Well, the Europeans get 2700fps+ with 200gr bullets in the 8x57, will the 338/06 do much better than that?

The 8,5x63 ("Reb") does indeed significantly better than the 8x57 IS in every respect.

Carcano

Loadtech says loaded to the same pressure you can get about 150fps more from the 338-06. About the same difference as the 7x57 and 280.

I got 2,780 fps with the Nosler 210 from my 22" barreled 338-06.

I think the 30-06 is a better round than either the 8x57 or 338-06 all the mental gymnastic's aside...

Gentlemen
I doubt 338-06 would have any actual advantages over a 8X64S Brenneke. What is it 8,5X63 or 338-06 does better than 318 W&R or 8X64S?

Cheers
/JOHAN

Sure it is, you are going to get about 100fps over the same weights from the little 8x75 case. How much "better" a round is it? Probably not worth the time it's taking us to discuss it, but then again, it's not hunting season.

For deer hunting there is no performance edge between the two, for elk the 338-06 using 250 grain bullets will have a slight edge. The 30-06 with the right bullets has a range advantage on both.

quote:

between the two, for elk the 338-06 using 250 grain bullets will have a slight edge.

I guess I should have titled this thread "that much better", because as pointed out out, the 338/06 does have a "slight" advantage.

If we enter the 8mm/06 (or 8X64S) into the equasion, the "slight advantage" becomes even more insignificant.

As Brad pointed out, he can get "2780 fps with a Nosler 210 from a 22" barrel" in his 338/06.

An 8mm/06 will easily hit 2800fps w/ 200gr Noslers from the 23 3/8" military barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
Well, the Europeans get 2700fps+ with 200gr bullets in the 8x57, will the 338/06 do much better than that?

"Well, the Europeans get 2700fps+ with 200gr bullets in the 8x57,...."

Well, if they're getting 2700fps+ with 200gr bullets in the factory loaded ammo, then I haven't found that make/brand.

-Bob F.




Blaser http://www.blaser.de/ Germany
Hirtenberger http://www.hirtenberger.at/ Austria (web site no longer lists sporting ammo)
Lapua http://www.lapua.com/ Finland
Norma http://www.norma.cc/ Sweden
Prvi Partizan http://www.prvipartizan.com/ Serbia
RUAG Munition http://www.ruag.com/ http://www.swissmun.com/e/sport/ Switzerland
RWS http://www.rws-munition.de/ Germany
Sako http://www.sako.fi/ Finland
Sellier & Bellot http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/ Czech Republic

quote:

Well, if they're getting 2700fps+ with 200gr bullets in the factory loaded ammo, then I haven't found that make/brand.

-Bob F.

I stand corrected, however Brenneke did (if I remember corectly)at one time list a 198gr TUG @ 2740fps.

Still a 198gr TIG @ over 2600fps and a 220gr Sierra game King @ over 2400fps is still nothing to sneeze at.

quote:

I stand corrected, however Brenneke did (if I remember corectly)at one time list a 198gr TUG @ 2740fps

I found the link that listed "Brenneke Ideal", 198gr @ 2732fps.

"Brenneke Ideal"

This may be dated information, but it is not something I "made up.

quote:

Originally posted by JOHAN:
Gentlemen
I doubt 338-06 would have any actual advantages over a 8X64S Brenneke. What is it 8,5X63 or 338-06 does better than 318 W&R or 8X64S?

Cheers
/JOHAN

Well Johan .. The .338 shoots these new design
bullets better



Thats the bullet maker herself UltraMag

Here is a better look at the new design she has


And you can order them in about anyweight you like . Thay will work in everything from a 338x06 to a 338x378 . All you need do is order the bullet weight and jacket wall thickness from her.



Come vist the forum for more details

Bulletsmiths.Info Forums

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
Well, the Europeans get 2700fps+ with 200gr bullets in the 8x57, will the 338/06 do much better than that?

Yup, 2850 fps for 3612 FPE with W760 or H414. It would be hard to catch the 338-06 with the Mauser 8mm since the latter gives up BOTH bore diameter and case capacity to the 338-06.

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

quote:

I stand corrected, however Brenneke did (if I remember corectly)at one time list a 198gr TUG @ 2740fps

I found the link that listed "Brenneke Ideal", 198gr @ 2732fps.

