I couldnt wait for better light!


after a 50 shot break-in, I fired a 3-shot group. Right at 3/4"

Well I am not the most qualified to preach on this topic but what the hell its the internet so I too can be an expert!
My opinion based on a few facts and some conjecture is that Antelopes are not USUALLY tough to kill however I have seen them go for miles (no exaggeration) if not hit right.
The bullet you are asking about would I'm sure kill an antelope with ease however there have been some reports of erratic behaviour from Matchkings.
The problem being that they have a very small hollow point and a relatively thin overall jacket.
In some instances the hollow point fails to open and in others it opens violently, read as erratic performance.
You may be just fine with those bullets however it could turn into a mini nightmare just as easy.
Try another 165 or 168 grain Federal offering of ammo and see if you maintain a semblence of accuracy look to see if they offer the above weights in a Gameking bullet, in my opinion Sierra bullets are topnotch and all of their bullets are extremely accurate.
The next person that comes on here will likely tell you that antelope cannot be killed unless you are shooting them with a Nosler Partittion, Grand Slam, Accubomb Bitterroot Bearclaw Swift TSX or a Northfork (insert your favorite premium here)
But the fact remains that a cup and core bullet is outstandingly effective on game still to this day.
Good luck with your pursuit and good hunting.....

The bullet you want to use is a Match bullet, NOT a hunting bullet. They are made differently than a hunting bullet.
Respect your animal and use a Hunting bullet. All Sierras are accurate bullets.

"Respect your animal and use a Hunting bullet."

Plenty of guys who are tired of that unsubstantiated statement, generally offered by those who've never tried them or seen the so-called "target" bullets used...

I've shot and cleanly killed many animals with so-called target bullets and the suggestion that I don't respect my quarry because of that fact alone is utter rubbish.

I am currently working up loads with bonded bullets for my 300 WM, not because the Bergers I've used thusfar didn't work, but because in some hunting circumstances I'd prefer to have the option of better penetration for taking shots from somewhat poorer angles. Sometimes I'd like an exit as wound as well.

I've killed plenty of big tough animals with the Bergers and two of my hunting buddies have done the same with SMK's. All were African antelope so maybe I know nothing about pronghorn I suppose.

The reality is that shot placement is vital irrespective of the bullet you use. So I would concur with: "I have seen them go for miles (no exaggeration) if not hit right."


With the match bullets you need to show the restraint that you always should when hunting. Don't expect the penetration of a bonded bullet or a monolithic. Choose your angles and your shots and you should do just fine. It's my understanding that pronghorn occur in fairly open terrain and there I would have no hesitation to use a SMK and to wait for the right shot presentation.

Showing respect comes in having the maturity and restraint to avoid certain shots and marginal angles or Hail Mary shots which are beyond the level of your ability or that of your equipment. That applies whether you use the toughest bullet or any other.

Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Try another 165 or 168 grain Federal offering of ammo and see if you maintain a semblence of accuracy look to see if they offer the above weights in a Gameking bullet, in my opinion Sierra bullets are topnotch and all of their bullets are extremely accurate.

+1. If you can't find a similar load stick with the match ammo. In Africa I had bonded SP bullets fail to expand within their design parameters. I ended up taking my game as if I was shooting solids. Not hard to do if you make a mental adjustment. Do that with the match ammo if you have to as a last resort.

Use the 165 Sierra boatail spire point instead. VERY accurate bullet with very similar external ballistics to the 168 MK that will perform well on game, based on my actual experience.

I have shot a total of one Antelope so I am certainly no expert on them. I used the Barnes XLC bullet and while it worked it certainly wasn't necessary to use. Very little expansion and not a lot of damage done inside. It didn't go very far after being hit by the bullet. I have since switched to the Sierra Game Kings and pro hunters for deer sized game as they tend to work a little better for me.

I have used the sierra match kings in the .223 69gr out of my AR to hunt coyote. I have had mixed results with them. My scope's BDC is also set up for this bullet weight so that's why I use it. I shot one coyote where the SMK acted like a ballistic tip while two others acted like FMJ.

With all that said I would recommend trying something different than the SMK if you can. Berger makes their 168gr hunting VLD that should shoot very close to the SMK bullet.

FWIW,



GWB

quote:

The MK-4 is calibrated to shoot Federal Gold ammo with Sierra 168gr matchking bullets.

Your scope will never be able to tell the difference if you went to shooting the SST or the ballistic tip bullets.

Either of these in 165 grains will be superb on goats.

quote:

Use the 165 Sierra boatail spire point instead.

