For those of you who have a mountain/light/sheep rifle, how many of you have iron sights on it? It sounds like a great idea for if my scope broke while in the mountains, but I want to see if it's a practical backup or just psychological.

Thanks for the input.

Good sights with some practice would be practical.

quote:

Originally posted by Antlers:
Good sights with some practice would be practical.

Dittos...

install the irons.....it's a very good idea.....you may never use them....but only once is enough!

If you're talking about a set of peep sights, that might work with a good bit of practice. Why not just carry along a back up scope sighted in on that rifle?

I like Irons, and would rather have them on than not. Irons on your gun add very little weight and you can be back in the game in seconds if need be.

what kind of peep would work well? Talley?

Is there a "pop-up" style of peep that work well with a low Leupold base setup?

Interesting topic; anyone have any pictures?

friar

It's funny you mention this. I just found a great deal on a Merkel K1 that I couldn't pass up and the Irons on it are just superb.

On the other hand my eyes aren't all that anymore and I'd not want to take a shot in low light over maybe 75 yards!

That's why 50 years ago click-adjustable Redfield and Lyman receiver sights were so popular on hunting rifles.

Zero the peep for 200-225 yards, then slip the "slide" with the peep on it out of the sight base and put it in your hunting jacket pocket, or in your back pack, fanny pack, whatever. Then install and sight in your scope and leave it on the rifle. With any luck, the scope will be on the rifle forever.

BUT, if the scope ever fails, just take the slide out of your jacket pocket, or wherever else you have it, slip it back into its base (doesn't require ANY tools to put the slide & peep back in place), and you're in business to continue hunting.

If you use Redfield-type scope mounts, you don't even need to carry a screwdriver to remove the scope. A Quarter stuck into a split in the end of a sturdy branch broken off a tree will serve to loosen the scope base rings to take the scope off. A screwdriver is handier of course, if you want to carry a very small one tucked away somewhere.

I've had such Lyman and/or Redfield receiver sights on my primary go-to bolt action hunting rifles for 60+ years. Have used them a few times, too. Out to 300 yards or so they work just great, and at ANY distance beat the heck out of trying to sight down the side of your barrel at that monster once-in-a-lifetime 5x5 muley buck on yonder ridge.

They add maybe 3 ounces to the weight of your gun, perhaps even less if you use the aluminum ones such as the Williams "Foolproof" brand.

Then of course, there are some modern peeps which are part of the scope mounts.

Whatever you do, I'd recommend having a permanent front sight on all your rifle barrels except on your benchrest guns. Then you can always add or remove a rear sight as you see fit.

Since "Yes" seems to be the resounding answer. Would you go with a shallow V express type sight or a peep sight?

quote:

Originally posted by Sevens:
Since "Yes" seems to be the resounding answer. Would you go with a shallow V express type sight or a peep sight?

Depends on your rifle and what you are used to.

On short barreled rifles an express-type sight with more than one leaf often means one with a long base, and that can appear pretty weird on a short barrel.

Because I like rifles that not only work well, but look pretty good. my .458 which I will have back in the next couple of weeks will have a ghost-ring rear sight, a 20-inch barrel, and a full mannlicher stock together with an NEGC barrel band red fibre front sight.

But it really doesn't count toward your question, as it will have no scope whatsoever and certainly is not a mountain rifle anyway.

I would go for a peep on a mountain rifle instead of any kind of express sight. You don't see folks shooting express-type sights in 1000 yard matches limited to iron sights, But you do see them doing it quite commonly with peep sights. That's because they are more accurate at longer ranges...not to mention easier to use well as one's eyes age.


With a ghost-type peep they are just as fast (if not faster for many folks) to use as an express sight is.

BUT I would not put a ghost-type peep on a mountain rifle either! My own prejudice tells me that I want a somewhat smaller diameter hole in my peep sight for mountain use than most ghost ring sights make available to me.

Mountains often mean longer shots, which usually means more time in hand to make the shot, so I would use the slightly greater precision of a smaller aperture in the peep.

