I have read with interest the raging forum posts of several years ago debating the merits of Weatherby Sub MOAs ( and damning comments on Sako manufacturing).

I have a Weatherby catalogue on my desk at the moment. So far as the Sub MOAs are concerned, the catalogue states:
"Each SUB-MOA rifle is hand picked, test fired, and shipped with a factory-shot target and written guarentee ..."

This would , to me at least, clearly indicate that these rifles are not manufactured to be better than their peers.

They ,as has been stated in the past, cherry picked from manufactured rifles , not rifles specifically designed and manufactured at a higher cost for super sharp accuracy.

Or am I misrepresenting their manufacturing process?

Also, what is the feeling about the Sako ( and by implication) Tikka safety issues?

It is my understanding (and I may be all wrong) that the sub moa rifles are simply vanguard rifles which have shown (during test firing) to shoot a tighter than expected group. These "hand selected" rifles are then fitted with a floor plate which has "sub moa" inscribed upon it. As I understand it, they are just regular vanguards which shoot a little better (not discounting stock options) . One has to admit that Weatherby/Howa found something the public likes, because they sell a bunch of vanguards now.

Regarding Sako, I wouldn't be the least bit concerned about safety. The glitch they had regarding barrels has long been corrected. A Sako 75 S/S is one fine gun! Re: Tika, the only negative I hear relates to the plastic parts, but they too are tight shooting guns.

quote:

Regarding Sako, I wouldn't be the least bit concerned about safety. The glitch they had regarding barrels has long been corrected. A Sako 75 S/S is one fine gun!

The issue with Sako's were with regards to the finlites. They had a small run of barrel blanks that came in that weren't properly tempered. All of them have been recalled. The Sako is well machined and uses top notch materials.


The vanguard is a good rifle at a surprisingly affordable price. The sub MOA is a good marketing idea. The only problem is -- who would want to buy a super MOA rifle. I wonder what they do with all of the non sub MOA rifles?

John

IIRC it wasn't a "tempering mistake", it was hairline cracks due to using a different lube in forging.

I had a friend who worked at a Dick's Sporting Goods before Weatherby put out the Sub-MOA.
He went through the entire stock of Vanguards in .270 and found 3 out of 12 that had test targets with groups smaller than 1".
He bought the one that shot the smallest, about 3/4".

If I wanted a Vanguard I'd make buddies with someone at a store that sells them, then look through all the boxes for the best target.

As far as a Sako or Tikka, I'd take any model Sako or Tikka over and Vanguard any day of the week.
IMO the difference in quality is huge.
I have a T3 Lite and love the gun.
It's easily a sub-MOA gun.

I think if you read a little more on the MOA it is pillar bedded and has a few more things done to help its accuracy. I don't think the normal Vanguard is the same rifle, it may have the same action and barrel but is a upgrade and hand selected.

This may be correct given the full text of the Weatherby catalogue page on the
SUB-MOAs.

However, the rifle description is inconsistent in that , on the one hand it refers to what you have mentioned, then goes on to say the additional info I put in quotes in my past posting.

You would hope ? that Weatherby would not simply randomly choose, normal spec made rifles, and only sell those as SUB-MOA after the inhouse group shoot. Also, given their descritiption of the manufacturing process, it would be highly misleading, and I would have thought in contravention of consumer legislation in the US , and certainly Australia, were the rifles not manufactured separately.

Given that they are , even for the purposes of this thread, it would seem that most posters would prefer Sako and do not regard the additional premium charged for the SUB MOAs as being justified.

For my part, I simply do not like the look of them!! My centrefire purchase will be a Sako Hunter or De Lux ( if funds permit) or a Tikka T3.

i have bought 3 differant weatherbys and in every one the 3rd shot flys( dosent hold a tight group) id recomend a tikka any day