I am considering have a pair of short, light rifles built on matching .308 length actions - 2.8" COL and standard bolt face. What two cartridges would you choose for such a project?

Question:
For the smaller rifle?

Choices:
.22-250
.243
.250 Savage
.257 Roberts
.260 Remington
7mm-08
.284 Win

Question:
For the larger rifle?

Choices:
.308 Win
.338 Federal
.358 Win
.450 Marlin Mag (action work req'd)

 

I voted 7-08 and .308

Tell me why any are better than these two...by the numbers.

257 Roberts because it's nostalgic and gets the job done on the smaller big game and works nicely for varmints too.

The 338 Federal because it is big enough for anything in NA and there is such a wide ranging choice of bullets, both inexpensive for practice up to expensive for when there is a substantial amount of money riding on bullet performance.

There's my reason's and I'm sticking to them.

What purpose are these rifles to serve? Are they just for show or are they working rifles? Are they backups for each other or are they to cover a wide range of game/varmint animals?

For general hunting with a short action rifle, a 308 will [and does] everything I need a short actioned rifle to do.

For a second rifle I would just get a 20" barrrel 375 H&H built.

You can reload a 375 H&H from the power level of a 35 Remington up to full power H&H.

I use a pair of Tracker barrels [19 3/4"] that fit my Blaser R 93 in those two calibres.

Easy:
257 Roberts
and
358 Winchester

Rich

Looking for shorter and lighter than I would want to shoot a .375H&H from. I'm thinking 18" barrels and about 6 lbs for the smaller and, maybe, 6.5 lbs for the larger. They will both be small enough to carry easily slung across my back when I need both hands free for ascending or descending.

Working rifles. The smaller one will be kept near the door of the house for targets of opportunity like the occasional rabbit, coyote, bobcat (with tag) that wander through the property but they will both get used. The bigger one should be adequate for black bear and I think the options I included above will all do that.

I picked 22-250 and the .308 Win... If you could go long action, there are better choises, depending on if bigger game than blk. bear and deer are to be hunted.

DM

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Easy:
257 Roberts
and
358 Winchester

Rich

Rich,

I don't like the 257 because of bullet selection, and very long bullets in the heavier class......

But the 358 is a terrible round.

The 7-08 and .308 are the best overall in this survey. Like I said above....by the numbers.

Ted I have to disagree with you for once. I picked the .257 Rob because I have one and am very impressed with it, 100 to 117-120 grain bullets for everything Antelope sized and bigger and 90 grains down to 75 grains for the Antelope on down to Prairie dogs. Mine is extremely accurate and I can't say enough about the killing power of the little Bob. Then as a second I picked a .358 cuz I don't have one and would like to play with one however the better choice would be a .308 for sure.
Good shootin everybody.

If you picked the .284 a second rifle would not be necessary.

257 and 338 (I do REALLY like the 308 though) no "numbers", just the way I would do it.

Damn,
Can I vote None of the Above or is this like politics were you vote for the one you hate less?

I have my two: 6.5x55 and 9.3x62
They will get a bigger friend someday.

John

260 and the 358

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Ted I have to disagree with you for once. I picked the .257 Rob because I have one and am very impressed with it, 100 to 117-120 grain bullets for everything Antelope sized and bigger and 90 grains down to 75 grains for the Antelope on down to Prairie dogs. Mine is extremely accurate and I can't say enough about the killing power of the little Bob. Then as a second I picked a .358 cuz I don't have one and would like to play with one however the better choice would be a .308 for sure.
Good shootin everybody.

If you picked the .284 a second rifle would not be necessary.

The .257 Rob is a neat round, and so is the .358 Win. But this is why I don't or won't own one of these otherwise fine rounds in a rifle.

First of all the .260 Rem. outshines the Rob head to head so between the two I would have to go with the .260

But with a 120 grn bullet the 7-08 beats them both. And I don't know why the .284 Win doest do better (book numbers) than the 7-08

257 Rob with a 120 grn NBT

MV 2800
ME 2090

.260 Rem and a 120 grn NBT

MV 3049
ME 2445

The 7-08 with a 120 grn NBT

MV 3180
ME 2729

The .358 Win is harder to compare with the .308 as it does not have a large selection of bullets for me to load.....this alone would be a deal breaker for me.