But don't get the peep hole too small! When I used to shoot every Sunday of the year in long range iron sighted high power competition at 800 to 1,200 yards, I used a larger than average rear aperture...and in foggy weather I've shot 1,000 yard "possibles" on an occasion or two by just removing the aperture ring altogether and aiming through the hole it threaded into.

That's all just my own opinion based on the hunting & shooting I've done with them.

You need to look through some different peeps, preferably already mounted on rifles, to see what rows your boat. Then go with what you feel most comfortable with. That's what you will shoot best with if you ever have to use it.

I guess I'm in another camp.
I would not add sights to an ultra light rifle for sheep and goat hunting.
If I were hunting in the lower 48 I'm going to have another rifle scoped as a backup rifle at the truck. If I took a bad fall and banged up my gun I'm hiking out and getting rifle #2.
If I were hunting a fly in situation like Alaska I'd have a backup scope in rings, pre sighted and tested for POI at base camp.
Sheep and Goat hunts I've been on require lots of physical exertion but in reality I am rarely 3-4 hours from the truck or base camp.
If you took a bad enough fall to damage a scope how do you know your irons are still on? You going to start target practice in your Sheep hunting spot? What if you continue to hunt with irons and you are presented with that very do able 400 yard shot when you have your scoped rifle you going to trust semi familiar irons for that once in a lifetime Goat?
I'm not.
Your opinions may vary, not trying to disagree but this is based on my own Sheep, Goat and high mountain hunting experience.

quote:

Originally posted:
I guess I'm in another camp.
I would not add sights to an ultra light rifle for sheep and goat hunting.
If I were hunting in the lower 48 I'm going to have another rifle scoped as a backup rifle at the truck. If I took a bad fall and banged up my gun I'm hiking out and getting rifle #2.
If I were hunting a fly in situation like Alaska I'd have a backup scope in rings, pre sighted and tested for POI at base camp.
Sheep and Goat hunts I've been on require lots of physical exertion but in reality I am rarely 3-4 hours from the truck or base camp.
If you took a bad enough fall to damage a scope how do you know your irons are still on? You going to start target practice in your Sheep hunting spot? What if you continue to hunt with irons and you are presented with that very do able 400 yard shot when you have your scoped rifle you going to trust semi familiar irons for that once in a lifetime Goat?
I'm not.
Your opinions may vary, not trying to disagree but this is based on my own Sheep, Goat and high mountain hunting experience.

If the peep is on a slide which is easily removed when the scope is in place, what is there to damage? The steel base? Not likely....in fact, almost impossible. Those receiver sights worked great for more than 50 years until everyone got sold the idea they couldn't hit anything without a scope.

If it is a solid, silver-soldered on, single fixed blade steel express sight, it is also almost impervious to damage. Ever look at one of those things? They could almost do double duty as an anvil, and have to be filed to even sight them in. But once sighted, they stay that way.

I just don't want to have to pack around TWO scopes, both fragile by comparison to iron sights.

And the iron sights weigh another three ounces. A spare scope with rings will weigh at least 9-10 ounces and, if not carried with you at the time of the fall, will put your rifle out of action at least until you can get back to it. None of us have falls by appointment, and that humongous ram will inevitably appear right after one's fall, before the hunter can get back to "somewhere" that the uncarried spare scope is resting. I doubt the ram will stand there waiting for me while I hump 3 or 4 hours each way to camp and back.

So, is it carry an extra three ounces, or carry an extra 9 or 10?

Still, every one should use what he feels secure with. I am very secure in the knowledge I can hit that ram at 350 yards or farther with my iron sights. And they are not unfamiliar to me. Heck I can regularly hit a 12" bull at 1,000 yards with them; why not hit an 8" kill zone at 400? At least I'll have working sights when the ram stands there looking at me.

YMMV but, thanks, I'll use the irons as my spare. Come to think of it, I already do.

Uhhh, AC. Modern scopes are not that delicate and you're really talking about adding less than a pound to his pack. With the QR mounts they have nowadays, it would be the work of a second (or two) to change the scope out. If he is going on a sheep hunt and isn't in shape, he might as well pack it in anyway.
I agree that a good set of peeps can be highly accurate but they take practice, practice, practice to get good with if you plan on shooting beyond 100 yds. Buckhorn or express sights are good if you're shooting at something very large that is very close.
And please don't anyone tell me about Grandpaw Pettibone who shot deer at 1000 yds with his trusty thurty-thurty and buckhorn sights. To get even reasonably good with express sights takes even more practice, practice, practice.
And, of course, the question begs to be asked, is the op going to pay the time committment to get good with a backup sighting system that he MIGHT need?

