quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

65 grains of it, gives me 2750 to 2800 with a 225 grain bullet..

and 62.5 grains gives me 2650 fps with a 250 grain bullet....

Interesting. Loadtech calculates those loads to be 64,000+ in a 338Wmag.

Yes, well, Seafire has a long hsitory of red-lining, but he is still 100% here to tell us all about his exploits, so what can you say...

I am a bit more risk averse myself...

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I agree. I don't currently have a .338-06 but I used to. IMHO, I liked pushing a 250 gr bullet at around 2400 fps in the .338-06. That makes for a mild yet very effective medium bore. That duplicates the old .318 Westley Richards ballistics (.330" bullet) of a 250 gr bullet at 2400 fps. I thought of my .338-06 as a "poor man's" .318 W-R. And, the ol' .318 certainly has a proven track record on game.

Amen to that. It's sort of the 7x57 of the 338 bore - heavier-for caliber bullet at 2400 fps.

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If I was going to the trouble of a 338 Hawk I would go with the 340 Howell.

What trouble? Of renting a chambering reamer or of fire-forming cases?

Is the 340 Howell listed in any of Ken Water's books? I'd like to take a look.

quote:

What trouble? Of renting a chambering reamer or of fire-forming cases

Just talking about using something other than the 338-06. When you go AI you can at least shoot factory. With the 338-06 that doesn't add much. Not much if any factory ammo available.

So once you leave the AI and start moving the shoulder forward you are into full wildcat. Reamer rentals are pretty much the same. Dies for the Hawk and Howell are both available. Factory brass & ammo with headstamp is also available.

If I'm going to go full wildcat then why not go the max the case will allow. The Howell Case is 2.6" long, shoulder moved farther forward. I compared it's capacity to my wildcats capacity as well as the 338 Gibbs and they are basically the same. My buddy actually uses the 340 Howell brass in his 340PDK(my wildcat) chamber. We just extended the throat. Depending on your Magazine length you might not be able to take full advantage of the longer case. If your magazine will not allow you to take advantage of the longer case you can fireform 06 brass and still have plenty of neck to hold the bullet.

I can't say if the Howell is in Ken Water's book. You can get some info from the AHR site.
http://www.hunting-rifles.com/

Steve has drawing of the 340 Howell on his web page. http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm He doesn't have the 338 Hawk but just look at the 375 Hawk/scovill and think necked down. The shoulder starting point shoulder dia angle etc would all be the same for the 338&375 Hawk.

quote:

often overlooked, but H 380 is great powder for the 338/06....

65 grains of it, gives me 2750 to 2800 with a 225 grain bullet..

and 62.5 grains gives me 2650 fps with a 250 grain bullet....

And I am not using magnum primers which everyone says you need with H 380...

H 380 and W 748 are too great powders for the 338/06...and will give higher velocities than say 4320, H 414, H 4350 and IMR 4350....

Another versatile load is 50 grains of IMR 4064... It gives 2550 fps with a 200 grain bullet and 2500 fps with a 250 grain bullet...
So if you like to shoot different bullet weights and don't like to have to keep re zeroing the scope.. this load combo is excellent... as long as you can live with 2500 fps with the 200 grain bullets...

I find the 338/06 more accurate than the average 338 Mag also!

I also have found that compared to a friend who built a 338/06 AI, that I actually get more velocity out of the non AI than he gets out of his AI, both have 24 inch barrels.. Mine is a winchester action and his is a Ruger Mk 2....

cheers
seafire

Great info Seafire, while testing the one I had, I used some 414 but was not impressed with speed, slow and accuracy was not quite as good.

Should have tried H380, will next time if I get/build another.

Still waiting for a 338 Federal. It will do what I need here for deer. The 200 Hornady should be perfect and far cheaper than premiums.

From the for what it is worth category.

For bullets 21 and lighter I go R15

For the 225's on up I go with Elmers old IMR 4350

It works, I get excellent accuracy and the speed I need.

The only thing I'll try next is the H4350 that Brad uses in his 338/06. He was running a 250 at 2575 with that powder out of a 22" tube.

Mark D

Mark, don't be afraid to give 4350 a try w/ the 210grNP, it's a sub MOA load in my very finicky .338-06. I use H4350 now for the 210gr & the 250gr. I just can't get the speed that some of you guys do.

Fred I would need to look back at the log bok but I do believe that is where I started.

Seems to me I got better accuracy and speed with R15 with the light slugs.

I think that is what I recall

Mark D

Also in the FWIW category, I have a pard that is shooting 338-06 in a custom based on a pre 64 mod. 70. He's shooting 185 Barnes TSX in front of RL 15 with very satisfactory results.

I just bought a custom 338-06 but haven't been able to get to it yet.

Thanks for all the info. This will be helpful.

I use Varget with the 185 TSX in my 24" bbl for 3000 fps and great groups. Just today bought some H380 for the 210 TSX which is in the Barnes #3 at top velocity.

