I wonder ,
How come so many rifles these days, have such short barrels. 16 inches ,seems to short to me.
I suppose for a police urban sniper its ok.
I mean most likely shots will be inside 200 yards.
So you don't need much velocity, but in any .308 that might get some hunting use , that seems to short to me.
I like a 20 inch or longer for my sporters.
The Ruger scout rifle is a great idea, but again 16.1 inch ? they do have one that's 18pluss.
But again i would prefer 20.
A 16.5 inch tube is just going to cost to much velocity.
I'm talking bolt guns here. AR platforms are different animal for a different purpose.
Opinions please ? ...tj3006

Well, some people think they need very short barrels for patrol purposes etc and a .308 or .30/06 will probably still give a higher velocity from 16 inches than a .30/30 or the pistol calibres considered more suited to that barrel length.

That said, there is a considerable velocity loss and, much worse, a great increase in noise.

A hunting mate bought a .338 mag with a 26-inch barrel for sambar hunting and I suggested he get a couple of inches lopped off for use in our bush, which can be quite thick. Meantime, I went hunting open country with my 270WSM, which has a 23.5-inch tube. Unfortunately, I needed to fire about five rounds in rapid succession with no time to even think of earplugs. That was six months ago and my ears have not recovered yet, and maybe never will.

So, I told my mate not to shorten his barrel - no amount of scrub in the way can be worse than tinnitus for the rest of your life. The difference in noise may not be that much in the long barrel but, unless you are prepared to hunt all day with earplugs in, it's your only hope.

In our youth a buddy of mine and I stomped the Colorado highlands ; he with a mod. 760, 30-06, 18" barrel and I with a 6.5 Carcano Sporterized carbine. We did quite well, only because no one let us know that we were disadvantaged with those short barrels. roger

I must blame my poor hearing on a deep purple concert in 1974 !
I had not thought of the noise factor, that i think is probably somewhat reduced with the smaller powder charge of the .308 win.
...tj3006

I have three 308s. A 18.5" Ruger 77 RSI, a 16" FNAR and most recently a 20" Savage Stainless Lightweight. The are all really handy rifles. I don't think the difference in velocity matters 300 yards and closer. I do like the handling of a compact rifle.

I went through a short barrel phase I use them less often then my longer barreled ones.

Friend of mine brought over a Rem M700 SPS in .308, barrel was short and medium heavy (20" or 18" I'm guessing).
That rifle really impressed me. With factory ammo it easily shot sub 1" groups.
I should have chronographed it but with accuracy like that who cares if it is 100 fps slower than a 24" tube. Handy and accurate work for me.

Why is a 26" barrel considered short & quick pointing on a shotgun, let long & unwieldy on a rifle?

I like barrels around 24" on a rifle.

I have a 16" barreled gun for deer under 300 yards, and a 32" barreled gun for long range deer.

If shots are close there's no perceivable difference in ballistics...an inch or two shouldn't make you miss if you know your rifle well, and it's a whole lot easier to pack through the woods.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
Why is a 26" barrel considered short & quick pointing on a shotgun, let long & unwieldy on a rifle?

Sight radius , denser pattern and a little more speed . roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
Why is a 26" barrel considered short & quick pointing on a shotgun, let long & unwieldy on a rifle?

Sight radius , denser pattern and a little more speed . roger

In a break-action shotgun, 26" is kinda short; not so much in a long-action pump or auto - or a double rifle where weight out there can really be felt.

quote:

Why is a 26" barrel considered short & quick pointing on a shotgun, let long & unwieldy on a rifle?I like barrels around 24" on a rifle.

I think your question answers itself. it is Bias of view and maybe the fact that you have to swing a shotgun and we are so very used to resting our rifles for standing shots in the modern era. I have both kinds and find both useful but prefer 24" an over. Just finished 5 days of hunting whitetail with my 458 Whitworth 24" barrel in both heavy cover and open prairie. Loaded with Cast bullets it is a fine and fun deer rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:

quote:

Why is a 26" barrel considered short & quick pointing on a shotgun, let long & unwieldy on a rifle?I like barrels around 24" on a rifle.

I think your question answers itself. it is Bias of view and maybe the fact that you have to swing a shotgun and we are so very used to resting our rifles for standing shots in the modern era. I have both kinds and find both useful but prefer 24" an over. Just finished 5 days of hunting whitetail with my 458 Whitworth 24" barrel in both heavy cover and open prairie. Loaded with Cast bullets it is a fine and fun deer rifle.