"Brenneke Ideal"

This may be dated information, but it is not something I "made up.

wildcat junkie,

Interesting. I just don't know accurate the recguns.com information is. 198 gr at around 2700-2750 fps sure sounds more like 8x60 ballistics to me. But, I don't claim to be an expert on past factory loadings for the Mauser cartridges.

"Still a 198gr TIG @ over 2600fps and a 220gr Sierra game King @ over 2400fps is still nothing to sneeze at."

Well, that's for sure!!! BTW: I'll be taking my Remington Model 700 Classic in 8x57JS to South Africa this coming August on a plains game hunt. It will be be backup rifle. My primary rifle will be my CZ 550 in 9.3x62. My 8x57 load is a 220 gr Woodleigh round nose at 2400 fps (chronographed).

-Bob F.

quote:

Interesting. I just don't know accurate the recguns.com information is. 198 gr at around 2700-2750 fps sure sounds more like 8x60 ballistics to me. But, I don't claim to be an expert on past factory loadings for the Mauser cartridges.

BFaucett;


As I said, this data may not be current. Several years ago I had a discussion with someone about this load and I think it was the TUG bullet that was being used @ the time(although Brenneke no longer lists this bullet in .323 198grs) and the TUG is shorter than the TOG thereby effectively increasing the case capacity @ a given COL.

What is interesting though is that the Norma data listed does agree with the data you posted.

quote:

Well Johan .. The .338 shoots these new design
bullets better

I would like to see the Ballistic Coeffecient of that bullet!

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

quote:

Well Johan .. The .338 shoots these new design
bullets better

I would like to see the Ballistic Coeffecient of that bullet!

Your more then welcome to come to the web site and ask her yourself if you like .

Bulletsmithing forum

Don't know why I bothered but here is something from that forum.

"Mahalo Martin for putting up the pics you give me way too much credit for the bullets Laughing Laughing Laughing My boyfriend and his cousin are the ones who deserve the credit im just learning but love it alot its a whole new dimension to shooting etc. and thanks again for your help and support.

Aloha John, Thanks for the compliment on the bullets. Those in the pics are 180 (Bottom Row) and 210 (Top Row) and they are 4S ogives. Yes they are open tips and at the moment we are using .030 Jackets from Butch. Hope that answers your questions.

As far as design goes its a rebated boattail open tip bullet with a serrated jacket mouth we use a serrator with 6 cutters with a 4S ogive point former. We hope to use this bullet in Africa come next year on Plains Game."

It seems like the bullet is just a hollow point lead filled bullet.

I have a couple of 8x57 rifles and 1 338-06. As far as I can see, the 8x57 with 200 grain bullets and the 338-06 with 210 grain bullets are about equal. The nice thing about the 338-06 is that the 210 grin Partition and BT shoot to the same approximate POA and give you a light game and heavier game option.

Jeff

quote:

It seems like the bullet is just a hollow point lead filled bullet.

Uhh No its not "Just"

But thats ok shoot what every you like Savage99.
And my 1000 grain and 1100 grain .700 Diameter bullets are just lead and copper.

No theres alot more thats goes into a bullet and its called Design.

The design of any give object play a part in the effectiveness of the object in this case its a Bullet Design.

And the "serrated jacket mouth" and the
"Rebaited Boattail" on a .338 diameter bullet

Martin

PA Bullet's

Martin,

Did that lady state in the forum that she has just started swaging bullets?

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
Martin,

Did that lady state in the forum that she has just started swaging bullets?

Yes sir thats what she said ..

although to tell the truth its her boy friend thats making the bullets shes just learning
but he has had very good advice and teaching
all the way through . Not in that one post is the fact that these bullets are very close copy of the Sierra Matchking hollow point boattail
What has been added is a deaper and longer serrated jacket mouth for a more controlled expansion of the bullet on impact .
These bullets are very much like those used by another friend of mine ...save these have a rebaited boattail added on .
To insure a better expantion on bigger game such as plians game a thicker jacket should be used such as a 0.040 thick wall .

But as i have already said that would be the person ordering the bullets call as to weather he or she wished to go a thicker jacket wall
or weight on the bullet