I don't carry any more than needed. I understand the carry an extra scope idea, but if you changed scopes wouldn't you want to check it's zero?
With irons I'd not feel like I was taking a shortcut if I removed a scope and continued hunting with the irons.
As for practice... while I agree somewhat, I can tell you that I have guns I can shoot well enough to 300 yards with iron sights that I would not interupt a hunt to go get another scope. I don't get much practice with the irons these days but decent peep sights are quite capable of enough accuracy to take game plenty far out.

I have long since switched back to aperture rear sights on all of my hunting rifles. A couple are equipped with Griffin&Howe QD side mounts, and for those the scope is carried in a leather tube slung over my shoulder or in the pack. The scope only goes on in the event I need it. So far it is just along for the ride. I may stop carrying a scope altogether. A good quality QD mount will allow repeated removal of a scope and retain its zero each time. I proved that to my satisfaction with several G&H mounts.

As an aside, there's a fellow on the Savage collectors forum of the 24HCF who uses a tang sighted Savage 99 to regularly fill his big game tags in Montana.

I often wonder how the old timers filled their tags in the days before scopes were necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Uhhh, AC. Modern scopes are not that delicate and you're really talking about adding less than a pound to his pack. With the QR mounts they have nowadays, it would be the work of a second (or two) to change the scope out. If he is going on a sheep hunt and isn't in shape, he might as well pack it in anyway.
I agree that a good set of peeps can be highly accurate but they take practice, practice, practice to get good with if you plan on shooting beyond 100 yds. Buckhorn or express sights are good if you're shooting at something very large that is very close.
And please don't anyone tell me about Grandpaw Pettibone who shot deer at 1000 yds with his trusty thurty-thurty and buckhorn sights. To get even reasonably good with express sights takes even more practice, practice, practice.
And, of course, the question begs to be asked, is the op going to pay the time committment to get good with a backup sighting system that he MIGHT need?

Uh, wasbeeman - I didn't say anything about a scope weighing more than a pound...I seem to recall saying 9 or 10 ounces. In my part of the U.S. that is just a red hair more than about HALF a pound. As to scopes being more sturdy than they used to be, 10-4. Absolutely correct. But they are still nowhere near as sturdy as iron sights, which was the specific comparison I made.

So, if you want to carry a spare scope up the mountain with you, please do. I'll carry about 5 or 6 ounces less with my iron sights. And I already said I wouldn't personally choose an open express sight for a mountain rifle. A buckhorn isn't an express sight anyway, and you couldn't pay me enough to use a buckhorn sight on such a hunt. Or any other hunt, for that matter.

Lastly, I have no idea how much he practices with his scope, let alone what he would do with iron sights. But an iron peep sight is NOT that difficult to learn to use out to at least 300-400 yards.

Years of high dollar advertising by corporate scope manufacturers have taught most younger shooters that a scope is an absolute necessity, but as the old song goes, "it ain't necessarily so". In fact it isn't so at all.

Cheers....

I have express sights on all of my rifles, including the lightweight ones. I zero the sights for 200 yards and limit my shots to 225. I can hit an 8" plate at that distance easily, but it requires a lot more time on my part so I have to be careful to only take shots at calm, stationary game.

As Col. Cooper said and wrote about extensively: Scopes help you see better, not shoot better. If you doubt that, go to any NRA high power rifle match and watch guys shoot 5" and smaller groups at 600 yards with AR15's.

With the new high tech lens inserts in the rear peep, they allow you to see through the front sight, keep it in focus and keep the target in focus all at the same time.

You will not see it as clearly as through any quality rifle scope, but good enough to make a shot at 350 yards or closer.