In break action double barrel shotguns I prefer at least a 28" barrel for a smooth swing. Shorter barrels seem to jerk around too much.

Even on repeaters I don't find the 28" barrel unwieldy.

Well thanks for the replies !
I still think 20 inches is short enough , can't imagine as a hunter , wanting one much shorter.
There are always odd situations that come up.
I mean if i was crawling through a thicket after a black bear. But i would prefer a good stout revolver
In that situation...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by tjroberts:

There are always odd situations that come up.
I mean if i was crawling through a thicket after a black bear. But i would prefer a good stout revolver
In that situation...tj3006

I did that with a 44 Mag. on my hip while dragging a 24" barreled 06 through willow tunnels . About 1/2 way through I got to thinking "what if I do meet that bear in here?" when I told this story to one of my cowboy buddies he said " No problem all you have to do is rub shit on his nose" I asked " were the hell will I get the shit?' he replied " don't worry it'll be there."
As fate would have it the bear wasn't at home. True story. roger

You will find reports on line of tests of shorter barrels, where they cut them off an inch at a time. The high velocity cartridges suffer more than the moderate ones. Using those results you can use one of the many on line ballistic calculators to check resulting bullet path (drop). That way you can get to real facts instead of guessimating.

Now you've got me curious. I will check the net for noise tests.

It is nice to know that I am not alone in preferring 24 inch and longer barrels on a hunting rifle.

In ones lifetime of hunting and shooting, it's very likely that one will go from long barrels to short and short barrels to long many times before he makes it to the happy hunting grounds..I have been back and fourth a number of times, sometimes in a weeks span!!

My conclusion is: It makes no difference one way or the other..I love a long 26 inch tube, especially for running shots and offhand shooting..I love a heavy barreled carbine especially for running shots and off hand shooting..Damnit!! Apparantly I like barrel heavy guns for off hand shooting and running shots, its just a matter of how I get there!

Other than that:
better ballistics usually with longer barrels but not always, another dammit.

The 4 inches of barrel on the long tube doesn't mean a thing even in the thickest of bush, other than in the mind of the shooter, my pocket knife is that long! dammit

Longer sight radius, I can't tell any difference at the target, dammit,

I could write a book on the pros and cons, but the answer is always the same as above. dammit.

Lots of our desires in rifle barrel length depends on the type hunting we do and the country we frequent.

I'm more of a spot-n-stalk guy so my rifles don't need to be short. I do like them light for backpack sheep hunting but even then, that rifle has a light 25" barrel and a Kevlar stock.

I like barrel-heavy rifles because I can swing and/or shoot off-hand much better than with a butt heavy gun.

I like 24-26! I never sling a rifle when I'm moving through brush and thank God I never have to hunt in there like some of you poor guys! haha

There are lots of ways to skin a cat and yours works best for YOU and mine work best for ME.

Zeke

oh, and I shoot lots of skeet and 45 years ago, when I started, you HAD to have a 26" barrel on either a break action or otherwise.

Now I see (and shoot) way more 30-32" barrels on the skeet field than the "old" 26 inchers.

Longer barrels ROCK! for me.

Zeke

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I

Longer sight radius, I can't tell any difference at the target, dammit,

Long sight radius is an advantage on rifles but my original reference was POINTED at shot guns. How many ATA guys use 24" Trap guns on the 26 yard line? roger

Short rifle barrels (for the most part) are a current fad derived from the tactical gun craze. There is still a group wanting sniper style long tubes to play with (26"-30"). Hunting rifles are still most common in the 20-22 inch for non magnum calibers and 24 to 26 for most magnum calibers.
Since the modern shotgun powders burn in less than 16" of barrel, the only real need for a longer shotgun barrel is handling. Patterning is handled by back boring and choking. The Current crop of short barreled turkey guns should help prove the point. Chrono an 18" 12ga and a 30" inch and see what you get. Of course there are specific desires for a "I just want one". I once cut a Ruger 458 Win to 16" for a guy to use as his brown bear defence gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Brice:
You will find reports on line of tests of shorter barrels, where they cut them off an inch at a time. The high velocity cartridges suffer more than the moderate ones. Using those results you can use one of the many on line ballistic calculators to check resulting bullet path (drop). That way you can get to real facts instead of guessimating.

