Looking ot buy a gun safe and was thinking of cannon because of their outstanding warranty. Anyone have an opinion on gun safes?

I didn't look at the Cannons but I looked over the Browning line and ended up with their Morgan Fort safe. I talked to some people that had safes that had made it through fires and from their experiences even the ones that weren't fire rated survived the fire remarkably well (and their contents of course!). So with their experiences I didn't see the need to get one that was highly fire rated, but I did want some fire rating. The Morgan Fort is rated for 1200 degrees for 30 minutes and I hope that I never have to find out if that's accurate.

It doesn't have the biggest, or most, bolts, but I figured that if anyone came well enough equipped to get into this one they would have gotten into something a little tougher as well. I think the saying, "Locks (or safes in this case) are meant to keep the honest people honest", is very true. If someone wants to get in bad enough, they'll get in, no matter what you've got.

The size and set up will be up to you to decide for your own needs, but the Browning line has a lot of options and you should be able to find something there to suit your needs. I don't make this point to the exclusion of other manufacturers.

Hope this helps,
Bob

Don't buy too small a safe! Buy the roomiest modle you can afford, you'll grow into it sooner than you think. I'll be safe shopping again next year, I think....

waldog,
Don't buy too small a safe! Buy the roomiest modle you can afford, you'll grow into it sooner than you think. [/QUOTE]

That is a great advice. I have choosen a 5 rifles gun safe that was enough some years ago, now i'm thinking to purchase an other rifle so need to purchase a bigger safe too.

Get one @ least one size bigger than you think you need. I have a Liberty and like it very much. I'm trying to decide between an additional safe or a much larger replacement.

Mmmm - man asks for help. All I know is that gun-safes seem to grow smaller over the years.

I bought a 3 gun safe - gave it to my little brother and replaced it with a 5 gun model.

Had the back cut off and and extended the depth so that it held 5 rifles down each side - gave it to my elder brother.

Then I bought a second hand bank vault door and when I built my house I built a walk-in strong room off my drawing office.

Even thought that I had enough space .....

Now I'm thinking of replacing the door to the drawing office with a metal faced and framed door, chucking out the drawing machine, filing cabinets and filing shelves and building a dedicated gunsmithing/reloading room.

That's all taken me close on 40 years - I wonder where I'll be in another 20 years time?

Take heart - a 3 gun safe is a beginning.

cheers edi

It is cheaper to buy a safe that is "too large" now than to buy a second safe later. Take it from me.

There are a lot of things to consider when buying a safe, First of all safe' keep honest people honest. A pro will get into your safe if he wants to.
A fire safe is a good idea unless your in the country and it'll take 30 minutes to contain your house fire and you paid extra for a 20 minute rating, probably won't work. secondly will you want to shoot the gun if it got hot??
Where will you put it? If you want to put it in a closet or in the basemennt you will not need the fancy finish.
The size, what will you put in it and what do you plan on buying in the future.

I've been looking at Heritage safes lately, trying to figure which route that I should go. Do I get the great big model, which I don't need right now, but will in the future, or do I go for a smaller, less bells and whistles model. My dealer showed me the basic model, with the biggest difference being exterior finish, other than size. I can buy two of the smaller less decked out safes for the same price as the "nice" big one. I had originally decided on the sigle, big one. The dealer has me re-thinking my decision, now. There was a small difference in fire rating, the door was 1/16th of an inch thinner, it had 6 fewer bolts and a cheap painted finish, but was half the price.

Another thing I need to consider is where to put it in the house. Ideally, I want it in the basement. Due to stair configuration, the big one will not get down there. The smaller one will. I want to avoid at all costs putting it upstairs. If there is a fire, it's going thru the floor.....what's worse, guns burning up or smashing each other up in the fall? Just another thing to consider...

Check out Heritage, they seem to be a good safe for a pretty good price.

When I was going through your dilemma a few years ago I entered data for numerous safes into Excel and debated pros/cons and then spoke with a man at a gun store that didn't handle safes and he recommended bypassing the "gunsafes" and speaking with a local second-hand safe company.

Let me spell out with no illusions, THAT WAS THE SMARTEST THING I COULD POSSIBLY HAVE DONE!!!!!

Why? I got an absolutely HUGE two-door safe with fire/theft ratings several classifications above the nearest "gunsafe" for $1200 delivered. Even the pros will be delayed significantly with the door construction. The walls are two-inches of specially formulated concrete all around. I don't remember the exact numbers but it blows away the gunsafe ratings.

I'll add a little personal experience. I went through a fire where I USED to work and I learned a few things about storage. Number one, should you go through a fire don't open the safe the next morning as it's still hot inside and can ignite upon opening and encountering fresh oxygen. Two, our cheaper storage cabinets clearly showed a difference from the more expensive cabinets in that the cheaper model had files with charred tabs (the little part of a file folder that sticks up by itself) while the better cabinets didn't show this level of damage. Lastly, do everything you possibly can to locate your safe at the outer edge of the structure, preferable in a corner. The fire will be hottest in the center of the structure. In our fire it was essentially a complete loss in the dead center and even the middle stretches of outer walls. My office on the corner, while heavily damaged, still had a few items I was able to recover. (In the center the fire melted pyrodex glassware.)

The things that might keep you from doing the same as I in terms of the second-hand two-door safe:

Not close to a second-hand dealer (might not matter as you'd be shipping in a normal gunsafe too). My dealer's normal delivery area was within about 60 miles of St. Louis and would be reasonable about driving the truck a little further.