I think everyone responding should have read the original posters question for us.

quote:

For those of you who have a mountain/light/sheep rifle, how many of you have iron sights on it? It sounds like a great idea for if my scope broke while in the mountains, but I want to see if it's a practical backup or just psychological.

Thanks for the input.

Seems to me that iron sight egos are getting bruised for no apparent reason.
I too have some iron sight rifles that I shoot pretty well but I have an ultra light mountain hunting rifle and as said before I wouldn't have irons added to it.
While on a Sheep hunt here in Colorado alone I took a pretty good fall and didn't really hurt myself just scrapes and bruises but try as i might I hit the barrel, stock and Leupold scope on a rock pretty hard. I hiked out to the trailhead 4+ miles from my sheep spot and shot the rifle.
Everything was perfect so the next morning I hiked back in and resumed my sheep hunt. If there had been a problem I would have used my backup rifle I keep in the truck.
No loss for me.
I would personnaly not add them to an ultra light rifle unless it makes you feel good then what the hell do it.
Iron sight guys please read the question before replying because your feelings got hurt.

I have two very useful scoped rifles with irons. The first is a 35 Whelen with a G&H side mount which makes it easily removed and returns to near Zero. It also has front ramp and bead. The rear sight is a Lyman peep with the mount permanent on the right side and the slide in my pocket, pack, camp or home as I choose. Actually most times now, it is mounted and the scope is home. Built in 1940-50 something and is terrific.
The second is a Mauser action 30-06 with a 24 inch barrel, front ramp, partridge front sight and an XS peep to mount on the Weaver mounts the scope sits on. Both return to zero going either way. I can't imagine a better set up than this one. Well I can but I can’t find a solid steel ramp and integral Partridge front sight so there is nearly zero chance of breaking it. I love my peeps and like noted by others, it just takes a bit longer to make the same shot at distance and a bit less close up.
dmw

Certain rifles just cry out for open sights... my Kimber MT 308 Win is at the Smith's right now getting an NECG Premier Rear and XS Sights front. I don't think they're a requirement, just another option for a rifle nut.

A highcountry rifle doesn't necessarily need open sights, but a couple extra ounces of backup doesn't hurt either. If it does, you have no business on a sheep mountain.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
I think everyone responding should have read the original posters question for us.

quote:

For those of you who have a mountain/light/sheep rifle, how many of you have iron sights on it? It sounds like a great idea for if my scope broke while in the mountains, but I want to see if it's a practical backup or just psychological.

Thanks for the input.

Seems to me that iron sight egos are getting bruised for no apparent reason.
I too have some iron sight rifles that I shoot pretty well but I have an ultra light mountain hunting rifle and as said before I wouldn't have irons added to it.
While on a Sheep hunt here in Colorado alone I took a pretty good fall and didn't really hurt myself just scrapes and bruises but try as i might I hit the barrel, stock and Leupold scope on a rock pretty hard. I hiked out to the trailhead 4+ miles from my sheep spot and shot the rifle.
Everything was perfect so the next morning I hiked back in and resumed my sheep hunt. If there had been a problem I would have used my backup rifle I keep in the truck.
No loss for me.
I would personnaly not add them to an ultra light rifle unless it makes you feel good then what the hell do it.
Iron sight guys please read the question before replying because your feelings got hurt.

The original poster's question was this:

'It sounds like a great idea for if my scope broke while in the mountains, but I want to see if it's a practical backup or just psychological."

And what we have been telling him is "Yes, it is entirely practical."

The example you gave above is exactly why it is practical. You needn't have made that hike back to the trailhead right after you fell.

I'f you'd had back-up irons you could have used them, then checked your scope later after a complete day's hunt on the hill.


As to your building a light-weight rifle and not wanting to put an extra three ounces on it...which takes the more energy? Carrying an extra three ounces on the hill, or walking an extra eight miles (four back to trailhead and then four back up the hill?

And what good would your rifle have been if the scope or its mount WAS moved or otherwise damaged by the fall? You would have had NO useable sights while you were still on the hill or hunting your way back to trailhead. And if you HAD seen a nice sheep on the way back to the trailhead? Then what? To me THAT'S being impractical.