Thank you, Don.

For those that MAY have taken the time to read the front of the Sierra loading manual instead of simply flipping to the data for your favorite cartridge (I know, a real tempation) you'll read that even Sierra states they R&D' the .308" 165 gr. HPBT GameKing to placate the continual testimonials they receive from hunters who claim their .308" 168 gr. MatchKing bullet is adequate for game. They have expanded their SKU's to include a similar GameKing bullets in 6mm, .257", 7mm & .308".

Even Sierra states their MatchKing bullets are not constructed similarly to nor provide the terminal perfomance that GameKings do and recommend NOT using them; stating the thin jacket & the small Hollow Point are not condusive to optimal terminal perfomance when used on game.

But WTF-Over? The Sierra Guys ..... Whata they know ..... ?

I can vouch for the SGK 165gr HPBT on speed goats out of my 30-06. I will also say that while perhaps not optimal, the 150gr SMK works too with proper shot placement. I used those a few years ago out of the same rifle 'cause that's what I had. *I wouldn't do it again though!!

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:

quote:

Use the 165 Sierra boatail spire point instead.

Thank you, Don.
stating the thin jacket & the small Hollow Point are not condusive to optimal terminal perfomance when used on game.

But WTF-Over? The Sierra Guys ..... Whata they know ..... ?

Sounds like what I said in the first response..........................

I've read the manual and I do agree that it's worth pointing out what Sierra says.

There is also a note on virtually every page of data in that manual that says "Sierra does not recommend Match King bullets for hunting purposes", or something to that effect.

Not to take anything away from the information in the manual and the replies, the point is that the experiences of many hunters indicate that these bullets kill animals humanely and effectively.

Do I use or recommend target bullets exclusively for hunting? No. But there are circumstances where I do use them and others do too, to good effect. The poster asked a question. I answered it based on personal experience. If he had asked what Sierra say I would have told him that.

It's also interesting to section a GK and SMK of the same caliber and similar weight and look them over. On another point, Berger recommends their thinner jacket hunting VLD bullet over their thicker jacket VLD match bullet for hunting. Yes, that is typed the right way around.

Go here

and scroll down to the .308 information. The problem with the Matchking is inconsistent terminal performance. It may work, work great, or work not at all.

LWD

I just returned from New Mexico last night, having been there for an antelope hunt.

As usual, we had a great hunt and got some very good antelope considering the drought they are in.

I watched a good deal of the skinning and one fellow who had shot his antelope at over 500 yards with a .308 had three exit holes on his animal. The bullet, Sierra Matchkings. It killed the heck out the buck, but sure blew things up.

The MK's will be fine.

I was a police sniper and was issued the same rifle/load. Did a ton of shooting with it..lot's of experimenting with it as well...windshields, body armor, barriers, etc.

It will be fine on an animal as small as a Pronghorn.

Fairly hit, 168grains of just about anything will kill an antelope. BUT, when you go on to mulies and perhaps elk, you'll want a more dependable bullet. So why not start now?
I'm a born again believer in "one rifle, one load" and use it for everything.
For a hunting application, the difference between your SMK and a bullet designed for hunting will be insignificant or non-existant.

quote:

Sounds like what I said in the first response..........................

Snellie,

Yes, sorry I didn't credit your opinion, I obviously agree.

I believe, that as has been said, the 165 Match bullet will kill cleanly, if the shot is properly placed. However, the caveot here is shot placement, and unlike the target range, there are many more variables in the hunting field to consider. I know of an EXACT instance, where the aforementioned Federal ammo, was used on an elk hunt, the shot was not in the heart or brain, and the leakage caused by the bullet passing thru the elk was minamal, the elk ran, and it could not be found! Shooter error, both in ammo choice and shot placement, no doubt.

Jerry

The Sierra 168 Matchking is used by most LEO Snipers. It has performed pretty good in that role, except for a few instances where the bullet has done strange things. I know of one hostage that was killed becaues of this.

I have killed 2 pigs, a coyote and a turkey, as well as using it at work. As a result we changed to factory Winchester 168gr Ballistic Silvertips for our duty ammo.

Personally, I would never again hunt with Matchkings. Sierra themselves told me they DO NOT recommend it for hunting. I follow their advice, they make the bullet.

I have found that for all practical purposes, the Sierra 165gr Spitzer and the 165 HPBT Game King are every bit as accurate as the Matchking in most rifles. The 165 HPBT Gameking is a favorite of mine and I have killed a bunch of different animals with it, deer wild pigs, and several antelope at distances to 550 yards with it in a 308. I have never recovered one as it has always given complete penetration.