The need to build your own cabinetry as a normal safe will not be set up for guns. (Not a problem for me with my table saw and a dado blade)

Size vs. stairwell. You already mentioned size so you may not be able to get a large safe. (You could get two of these (a bit smaller of course) for what one gunsafe might cost (higher end)).

Looks. This is not one of the fancy gloss-painted jewels from the gunsafe companies so if you're wanting to make it a showpiece and the center of attention you may be better served working toward that goal as opposed to sheer functionality.

Lastly, if I ever build I will more then likely build a vault room so I'm not size limited.

Good luck,

Reed

First, I have a Cannon 52-rifle safe that I've owned since 1982. It is a good piece of work and has always performed well for me. But it's not nearly big enough....

Other things to consider:

1. If you get a gunsafe, decide early on whether you want a dehumidifier such as a "Goldenrod" inside it. If you do, Ask the dealer/manufacturer to put a small discreet hole in the back wall of the safe somewhere. Dehumidifiers mostly don't work without electricity. (I dont use my Goldenrod because I never got around to boring a hole in my safe for the cord.) I use some commercial "blue pills" which act much as do the rust prevention "chips" available from Brownells or Midway. Difference is, these last longer and are many times less expensive. One pill fills 1 cubic foot with a rust preventative vapor. If you want some, go the the CBA (Cast Bullet Association) website, join the cb-list, and ask there for them. There is a "list" member who can provide them to you, cheap.

2. Get as heavy a safe as you and your home can handle...especially if you get a small safe. I used to work the "Safe & Burglary" detail as a Sheriff's Deputy, and it is surprising how many people lose guns because the burglars carry away safe and all, and open the safes at their leisure. For some reason, they always seem to throw the safe and any unwanted contents in a river....

3. Remember, that a safe only protects stuff when you're not home. When you're home, the burglars become robbers. That is, they stick a gun in your ribs and say "Open the @#$%^&!! safe!!" If you're smart, you will.

4. No gun safe is too big. Your wife's jewelry, your truck title, home insurance policy, video camera, all sorts of things take up space in there nicely.

5. If you work for or know people at a large corporation which uses computers for business purposes, find out what they do with their old used "data safes". These days with data memory getting more and more micro-sized, a lot of those old safes are just in the way, occupying valuable company space. They have pay to a lot to get rid of old ones because they are so heavy. I got one about 6' wide x 7' high x 2-1/2' deep just for hauling it away. I then went to a gun shop, offered it to the owner in trade for a new Steyr-Mannlicher Professional and $200 of his money...with him to remove the safe! He took the deal in a heart beat. Those safes are worth well over $5,000 new.

Anyway, have fun with your quest.

And as everyone else has told you, when you get your next house just buy an old bank vault door...and build a walk-in vault, alarmed, with a CS-CN back-up.

[ 03-19-2003, 09:30: Message edited by: Alberta Canuck ]

And one more tip... Big heavy safes can be moved by one person rather easily, even if they weigh near a ton.

All you need is a 6' iron bar (for a lever), and 4 pieces of 3' long, 2-1/2-inch diameter heavy wall steel pipe. Use the lever to lift one end of the safe, and one-at-a-time put the pieces of pipe under the safe. Put one pipe at each end, and the other two equal distances apart across the bottom.

Then roll the safe the direction you want to go until one of the pieces which was in the middle is at the end. The piece that was on the end is now out from under the safe and needs to be carried around to the other end and slid back under the safe. One pipe/roller at a time you can easily move 2,000 pounds of safe and contents a long way, so long as you don't get out into the gravel or the grass.

The pry bar and placing pipe/rollers at an angle allow you to turn almost any corner with a little planning.

[ 03-18-2003, 03:01: Message edited by: Alberta Canuck ]

AC - Thanks for the lesson! I take back what I said about owning a safe. I only bowhunt...with a home-made bow and arrows!

Check out American Security safes. I don't own one yet, but I've got my eye on one once I'm done finishing the basement.

I got one of the 'Sportsman Steel' Safes single door units. I've told my girl friend that should the Camel Corp come over the hill we can hide out in there. The side walls of the safe are 1/4 in steel and the door is 3/8 in steel. Then the insulation and the carpeting the damned thing is huge and heavy.
Price was very reasonable.
Make sure you have a crew on hand when the trucker delivers it.
Jim

If you put your safe in the basement and there is a fire, what about the 3' of water left over after the fire. The safe are fire proof not water proof (right). Most safes have a hole or holes in the bottom for bolting down, water will seek it's own level. Just a thought.

If you have no floor drain and you're essentially living over an empty pond then it will fill with water. My house is walk out and built into a hill and would not hold water. Even if you have a floor drain it had better be functional I guess.

That's simply another variable to keep in mind.

One thing I figured I'd do back when I was considering one of those fancy/shiny safes was to build up the floor beneath the safe (if it wasn't on the ground floor) with floor jacks and other items to maintain support even if the floor burned out from under it. It would have a high center of gravity but if done properly would probably still require quite the blow to tip it over...think about dismantling that mess post-fire??? You'd probably need a crane.

Just thinking while typing.

Reed

We own a Fort Know and a Liberty. While I like both for what they are if I ever purchase another it will be a Fort Know. Or at least some newer model of the same thing and quality.

Good Hunting, "Z"