Anyway, no one suggested he hunt without a scope as his first choice. Only that having the means to execute a "Plan B" with him at all times is very, very practical when "Plan A" fails.

quote:

Anyway, no one suggested he hunt without a scope as his first choice. Only that having the means to execute a "Plan B" with him at all times is very, very practical when "Plan A" fails.

The irons would be "plan c" while I head back to camp to get "plan B" (a second scope). Sheep and ibex hunts are too darn expensive not to bring a second scope. As you pointed out though, if the world record happens to be grazing in between me and my spare scope, might as well try it with irons.

Now, to really turn the pot, what's everyone's thoughts on a barrel band sling swivel?

I would sure agree with that set of plans, Sevens.

Plan A - Good sturdy scope and mounts on the rifle (probably with lever mount rings or some other way of detaching/attaching without tools)

Plan B - Another scope and rings (pre-sighted in) back at camp which fit on same base(s) without tools


Plan C - Iron sights either on the rifle or along with you in your pack or pocket, again attachable/detachable without tools.

THAT would work for me just fine. That way when old Ovis Poli The Mightiest Ever stood up at 80 yards or 380 yards, no matter when, I'd have at least something to plant one "You Are MINE" in the proper place with !



Now as to your barrel band swivel question, I have another question first...do you plan to use it just for carrying, or do you plan to try to use it as an aide to long range shooting?

I would prefer to just use it for a carry application if it is going to be on the barrel.

And for carry purposes, I don't like anything metallic showing or moving in addition to the barrel and sights...don't want to take the chance of ANY superfluous "clinks" occuring.

So, I like the kind which are made of leather-covered thin spring steel, which "pop" onto and off of the barrel. and fit much like the old English goodies they used as hand-guards in front of the forearm on SxS shotgun barrels to protect the forward hand from barrel heat when shooting hundreds of driven birds in a single day.

They actually should be slid onto the barrel from the muzzle rather than popped over it, so they can encircle more of the barrel and be more secure.

They can be made integral with the front of the sling itself (the front of the leather sling being used as the leather cover inside and out for the spring steel). The rest of the sling can be designed however one wants, but I prefer the butt end of mine made as just a loop which fits around the buttstock just behind the pistol grip.

I don't know of any commercial manufacturer of them now or in the past, but any competent small-volume custom holster or saddle maker can churn one out tuit suite.

Get an extra scope if you need to.

How long a shot have you taken with a scope and on what size animal?

Even an elk or stag at 280-300 yds doesn't look that big in a 10X scope. The only rifles I own that have iron sights are my .416 Rigby, my .375 H&H, .22 LRs and my lever action hog guns (.44s).

A few years ago when I "sighted in" (and I use that term loosely) my Marlin .44 at 100 yds with open sights, it seemed as if the front sight covered the entire target. And that was at 100 yds..................

Even with all the practice in the world, I wouldn't want to wound an animal (except a hog) because I couldn't place the bullet where I wanted. Covering the front of an animal just doesn't cut it for me. I know some here actually have "bagged" something other than paper at those distances, but that's just me.

But you need to make that decision yourself. They make life sized deer targets. Go get you one and look at it with iron sights at 250-300 yards.

It's not a question of "can" you make the shot, it's do you feel "comfortable," with pulling the trigger that counts.

As far as barrel slings goes, your pack is more important. A barrel sling is impractical. You'll need 2 hands in that terrain and not have to be fumbling with your rifle sliding off your shoulder, so there is zero advantage for a barrel sling and a negative if you need to use it as a shooting sling from a POI standpoint.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
I think everyone responding should have read the original posters question for us.

quote:

For those of you who have a mountain/light/sheep rifle, how many of you have iron sights on it? It sounds like a great idea for if my scope broke while in the mountains, but I want to see if it's a practical backup or just psychological.

Thanks for the input.