Now you've got me curious. I will check the net for noise tests.

Have you discovered anything useful, yet?

I guess a 26-inch barrel might actually increase the intensity of a cartridge by lifting the velocity - but at least more powder should be burnt and the nuisance is farther away. For that reason I can never get too excited about Steyr F88s and other bullpup rifles. In the case of the Steyr, the noisy ejection port is right beside your ear, too.

Oddly enough I started life shooting lead shot at ducks and geese from a 30" shotgun barrel with a full choke and deer with c&c bullets from an 18.5" rifle barrel. Now I shoot all copper rifle bullets from a 26" barrel and steel at ducks and geese from a 23" barrel. What the hell? I going backwards!

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
Oddly enough I started life shooting lead shot at ducks and geese from a 30" shotgun barrel with a full choke and deer with c&c bullets from an 18.5" rifle barrel. Now I shoot all copper rifle bullets from a 26" barrel and steel at ducks and geese from a 23" barrel. What the hell? I going backwards!

Nope..pretty much what happened to me as well...makes sense at least to me. I like longer barrels on rifles, never seemed to hinder me in any way. Plus I like the looks and slight performance increase. win win IMO

I did that with a 44 Mag. on my hip while dragging a 24" barreled 06 through willow tunnels . About 1/2 way through I got to thinking "what if I do meet that bear in here?" when I told this story to one of my cowboy buddies he said " No problem all you have to do is rub shit on his nose" I asked " were the hell will I get the shit?' he replied " don't worry it'll be there."
As fate would have it the bear wasn't at home. True story. roger[/QUOTE]

I dont know who your cowboy buddy is but I love him!!! Thanks for the abdominal work out!

Oh, you short barreled blasphemers! A short barrel is anything less than 26 inches. Heretics! Short Barrel Idol Worshipers! Get thee a proper rifle with a long barrel! Repent! I call upon the Patron Saint of Oak and Blue Steel Ray Atkinson to save you all!

We now return you to your regular programming!

quote:

I mean if i was crawling through a thicket after a black bear. But i would prefer a good stout revolver In that situation...tj3006

Been there done that shot a couple so close it if left powder burns on the bear. I good loaded 41 or 44 works fine.

The last one was about 5 feet 315gr hard cast between the eyes down into the body did the job well.

ups the pucker factor a bit that close.

I dont hunt brush and I live and hunt "out west" were the tallest thing growing in a sage brush. That being said I personally haven't found a use for any barrel longer than 22" and I much prefer my 16" carbines for most things. With a magnum I can see wanting more barrel but within the realm of .30-30 through .30-06 shorter barrels do just fine.

I love reading posts by those with no knowledge of history. Short barrels are hardly a "new fad" based on tactical black rifles. Many 19th century rifles had very short barrels, witness the "trapper" versions of lever action rifles, cavalry carbines, etc. Some of these had barrels shorter than 16". Just demonstrates that shooters will use firearms they believe to be best for their application.



.

Some advantages to rifles with short barrels:

lighter overall weight

brings center of gravity rearward

easier for carry and handling

fits better in luggage

allows the use of long suppressors, flash hiders, and muzzle brakes without becoming excessively long


Some disadvantages to rifles with short barrels:

bullet attains less velocity in a shorter barrel

not really compatible with a bipod

short sighting plane (for open sights)

.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Some advantages to rifles with short barrels:

lighter overall weight

brings center of gravity rearward

easier for carry and handling

fits better in luggage

allows the use of long suppressors, flash hiders, and muzzle brakes without becoming excessively long


Some disadvantages to rifles with short barrels:

bullet attains less velocity in a shorter barrel

not really compatible with a bipod

short sighting plane (for open sights)

Add "brings center of gravity rearward" to disadvantages too.

Muzzle weight aids a steadier hold.

The myth of short barrels:
In the fastest shooting sports for long guns, the winners use longer barrels because they are faster. Sporting Clays and CASS are examples.

Long barrels move the balance forward, resulting in a faster/smoother/ mount and shot. The follow up shot is therefore faster/better and the felt recoil and muzzle rise is less. Weight forward takes some of the wobble out of the muzzle. You young guys may not have any problem with that.

