WN,

If you are into lightweight rifles like me, a rifle that will equal the belted (and
maybe the non-belted) mags is very attractive. The caveat?--a 22 inch barrel.
(sigh) I'm not trying to start a war here. The mags are not all that efficient, and
they NEED long barrels. I have chronographed two 300 WinMags and one 300 Wthby
with 22 inch barrels. None of them could break 2850 with 180gr bullets. I have
listened/read the same from others.

Albeit, you gotta be into reloading to go through the whole fireforming thing. Case
life is a little shorter, but I my cases don't last much longer that 7-10 firings in any
of my full-house hunting loads.
Casey

What are the advantages of the 30-06AI vs a standard 30-06. I am considerinh having my 30-06 converted to the Ackley version. Does any one out there shoot one. Who makes dies for the Ackley version. I cannot find a lot of load data for it. I seems that it only increases by about 150fps.

If you already have a 06 then 100-150fps probably isn't worth it, unless you just want it. If you were putting together a new rifle, then why not take the vel. advantage? It will get you very close to a .300winmag. Nosler's current manual has loading info on the AI.

I have one, albiet not long enough yet to really wring it out. I think what fredj338 says is right on. It doesn't set the world on fire, but does offer modest ballistic gains and the case life should be slightly better.

I wanted a little more power than an '06, no belted or fat cases, factory ammo availability, but I also like playing with wildcats. I ran into a used good quality custom rifle and, being an Ackley fan, bought it. It came with a set of RCBS full-length dies and a little ammo.

The .30-06AI ammo that came with it shot into 1/2" groups at 100 yards, but that is more a function of rifle than of chambering. Fireforming loads with Nosler 150BT's and IMR4350 are shooting about the same. I would like to find a 165 PAR load for it eventually.

For load data, I got my info from the Nosler book, as suggested by fred above, and I used moderate loads listed for the regular '06 to fireform brass, with intentions of moving up from there.

At the same pressures, you can only expect about 50 or maybe 75 fps improvement in velocities from the '06 AI. Most of the velocity gain that people report from Improved chamberings is a result of the owner's willingess to load to much higher pressures in order to achieve the preconceived gains he expected, and thus justify the conversion.

That said, the sharper shoulder and lesser body taper of the AI makes for a tad easier reloading and perhaps longer case life (if you don't blow the primer pockets on it trying to find that elusive extra 150 fps). But if I had a regular '06 I was happy with (and I do) I would be loathe to mess with it for the perceived difference.

It takes a case with some bit of body taper (like the 57mm Mauser case) to make the Ackley treatment pay off. Even then, if you stick with the Improved version (same headspace) and don't move the shoulder forward (a la Gibbs), your gains are still minimal.

I got a .280 AI some years back. Nice rifle, have used it a lot. Today, I'd probably just get the .280 Rem and be done with it. I'd rather not have to hassle with the fireforming.

One advantage of the improved chamber: cases hardly stretch. Using a Sinclair Chamber Length Gage, though, it is likely you'll never have to trim a standard case either - at least trim less often.

One disadvantage of the improved chamber: I found my brass hardened when fireformed, so I ended up having to anneal. Don't know if this is a common experience?

Me? I'd keep the .30-06.

- mike

WN,

Although I am a .270 fan, I really like my two .06 AI's also. One is a
is a M700 with a rechambered factory barrel, the other is a Shilen on
a M700 action. Both have 22 inch barrels. On paper, the .06 AI
doesn't seem like much of an improvement. With 150gr and 165gr
bullets, it dosn't show much improvement in real life either (with either
rifle).

But with 180gr--and especially 200gr bullets--both of these rifle lived
up to my expectations (which is kind've rare). I keep a running track
on chronographed velocities in my notes. My Shilen barreled rifle
is currently averaging 2752fps with 163 rounds chronographed with the
200gr Nosler Partion. The Remington barreled rifle is averaging 2794fps
with 142 rounds and 200gr Partition. That is 300WinMag territory and
with a 22 inch barrel no less.