Took a new Win 70 Sporter five years ago and rebarreled with a 24" Lilja with fixed iron sights regulated for the 250 NP at 2450 fps. Also added a set of Talleys and either a 1.5-5X or a 2.5-8X Leupold.
Mine shoots 225 NP's to 2600+ which is my deer/elk load.
Took a good bull a few years ago in excess of 300 yds, one shot. Also took a few heads of plains game in RSA with the 250 NP's. Seems everything I shoot at drops over with little drama.

Maybe less IS more??

Great round. Especially with the heavier bullets. They penetrate straight and deep. Don't know why Winchester hasn't chambered the M70 Sporter in .338-06.

FN in MT

Heck I guess I must have a real slow 27inch 338-06 barrel.

I have used 4or5 differant powders and every time I get above or near 2500fps with 250s I show all kinds of high pressure signs.

But then a 250 at 2450 kills every thing I have shot with it.

PD shooter yep you're right you do have some kind of a slow tube, but hey it works so no biggie.

Mark D

My 338-06 reamer is on the way! M98 action, Timney trigger. And a nice piece of wood.
Some assembly required!

I'm very exited as yours truely, will chamber it and put all of the pieces together, my first project!
It'll be a 23" tube.
And the dies will be Redding.

I cant begin to tell you how pissed i get over the 338-06 AKA 338 A-square.
How in the world have companies legitimized rounds like the 35 whelen, 260 remington, 7mm-08, 338-08 and passed by the 338-06?
we have WSM's, WSSM'S, SA UM, ruger Compact mags, 375 ruger, 376 steyr, and a slew of other rounds thatthe industry has shoved down our throats.
in fact since the 338-06 was mentioned in relading/ wildcat circles how many dozens of other wildcats and creations have been legitimized by the industry?
338-06 is the NORTH AMERICAN one gun.
no doubt.
the ability to take all smaller whitetail deer up to and including the largest of the bears. it exells w/ a BBL as short as 23" and its brass can be formed from cheap and redily availible 30-06 brass w/ only a sizing die.
338-06 is the perfect round.
Bullets in the 338 caliber are available from 180 to 300-gr. weights. The ballistics and energy levels obtained with the 338-06 make it an ideal Elk and Moose caliber to ranges approaching 400 yards, which is as further than I feel is responsible for any Elk or Moose hunter to shoot. With the 250 gr. to 300 gr. bullets, the 338-06 produces around 3600 ft/lbs. of bear stomping power at the muzzle using bullets that are strongly constructed and capable of breaking bone to stop an angry charging bear at close range.
But as i am writing this i have 2 choices build or have one built or buy a Weatherby ultralightweight MKV.
Why is it so hard for Remington to slap a 338 caliber BBL on a 30-06 action? Kimber? Savage? CZ? whats the big deal?

by the way...
check this out...338 custom on GB

KSTEPHENS - I couldn't agree with more. You would think it would be nothing for any of these gun makers to slap on a .338 barrel to anyone of their models.

For pete's sake, Remington sells rifles chambered for .25-06, .270, .280, .30-06 and .35 Whelen..... all based on the .30-06 case. Why not throw in the .338-06?

Whatever...

Or how about this? Why not produce ammo for the .338-06? How much would that take for Remington or the others to accomplish?

BTW... that's a nice rig on GunBroker. But I think it's a little pricey for a used Remington. My suggestion would be this: if you have a .30-06 or .270 that you're not crazy about anymore, send it to ER Shaw (just google ER Shaw) for a new barrel. That's what I did with my old Savage 110 .30-06. Less than $300 delivered for a SS 24" 2.5 contour barrel.

Just thought of this, but maybe Remington doesn't want to chamber for a .338-06 because ballistically it's very similar to the 35 Whelen.

But that's no excuse for Winchester, Kimber, CZ, Ruger, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by mmaggi:
Just thought of this, but maybe Remington doesn't want to chamber for a .338-06 because ballistically it's very similar to the 35 Whelen.

But that's no excuse for Winchester, Kimber, CZ, Ruger, etc.

no more similar than 280 is to 270, in fact less.
no more similar than 260 is to 7-08, in fact less.

quote:

Originally posted by mmaggi:
KSTEPHENS - I couldn't agree with more. You would think it would be nothing for any of these gun makers to slap on a .338 barrel to anyone of their models.

For pete's sake, Remington sells rifles chambered for .25-06, .270, .280, .30-06 and .35 Whelen..... all based on the .30-06 case. Why not throw in the .338-06?

Whatever...

Or how about this? Why not produce ammo for the .338-06? How much would that take for Remington or the others to accomplish?

BTW... that's a nice rig on GunBroker. But I think it's a little pricey for a used Remington. My suggestion would be this: if you have a .30-06 or .270 that you're not crazy about anymore, send it to ER Shaw (just google ER Shaw) for a new barrel. That's what I did with my old Savage 110 .30-06. Less than $300 delivered for a SS 24" 2.5 contour barrel.

does it shoot? i dont know what kind of quality ER SHaw produces.