Hello Pintail_drake2004,

Wyoming state law requires a "soft or expanding bullet" for the taking of big or trophy game with a centerfire rifle as indicated in the hunting regulations...

http://gf.state.wy.us/admin/regulations/pdf/Ch32.pdf

Have a good hunt!

Best,

jpj3

Will it work? yea probably
Is there something that will work better? yea, definitely

Im sure you spent some hard earned money on your hunt. So why not spend a few extra bucks and time at the range and get some premium bullets. I know that I would not go on any hunt and use lesser bullets when I know I can get better stuff. I know that rifle and scope was not cheap.

Pintail, prairie goats are not hard to kill so long as you hit them right. Gutshoot one and you are in for a chase you will never forget.

I've always left the match bullets at home, and taken the game bullets for hunting. As Vapordog mentioned, I also have rifles that will shoot the Nosler Ballistic tips into the same holes as the Sierra Match kings. In several instances they shoot the BT's into smaller hole. NE 450's recommendation of 165-168gr BT's would be an excellent choice. A friend shoots the 165gr Sierra Gamekings, the hollow point variety, out of his 30.06 for antelope. The GK's kill them dead. We've never had issue them. Any of the bonded, partitioned, gold plated, premium bullets .308 bullets will kill an antelope, but what's the point. We're talking antelope, not Elk.

Thanks for the input gents. I contacted Sierra and asked about the bullet for hunting situations, given their answer and ya'll replies, I have thus decided to go with a Hornady 165 SST for this hunt.

I have several Mk 4 scopes and come ups with 165 TBBC and 165 Nosler BT are very similar to 168 MK Black Hills (about 2640 fps from my 20 inch 40X) out to 500 yards. Takes a very good shot from steady rest and very accurate rifle to tell the difference. You have to run the TBBC up to 2700 fps or more to match 168 MK, but you can easily get 2700 fps with BallC2 and 165 BT. Very accurate in my Tactical 40X and SR25. There are much better barrier blind bullets out there for LE work. Most LE use MK as a confidence builder. False confidence maybe? But even a FMJ a 762 will solve most human problems.

You have a nice rifle and scope, enjoy them both.

Andy

I shot one deer with a 30 cal SMK, I will never make that mistake again.

quote:

Originally posted by jpj3:
Hello Pintail_drake2004,

Wyoming state law requires a "soft or expanding bullet" for the taking of big or trophy game with a centerfire rifle as indicated in the hunting regulations...

http://gf.state.wy.us/admin/regulations/pdf/Ch32.pdf

Have a good hunt!

Best,

jpj3

This should be all that you need to know!

This whole topic was discuss for 140 plus pages years ago. A little research will give any body days of reading on it.

Same old same old.

I wouldn't use a Match King, but an A-max would probably work fine. But then so would an accubond...

I saw a guy use the SMK's I THINK in the same weight last year with a 300 Win Mag. Bang flop if there ever was one. Goats are not exactly tough. The bullet went in, and left with about a cantaloupe sized hole. For lung shots on a goats, a rapid expanding bullet like that is a good choice. BUT, to comply with some states laws, Sierra or Berger, don't remember with, make basically the identical bullet to their match bullets but call them "hunting" bullets. besides game laws, there are also some international treaties that do not allow "hunting" bullet for shooting people, another reason some companies offer both "hunting" and "target" bullets basically being identical.

Accubonds, partitions, a-frames, TSX....these are overkill for goats honestly

Brother in law borrowed my 700VS 223 for Pdog shooting, he had taken along a 700 Mtn rifle in 708 for bigger game, so I loaded up what I had on hand for such shooting, 52gr MK, he came back and told me he shot his Antelope with my 700VS, maybe he liked the 9oz Jewell trigger, or was it the 6-24 Burris Signature, at any rate, he took the antelope @376yds right thru the heart, dead on his feet 20 seconds later, never moved an inch. From what Ive seen the Sierra Gamekings shed their jackets just as well as the MKs, use the MK, they'll do a great job. Dont get me wrong, the gamekings are very accurate, too, hope the pic works.

Yup, first 3 shots measured an inch at 300yds from my Model 70 '06.

After testing many loads with the Horandy 165gr SST, I have finally found what my rifle likes. Today I loaded my hunting rounds to test at distances: 43gr Varget, winchester brass, CCI-LR 200 primers, and the 165gr SST produced a 5/16"-5 shot group at 100yds. Not too bad, but I am more interested in how they preform at 2,3,4 hundred yards.