I mic my new cases and them mic them after the fireforming shot
(with fireforming there is a little bit of guesswork here) in order
to establish a baseline for max pressure, and then mic each time
as I work up a load. As best I can determine, I am staying within
pressure limit (reasonable case expansion above the web, primers
look good, no brass flowing). Case life is reasonable, I had several
seperate at the expansion ring just above web after 7-8 firings,
so I pitch 'em after 5-6 firings.

Casey

I do not own one of them-however a couple of good buds do. 150 fps seems to be the arena the work in in terms of extra speed. Now some would say that isn't much to get excited about and most days I would agree-however the way I look at it Winchester has done a big time good job of convincing a lot of people that 150 fps is worthy. I am of course referring to the whole WSM deal.

Just my thoughts but you can see that I think that the AI is just as good of an idea as the WSM is.

That may sound weird to many but not to me.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Casey, I think that before I get mine redone then to something else I might try going to some 180's in it. I had my taken to AI and have not been impressed. of course I never shot it as a standard 06 so don't have a comparison for it. I have a 308 norma though that I plan on using with 180's though, not much sense having two that do the same bullet weight when i really need a 25cal. :-)

Seriously, to the original poster, the 06 improvement is something I would do if you shoot the gun a while, aren't happy with what it does, and want to try something new, before getting into expensive rebarreling or a chambering that requires extensive bolt face and rail modifications. As stated above, x57 based cartridges benefit the most. if you said you had a 7x57 or a 257 roberts and were considering it I would tell you to go for it in an instance. the 257AI is one that I really really want, unless my gunsmith is willing to break out the 25 winters dies and do me one of them babies. (something cool about having a very efficient, good performing wildcat that not many have).

Red

WN,
I had a double heat-treated Springfield 03 rechambered to a .30 Gibbs about 20 years ago. The Gibbs increases case capacity slightly more than the Ackley-Improved version.
I don't think it'd worth it for 150-200 FPS.
If you modify the feed lips so the magazine will hold and feed the normal amount of cartridges,you can never take the gun back to a regular '06.
When you decide to sell it,the buyer has to be a handloader who knows how to fireform cartridges and develope loads.
I'd suggest it will be cheaper to sell your current gun and buy a 300 WSM or 300 SAUM and then load it down slightly if you don't need all the velocity increase.

15 and 16 is where it stands at the top 25 AI conversions. They give it seperate places because the two loads are so far apart. Look at the 257rob AI thread over in Wildcats.

15. .30-06Sprfld 180gr. 2700fps(st) 2900fps(AI) 7.4% inc.
16. .30-06Sprfld 150gr. 2910fps(st) 3100fps(AI) 6.5% inc.

Casey a couple of thoughts to ponder--if you want.

First off my last 300 Wby in a 23" Krieger tube on my M700 would run over 3000 with 200 Nosler or Sierra's without a lot of sweat.

Secondly a while back for giggles with a 257 Wby Schneider on my M700 I did some work with it at 26" then for giggles I cut it down to 23". The total loss was below 100 fps--seems to me it was just a bit over 90 (I'd have to check my records for sure). My point is that 30 fps per inch is no biggie-personally I feel that there is way too much made over this tube length thing.

I've been thru 3 and am on my 4th 340 Wby Schneider tubes now-they've ranged between 23"-26"-not more than 100 fps difference between them all.

I am personally convinced that there is less to this whole longer tube thing than it is made up to be. Have any of you ever checked the charts to see what an extra 100 fps actually does for you at say 400 yards? It is not very darn much-for the most part I'd believe to be right around 1.5" more or less drop depending on how you looked at it. Check it out for yourself start both speeds sighted right on at 100 and see what you see.

That to me is not worth bothering about-any more I tube a rifle to feel and not to a certain length.

Just my thoughts brothers and sisters...

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz