Yesterday I had the first opportunity to bloody my .338 Win Mag by shooting 2 Fallow deer. In both instances I took lung shots at about 50 m (not talking long range trajectories here). Both shots were quite similar and as far as I can tell I could see no differences as to animal reaction and in-out wounds when compared to the 9,3x62.

[ 11-06-2003, 15:45: Message edited by: Andr� Mertens ]

Andre--

I suspect the 338 Win Mag is ballistically superior to the 9.3 x 62 ON PAPER, but your experience kind of bears out my subjective feelings on the two calibers--both can and will do the job on larger North American and European game species. I also suspect the 338 provides about 100 meters/yards more effective range due to higher energy and trajectory flatness.

My choice to sell a 338 Win Mag and replace it with the 9.3 x 62 has two primary beses--

1) Magazine capacity--5 with the unbelted rounds, 3 with the belted mags in most rifles. The rifle's venues include "bear discouragment", and the two extra rounds is a BIG plus.

2) I could never get decent performance from the 338 Win Mag with cast bullets--3 different rifles, 2 different molds. The CZ-550/9.3 x 62 has been VERY good with cast and paper-patched bullets, and can almost equal both accuracy and velocity with cast bullets that it can achieve with jacketed projectiles.

I suppose the extra little bit of frontal area would amke a little difference as well. I have not owned a .338 yet but it would have a slight edge for 350 yard shots I suppose but in close to medium ranges the 9.3 does pack a whallop.

Gentlemen

Both rounds are fantastic rounds on all kinds of animals. Which is the best is a matter of taste.

/ JOHAN

I have a CZ 550 and a SHR 970 in 9.3X62 and a Model 70 in .338 Win Mag. At the distances that I like to shoot (250 yards or less), I prefer the 9.3X62. There seems to be a little less meat damage with the 9.3X62 at the shorter distances.

I just picked up a CZ550 in 9.3x62 yesterday, so my experience is limited. I originally was going to build a rifle in .338-06, but after looking further the 9.3 seemed better, since the heavy bullets are available, and it's legal for DG in most African countries. I'm pleasantly suprised with the wood quality, just a nice gun for $429.

Jstevens did you get a lux or American model ?? mine is the lux and I am wrapped with it. I love the set trigger and I also scored some nice wood. There a tasteful rifle IMHO. Holds five down and one up the spout shoots really well and hits hard, can't wait to try it on pigs some time.

I have a 2-7 leupold in warne fixed mounts Ideally I would like to have a 1-4x20 on it but I had the 2-7 kicking around so thats what it got.

I am using Lapua brass with wlr primers and 56 gr of AR2208 behind the 270 gr speer I want to muck around with woodleigh's next either the 250 gr bullet or the 286 gr protected point.

Let us know what loads what scope etc.

Get a 35 Whelen and you can use cheap 30-06 brass, and .357 bullets are cheap and plentifull.

On paper the 30/06 is superior to the 45/70 but I have shot a lot with both and within 150 yards I do not find this to be the case with the 45/70 being a better killer hand down. I suspect the same may be said of the 9.3x62 but mayeb to a lesser degree with the 9.3 only having slightly more frontal area. But I like frontal area over speed stuff bleeds better with big holes. Any animal shot with a .366 or larger bullet usually leaks like garden hose and that means for me that it will not get that far.

My CZ is the American, wish they'd make an American with sights and barrel band swivel. I still haven't even fired it yet, mounted the scope and can't get away from work to sight it in.

PC: I hunt moose in bear country, and use perhaps the most popular cartridge in Alaska, a .338WM. I have killed most of my moose with 230-grain FS bullets, except for this year when I used a 250-grain A-Frame, and three years ago when I used a 250-grain Partition.

A few years ago, I shot a moose that was broadside to me, 100 yards away. The 230-grain FS, a little high through the lungs, sent blood spraying all over the tundra on the far side of the moose. By the time I had reloaded the chamber for a second shot, the moose had dropped on its side.

The moose I shot this year with an A-Frame, dropped on its side with two legs up in the air, deader than a door knob. This one was shot at around 225-250 yards.

I shot another moose, broadside, in the middle of a field, 200 yards away. I aimed so the 230-grain FS would hit a spot right behind the shoulder bone, low through the lungs. The FS hit the shoulder bone instead, clipped the top of the heart, broke the far shoulder bone, and exited. The moose dropped on the spot, on its belly, like hit by lighting.

I have killed other moose with the same results, and only one, which is the biggest one I have killed, walked maybe 25 yards after the shot. My hunting partner found the FS bullet stuck on the hide. This bullet is the only FS I have recovered from moose so far. On a quartering shot, It broke the near shoulder, traveled through the lungs, and stopped at the far side, on the hide.

Now, my hunting partner killed a moose with an antler spread of 65-1/2". He used a smaller bullet, or a 180-grain out of his .30-06. He shot it three times through the lungs, from 200 yards (or so) away.

[ 11-14-2003, 07:55: Message edited by: Ray, Alaska ]

Ray,

have you tried the woodleigh bullets on moose yet ??

I reckon the 9.3x62 would have a similar effect, I can tell a big difference between the 30/06 & the .375 H&H on pigs with the .375 putting them down much more epmhatically.

You live in a great part of the world and it sounds like you have had some great experiences.

PC: I haven't tried Woodleigh bullets, but Ray Atkinson and others can only say good things about them.

I started hunting late, after retiring from the military in 1994, so my hunting experience is not that great. But I was lucky enough to retire in Alaska where large game such as moose are abundant, and I listened to my experienced hunting partners' advise before firing my rifle. I didn't know much about shot placement back then, but I learned from these guys. We hunt primarily for meat, since moose meat is very nutritious. For some reason I have been the lucky one to kill a moose each year, so I have been sharing the meat with them. By the time we finish skinning and quartering a moose, often they just relax and enjoy being in the outdoors for the rest of the season, since the meat is sufficient for the three of us.

Ray--

Both you and those hunters you share the field with sound like a group I would feel privileged to hunt with.

There are a bunch of folks on this board and the others I frequent that would be a great pleasure to meet and share experiences with. The shooting fraternity has always been my primary social exchange, and these boards help confirm that shooters and hunters are much the same throughout the world--highly motivated quality people always willing to assist with info, experience, and hands-on real-world knowledge.

THANK YOU for privilege of your company, and I hope that as our many discussions continue that I can contribute quality information like that given to me herein.

Mrs. Deputy Al wanted to say THANKS LOADS for the info on the CZ x 375 H&H. She doesn't mind the rifle acquisition at all, but remarked that we're going to need another gun safe if this sort of thing continues. A fine lady in so many ways, but doesn't see the big picture at times. :-)

I know many people speak highly of Woodleigh bullets. That is not my experience.

Woodleighs are very soft and expands to walloping sizes and therefore penetration is often sacrificed.

I used 270 grs Woodleigd Soft Nose in my 375 Wea a few years� back and actually recovered bullets from mid sized red stag. The bullets were travelling at about 2900 f/s.

In lower speeds they seemed to work fine, although a few of my friends were on a buffalo hunt a couple of months ago. Loaded their 375 H&H with 350 grs Woodleigh and still lacked penetration. MV of only 2300 f/s shouldn't whack the bullet that hard either.

The stay together all the time but in my opinion expands too much for big game. I would much rather use an A-Frame, North fork or a Speer African GS.

Sauer,

yes woodleigh's do expand but god theyhang together and retain heaps of weight. On the woodleigh packets you will now see the reccomended impcta velocity for each bullet, this will guide you as to what speed you should be driving them at. Also thye have toughened up there .416 410 gr bullets with a thicker jacket for the reason you state, I am not sure if other calibres have gotton this treatment.

The truth is from the 06 to the 375 it is near impossible to tell any difference with simular shot placement......

Ray, may I please have permission with you to disagree on your opinion about know diff in recation from similar shot placement between calibres 30/06 & .375 H&H

IMHO the .375 with a similar hit puts thing down a lot harder....but thats just what I have noticed, in theory it has to a 300 gr .375 bullet at 2500 fps V 30/06 180 gr bullet at 2600 fps.

PC,
In a cull hunt in Yellowstone park that very test was performed with the 06 and 375 on elk, and shots were placed exactly at short range in the culling of several thousand elk, the results of that test supports my claim..It was mentioned by Jack O'Connor who made same claim..Yes the 375 won, but only by a -5 yd. margin, as I recall, that being the number of yards/ft. they went before expiring...

I have shot a lot of large antelope, as well as smaller antelope, along with deer and pronghorn etc. with both calibers and I have seen little if any difference other than the 375 leaves a better blood trail...You shoot them, they run 25 to 100 yards with both calibers. I have observe perhaps 3 times that number shot by others with both calibers.. That, at least, has been my experience, and from where I draw my references. Others may have reached another conclusion and I respect that.

Your probably technically correct, but the difference is hardly noticable as far as I can tell.....

Ray, cut me a bit of slack mate I am trying to justify my need of big bore rifles on pigs & hoppers here

Ray is probably correct, but I know I can use any ammo from WalMart in my 338 and drop anything smaller than a brown bear or buffalo with no trouble whatsoever. I am not sure that you could say the same for the 30-06.

I know a bunch of Brown Bear guides that swore by the 30-06 for back up with 180 and 200 gr. Noslers, one being my main man Phil shoemaker, some of them changed their minds after many years of success and went to bigger guns, usually over an incident..but the fact remains they were successful with the 06 for years, I suggest the same incident could happen even with a 505, but who knows...and like you I am a little more comfortable with more gun in DG territory be it Africa or Alaska...

I've read several accounts of the yellowstone culling operations and culling done by a forest ranger elsewhere on national forest over the years. The latter used both a .375 and an 06 with a .270 used on occasion.All with cheap remchester ammo. The article pertained to the use of a high shoulder shot.

The forest ranger in question killed hundreds of elk,and deer with the high shoulder shot,which in most cases takes out both the top of the shoulder blade plus the spine and due to there being alot of nerves in this region of the body,drops animals like a shit sandwhich.The particular ranger kept notes on all of the kills and claimed the farthest any animal hit this way went,was around 3 to 5 steps. On elk you're talking about an area of around 12 inches square. Its really more of a testament to shot placement,then caliber. I've killed alot of deer in this manner and they hit the ground like they've been brain shot.