In the short action category the .308 is hard to beat going up or down. It shines with 150's and has tons of bullets to choose from as does the two .284's in this category.

Snell, I don't sweat it...blonds, brunets, redheads.....all just girls.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ted thorn:
I voted 7-08 and .308 /QUOTE]

And, by the numbers, the real difference between these two IS.......???

With your job descriptions I voted for .243 and .308. The .243 should handle varmints and furbearers with proper bullet selection. And .308 just works for everything.

For my use I'd probably pick the .308 and a .338.

Only problem I have with the .358 is that in the same action length you can go .350 Rem Mag and get a bit more ooomph in the same package. Still, a .257 & a .358 leaves a big hole in the caliber contest...you'd buy a .308 anyway in the end just "because".

I chose .257 & .308. And cap both rifles off with a .374 H&H and you've got the world covered.

260 and 450
only because the 411/284 or 416/284 was not a choice

This is not fair!

1. 22-250 for the small one..
Here's where I cheat.
2. .260 or 708
3. .358 for cast..

I'm not sure you can get a 257Bob to run well in a true 2.8" length action. I chose 260 & 338Fed. The 360 is a better big game round & handles vermin well w/ the 85gr Sierra. With a 120gr bullet, it's comperable to the 7-08 w/ 140gr bullet & w/ a 130gr NAB, it is pretty close to a 270.
The 338Fed, just because I am not a fan of the 308 as a hunting round. SO for what you can't do w/ the 260, say elk round, I would choose the 338Fed.

With 18" to 20" barrels, I find the 308 to be an excellent calibre.

It can do anything that the lesser calibres can do, and step up to bigger stuff when needed..

Also I have always been a big fan of the concept of the 358 Win. But it has been a dead duck for many years.

I did have a 20" 350 Rem Mag, and really liked it... But I traded it for a 20" 375 H&H...

The 338 Federal is the new short action darling...

It does stand the best chance of making it as a short actioned medium bore, mainly because it has some light bullet loads with "high velocity"... And to succede in the US, Shooters have the "need for speed..." But it will not be around long IMHO, because it is not speedy enough...

Not that I think that the 338 Fed, 358 Win or the 350 Rem Mag are not great killers, because they are... They just do not have enough panache, to last, IMHO...

So, I have a short light 375 H%H.

Yes, it is a little thumpy, with full power H&H ammo, but with reduced power reloads, you can duplicate the power, recoil, and the killing ability of the 358 Win...
[And for ranges under 250 yards, on any NA game, with the proper bullet, I consider the 358 Win a most excellent cartridge.]

You only need to use full power H&H loads, when you go to Jurassic Park.

But to answer you question with in your specific guidlines, I would build a 308 and a 358 Win.

Also I think 18 to 20" barrels are PERFECT for such rifles.

I have shot 18 to 20" 308 rifles to 800 yards with excellent results.

Not that I would shoot game that far, but I have killed javelina at 412 yards [lazered] with my 19 3/4" Blaser R 93 Tracker with a 4X scope.

I fired only one shot.

But I will admit that the scope had a Ballistic Cam...

I guess Iam boring ing I picked the 243 and 308.

I voted 22-250 & .308

The former for small game/vermin & the latter for larger quarry, as I can't envision going after anything where a well placed 180gr bullet wont suffice.

I chose 257R and 338 Federal because it's what I have and I love both rounds. I also have a 308 but feel the 338 gives me the wider upper range if I could only have 2. The 247R gives me 87-120 and the 338 gives me 160-225. It would kill me not to have a 308 in my collection, I just couldn't imagine it.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
I'm not sure you can get a 257Bob to run well in a true 2.8" length action.

The Bob runs just fine in a 2.8 even with the longer 120gr. bullets. Not a problem at all.

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
I'm not sure you can get a 257Bob to run well in a true 2.8" length action.

The Bob runs just fine in a 2.8 even with the longer 120gr. bullets. Not a problem at all.

What he said.

7x57 and .375 H&H I don't need anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I guess Iam boring ing I picked the 243 and 308.

Not boring at all.