Seems to me that iron sight egos are getting bruised for no apparent reason.
I too have some iron sight rifles that I shoot pretty well but I have an ultra light mountain hunting rifle and as said before I wouldn't have irons added to it.
While on a Sheep hunt here in Colorado alone I took a pretty good fall and didn't really hurt myself just scrapes and bruises but try as i might I hit the barrel, stock and Leupold scope on a rock pretty hard. I hiked out to the trailhead 4+ miles from my sheep spot and shot the rifle.
Everything was perfect so the next morning I hiked back in and resumed my sheep hunt. If there had been a problem I would have used my backup rifle I keep in the truck.
No loss for me.
I would personnaly not add them to an ultra light rifle unless it makes you feel good then what the hell do it.
Iron sight guys please read the question before replying because your feelings got hurt.

The original poster's question was this:

'It sounds like a great idea for if my scope broke while in the mountains, but I want to see if it's a practical backup or just psychological."

And what we have been telling him is "Yes, it is entirely practical."

The example you gave above is exactly why it is practical. You needn't have made that hike back to the trailhead right after you fell.

I'f you'd had back-up irons you could have used them, then checked your scope later after a complete day's hunt on the hill.


As to your building a light-weight rifle and not wanting to put an extra three ounces on it...which takes the more energy? Carrying an extra three ounces on the hill, or walking an extra eight miles (four back to trailhead and then four back up the hill?

And what good would your rifle have been if the scope or its mount WAS moved or otherwise damaged by the fall? You would have had NO useable sights while you were still on the hill or hunting your way back to trailhead. And if you HAD seen a nice sheep on the way back to the trailhead? Then what? To me THAT'S being impractical.

Anyway, no one suggested he hunt without a scope as his first choice. Only that having the means to execute a "Plan B" with him at all times is very, very practical when "Plan A" fails.

Excellent post......dead nuts on the money.....and BTW.....a set of Williams irons is well under three Oz!...the only negative is they can cost as much as a scope to install.

Practically speaking, you can ask yourself how likely is it that your scope will be damaged during a hunt. The answer depends on what type of terrain you will be in and how far you will push your hiking skills during the hunt. For most people, I doubt the chances are 1:10000 that the scope will be damaged to the point of being knocked off center during a hunt. For some people the odds of damage may be higher, but I would bet the odds are lower for most people.

The weight of the iron sights may not be the primary negative in trying to solve a very low probability problem. Depending on the brand and gunsmith, iron sights might cost $250 to install. So you are carrying around a few more ounces on your gun, but your wallet is lighter even when you are not hunting. You also will need a quick-release type scope mount or you will need to bring along a tool during the hunt in case you need to remove the scope.

There are so many other things that are likely to go wrong on a hunt that worrying about about a scope being damaged is way down on the list for most hunters. Some people think their risk of a damaged scope is high and/or they don't mind the extra weight and cost. If you count yourself in that group, then go for it and have fun on your hunts.

quote:

I doubt the chances are 1:10000 that the scope will be damaged to the point of being knocked off center during a hunt.

Duckboat.....I don't disagree with you at all.....but for me the chance was a 1.0.....I slipped in the snow and fell backwards and the scope on my M-70 FWT hit a rock and dinged the rear bell enough to let the nitrogen fill escape......and while the innards weren't damaged at all the scope was worthless because it fogged so bad that I couldn't see through it. This is the only time in the roughly fifty years of hunting that I lost a scope during the hunt.....and BTW Bushnell repaired it free.....

Carrying a spare scope that is sighted in is a tad cumbersome and worthless sitting in camp when you need it now out in the field some distance away.

When I am on an elk hunt I find myself a long ways from home....paying non resident fees and outfitter fees and other expenses such as travel and motels.....no matter what it's not a cheap thing to do.....I find the insurance premium of irons to be at a minimum a bit comforting.....especially when I only get to do it every other year at the most!

BTW....here is what that M-70 FWT looks like today

quote:

Originally posted by duckboat:
Practically speaking, you can ask yourself how likely is it that your scope will be damaged during a hunt. The answer depends on what type of terrain you will be in and how far you will push your hiking skills during the hunt. For most people, I doubt the chances are 1:10000 that the scope will be damaged to the point of being knocked off center during a hunt. For some people the odds of damage may be higher, but I would bet the odds are lower for most people.

The weight of the iron sights may not be the primary negative in trying to solve a very low probability problem. Depending on the brand and gunsmith, iron sights might cost $250 to install. So you are carrying around a few more ounces on your gun, but your wallet is lighter even when you are not hunting. You also will need a quick-release type scope mount or you will need to bring along a tool during the hunt in case you need to remove the scope.