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Great round. Don't know why Winchester hasn't chambered the M70 Sporter in .338-06.

I would actually prefer the featherweight model.
I would definitely buy one.

I can't see why Winchester would want to compete with the 338 WM and Remington the 35 Whelen. But like stated above, it sure doesn't seem to stop them with other cartridges.

I used mine this year on a bull elk.My load was 200 gr. Accubond with IMR4064 for 2800 FPS very accurate. I got full penetration. I get 2700 with the 225 accubond and H4350.I'm ordering a Cooper model 52 this summer in 338-06 it's not listed on their website but I called and they do make them.

The 338-06 in std. or IMp. version is a good caliber, I used it for years, but finally went with the .338 Win and the 9.3x62 as considerably better calibers IMO....

KSTEPHENS - how does it shoot? First day at the range I shot consistent 1" groups @100 yards. I was impressed.

I purchased the ammo from Quality Cartridge (I don't reload - not yet anyway). I forgot the powder used (Hodgen 4350?) but the muzzle velocity was 2600+ ft/sec for 225g Nosler P. The gentleman at Quality Cartridge would not tell me the grains (legal purposes was the excuse he gave me).

Do a search on these boards for ER Shaw. I'm pretty sure you'll get nothing but a positive posts.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
The 338-06 in std. or IMp. version is a good caliber, I used it for years, but finally went with the .338 Win and the 9.3x62 as considerably better calibers IMO....

Atkinson - I respect your opinion but I would be interested in why you feel the 338 WM and 9.3x62 are better calibers than the .338-06 for the lower 48.

In the end, I believe they're all good.

Heck,
I started this post a long time ago and changed my mind and ordered a .35 caliber Lilja barrel. I decided the 35 Whelen was a better choice for me than the .338/06

one thing i DO like about a 35 is that you can load 35 remington or 357 pistol bullets for whitetails or heavy duty partition style 35's for the tuff stuff. w/ the 338 your bullets are (for the most part) built for a 338 win mag.

You SOBs are all going to end up on my ignore list. I have an action and a stock that has been sitting around for several years and I have been procrastinating building a 338-06. Back in the early 90's I put together a bound book of quite a few magazine articles about the round. I take it out and look at it from time to time. Articles by Finn Aagaard, Steve Timm, Ken Waters, etc. All kinds of loading data for all kinds of powders. Shucks I even have a stash of 06 brass. If you don't quit with these posts, I am going to have to build it. Only thing is, I have a super accurate 338 Win. Mag. that does everything I need it to do, and we have a lot of history together!

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Heck,
I started this post a long time ago and changed my mind and ordered a .35 caliber Lilja barrel. I decided the 35 Whelen was a better choice for me than the .338/06

My 9.3x64 is my bigger medium, I'm building the 338-06 for my "30 cal". My 300 WSM is going to be used for another project.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
one thing i DO like about a 35 is that you can load 35 remington or 357 pistol bullets for whitetails or heavy duty partition style 35's for the tuff stuff. w/ the 338 your bullets are (for the most part) built for a 338 win mag.

I've always qiestioned the wisdom of this. I've also wondered if this is just one of those things gunwriters say and everyone else does too.

At the velocities you can get with the whelen, lightly constructed bullets like those made for pistols tend to expand much too easliy and damage way too much meat for my tastes. Accuracy isn't that good either unless you reduce the load. Those bullets made for the .35 rem are better but you are still best served by reducing velocity.

I like the heavier bullets like Hornady's 225 in my .338-06. They do a swell job on deer as well as elk in a pinch.

I really like the .338's and when I want or need bigger I go to my .9.3's.

you dont have to load up 358's to max FPS and they would be alot cheaper. i would guess that a 158 JSP at 1800 would be quite a mild load and a sre deer killer in the thick stuff.

Well I guess I'll be finding out what all the fuss is about pretty soon. Just got the call yesterday that my 338-06 is finished and will be shipped Monday. M700 ADL action, trued, and fitted with a 22" #3 Douglas SS barrel. It's going back into the original factory stock while I work up loads and figure out which stock to put it in. I've got Leupy Dual Dovetail bases and rings, and a new VXII 2x7 to top it off. Bullets on hand to try are 210 Partitions, 225 Speer Boattails, 225 Hornady Interlocks, and 225 Accubonds. Suitable powders on the bench are RL-15, Ramshot Big Game, Varget, H4350, and Ramshot Hunter. Cases are new necked up WW 30-06 and will be lit with WW primers. Hope the weather cooperates this next weekend. Nothing cures spring fever like working up loads for a new rifle!!

Grafs is selling .338 Sierra 225 grain bullets for $19.99/100. These are great bullets for whitetails, hogs and the targets. They might be considered "soft" for a 338 Win Mag, but they are just the ticket for a 338/06.

http://www.grafs.com/product/200044

My opinion is that if you can't pay $0.20 each for bullets, you probably can't afford to build a mostly wildcat rifle and take it hunting.