It's the opposite of what many people think. Most of my rifles have a little weight added to the forend. It makes them easier to hold steady and mitigates the recoil. As, I say, they mount and swing nicer with a little more weight up front.

Try it. If you have a plastic stock just pour about 1/2 lb. of loose shot in the webbing in the fore end. If you like the result then mix some epoxy in the shot for a perminant fix. With a wood stock you can route out the barrel channel and epoxy in a piece of brass or lead shot.

Many folks say that the short barrel is better in the thick bush. I say that if the bush is that thick than move back 3 inches or stand in a better spot. (chuckle.)

Having said all that, I know that there are lots of better hunters than me that really like short barrels. (B&M are short barrel fans and they have much more experience than I.) Also, I have some shorth barrel for my Enclore that make really handy little carbine. My PH like's short barrels. He says. "In the veld I do more carrying than shooting". He's got a point.

"I'm just sayin' " Brian

Hello again. Wildcat junkie. You are an independent thinker! I just noticed your quote re. "Our founding fathers were liberals..."

You hit the nail on the head! They were tough, independant thinkers who were not going to be pushed around by the establishment; a bunch of arrogant Englishmen. (No taxation with out representation.)
My forefathers came over to Boston just after the pilgrims in the early 1600''s from Southern England. The wheels were really falling off of merry old England about that time and independant thinkers were not popular with the establishment. ( Sound familiar?)

Our Founding Fathers were "tougher than boiled owl shit" but they were not lawless. They were just very able to think things through and "git-er-done."

The meaning and essence of the work liberal has been highjacked today.

Also, I see that you have done some independant thinking on barrel length too. Hair on ya' lad! Brian

In my 1st post i did mention hunting, and bolt guns.
I just don't see where a 16.5 inch barrel gives a big game hunter any advantage.
I suppose the guy who hunts the same stand every year and knows his shot will be a couple hundred yards or less is not hurt much.
I like my velocity to be 2700 or better , so i can shoot to 300 yards with very little hold over.
I think it would be hard to get that with a barrel that short. Maybe i,m wrong...tj3006

Surprised I hadn't responded yet, but I stand with Rusty here. Absolutely no reason to have a short barreled medium.

My first "nice" rifle when I was young was a Husqvarna lightweight .30-06 with a twenty inch barrel. It was perfect for high country hiking style of hunting in the Cascade mountains of Washington I prefer. I doubt it weighed more then maybe 7 1/4 pounds all up. With it I took my best elk to date.

The one thing I didn't care for was the muzzle blast and flash with the load I was using at the time nor how much it made my ears ring when I fired it. In my mind twenty two inches is about right for an '06 in the same general configuration which my current Winchester M70 featherweight is. Unfortunately the Husqvarna went down the road, the victim of a divorce. I would still love to have it back today.

So I guess this makes me a moderate in regards to barrel length depending on the caliber in question.

Short barreled rifles (bolt actions with 16+ inch barrels) are nice getting into and out of vehicles. They are easier to pack for travel. They don't get hung up as much on stuff while moving around (campsite, parking lot, trail head, etc.).

Now, add suppressors for those that have them. Trying walking around with an extra 7~9" hanging off your muzzle. A 16" bolt action and suppressor for feral hogs gives you your ~22" rifle. I don't want a 30+ inch effective barrel length.

With modern optics the sight radius issue is generally moot. For the distances most people shoot, the velocity loss is generally moot as well if the rifleman is semi-competent with their firearm.

If you are in your own house or a "shoot house", none of the above really applies. Muzzle blast, suppressors, semi-auto rifles, etc. change things drastically. However, your favorite hunting rifle can work very well with the right mindset and tactics. Moving outside your house or structure, things change again.

While there are valid reasons for wanting to use a short bolt action rifle in the "hunt", most people are being suckered in by the ads in glossy magazines and their mall ninja friends. They are buying them for the "tacticool-ness factor".

Personally, in a general hunting scenario I will always go for Remington Sendero style "production" rifle. I like my lightweights as well but, in an open area with shots at running game, a heavier long barreled rifle, like the shotguns on fields of clay, tracks and recovers better if more than one shot is needed.

I guess I'll come down on both sides of the fence. I have a .257 Roberts with a 24" tube that is balanced well and is deadly accurate. And I have another .257 that is a 20" mannlicher stocked beauty. At the distances I hunt a whitetail doesn't know the difference.