I voted for 7mm-08 because my model 7, is my favorite all time deer rifle. An easy vote for me here.

The second vote, not so easy, was the 450 Marlin. I dont like much as a cartridge, redundant over 45/70 with an oddball belt thickness - But; it is a 45 and packs a punch.

That should be a "good for anything in North America" pair - could be a good gun rag story here.

I normally stick to the .30 calibers and up, but would consider a 7mm-08.

quote:

Originally posted by AzGuy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ted thorn:
I voted 7-08 and .308 /QUOTE]

And, by the numbers, the real difference between these two IS.......???

I was thinking the same thing...

what can either do that the other can't?

I picked 7mm-08 and 358Win.

AD

Hard to see .308 as "bigger" (or doing anything that the 7mm wouldn't do) - therefore voted .338 Fed. However, I think you'd be equally well off with the .358 Win.

In view of this, the smaller probably ought to be smaller than 7mm athough the 7mm-08 got my vote due to its overall versatility.
I'm thinking of slight overlap here so that if you leave/forget the other rifle or it e.g. breaks down, you could still use the other for the same hunting purposes. Therefore you'd be safer off with the 7mm as the smaller than, say, the .243.

I've been pondering around the same question but only for one gun rather than two. Due to my personal allergy towards the .308 - however excellent it is - I'm leaning towards the .338: it suits my hunting needs better than the 7mm as my game tends to be bigger cloven game: boar, moose etc., roe deer being at the smaller end.

Good poll!

- Lars/Finland

I voted 250 Savage, and 308 Win.
Have both chamberings now, and the 250 Savage is about the most user friendly chambering a guy could want. I have two rifles in standard 250 Sav, plus one in 250 AI.

I picked 250 and 358 they would suit me just fine.

I chose 260 Rem and 308 because I couldn't choose 260 twice!

I picked 22-250 and 308 thinking of a varminter on one end and a bigger stuff on the other end.Must be some others thought the same way as that combo shows up at least 3 times. GHD

quote:

Tell me why any are better than these two...by the numbers.

260 rem- lighter recoil, great bullets from 85grs to 160grs no animals could tell the difference between the 260 and 7-08

358win-its the most efficeient cartridge based on the 308case. Its bullet is much fatter than a .308, you can shoot pistol bullets in a 358 which allows hundreds of bullet combo's and the 308 is boring, hows that????

quote:

But the 358 is a terrible round.

Thats some funny shit, you should be a comic....

quote:

260 rem- lighter recoil, great bullets from 85grs to 160grs no animals could tell the difference between the 260 and 7-08

I dont have a 260, since I already found a perfect 7mm-08. I like the 260 on paper. I really dont get why the 6.5 sweed never caught on, but then I always wondered what was wrong with the 7x57. I guess in the old days American taste was for other bore sizes and once we had the military 308, that made better sense. The 308 never replaced the 06 for my hunting needs. I think the army would have been better off with a 6.5, but now we have the extremely small 223 POS.

I am sure there must be threads all over AR and other sites. The beauty of the 260 (IMHO) is that is will do so much better than the 243 as a light and youth deer rifle and other medium game like coyote. I would not say the 260 exactly equals either the 243 or 7mm08. But it is a nice option. I hope it survives the ctg wars.

I went with the 7mm-08 and the 358.

I ain't going by anything on paper, just actual experience and knowledge.

I have not shot or owned a 7mm-08, but know several folks that do, and they really like the round and have good success with it.

My wife does have a 257 Roberts that both of us and a few other folks have made plenty of one shot kills on deer and feral hog.

The reason I did not pick it has solely to do with the fact that unless a person is going to handload/reload, finding ammo for the Roberts can be extremely difficult, at least in north Texas, even at Cabela's.

As for the larger gun, I do not believe the 338 Federal will ever become that popular a round, jmo.

I also feel that way about the 260.

Since the parameters were for a short round, that left out the 35 Whelen so the next choice for me would be the 358 Win., it has been around a long time and still has its following in some areas.

As some one else stated however, and I would not have one of them, but it is a proven round and in my opinion would eliminate the need for 2 rifles, except for just wanting a second rifle, but the 308 would cover everything the 2 guns would do quite capably.