There are so many other things that are likely to go wrong on a hunt that worrying about about a scope being damaged is way down on the list for most hunters. Some people think their risk of a damaged scope is high and/or they don't mind the extra weight and cost. If you count yourself in that group, then go for it and have fun on your hunts.

Hate to spoil that post with facts, but holes for receiver sight mounting cost from $8 to $30 a hole, depending on who does the work. Takes two holes.

You don't need to carry a tool to remove the damaged scope if you use lever type QD rings, and even if you don't, many kinds of mount rings can be removed with a coin. You don't have to remove the scope base(s) to put on and use the irons.

As to the potential damage to the scope, the OP was asking about whether irons are a practical backup for a rifle on a sheep hunt. Most folks are speaking of wild mountain sheep when they ask that question, so I assumed (maybe incorrectly) he was too.

At least in Alberta, and B.C., and Oregon, and Arizona, where I used to live and now live, the mountains are very rocky where the sheep hang out. you slip and fall, and you may very well damage a scope. Murphy says "The first part of your rifle to hit terra firma will always be the scope, landing on a rock, with the weight of the rifle and maybe the hunter on top of it".

Anyway, the price of irons is likely about (or less than) $150, sights and mounting. Of course, like anything else, it CAN cost as much as you are willing to pay, but that's a personal option.

Whether the insurance provided is worth it or not, I can only say I insure my house against fire.

It costs me about $600 per year to do that. I still do it every year, even though I haven't had a house fire in over 45 years of owning a house.

Doesn't mean I am not going to insure my house though.

Nor would I take a primo sheep hunt without ensuring I had useable sights for the whole hunt. Even if it was unguided, sheep tags aren't available every year right where you want them these days. No sense screwing up what could be one's last sheep tag ever over a lousy $150. Penny-wise,Pound-foolish....ring a bell?

So you decide to lay out the facts by saying that installing iron sights would cost $150 instead of $250. Given that I said "depending on the brand and gunsmith", it doesn't seem you are really straightening out any facts. You also might have noticed that I did mention quick-release.

Your analogy with house insurance is odd. Without house insurance, a man and his family might be left without a place to live. Without iron sights, a guy might not be able to hunt until he got his scope repaired or replaced. That is quite different.

Penny-wise, pound foolish doesn't cleanly fit a decision not to spend $150 or $250 on an extremely low probability that doesn't have disasterous consequences even if it comes true. You're being too dramatic and seem to be searching too hard to find something to correct.

Whatever you say duckboat.

A house I can easily replace; all it takes is money. A hunt I may or may not be able to replace; it requires time which isn't available forever. Everyone is allowed their own priorities, I think.

You picked $250 for making your point on iron sights. I picked $150 for making mine. Seems fair enough to me.

So, if you don't want iron sights, they'll cost you nothing. Me, I find them practical, and I am willing to pay the price. Guess we'll both be happy.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
[QUOTE]

Carrying a spare scope that is sighted in is a tad cumbersome and worthless sitting in camp when you need it now out in the field some distance away.

Come on, guys. We're not talking about toting a saw log through the woods.
Even when I hunt up behind the house, I wear a day pack with a 1st aid kit, some paper towels, a couple of xl garbage bags, and a pbj and a bottle of water or pop.
When I out in the rough and remote, I still wear a day pack but it contains whatever stuff I'd need if I had to spend the night. So a spare scope wrapped in foam rubber isn't any deal breaker.
FWIW, back in the old days, before scopes were nitrogen filled, you'd leave them outside at night 'cause going from a warm cabin/tent into the cold would cause them to fog up.

Of course, what you folks that insist on irons need to do is fit your rifles with those see-thru mounts. That'd let everybody know you were ready.

I do not think my eye sight has 'ever' been good enough for open sights: shallow "v" and bead or blade.

However, nearly half of my rifles wear 'mechanical' peep / diopter type sights in addition to Swarovski & Kahles telsecopic sights.

OK, the peep sight is not, apparently I am told, technically an open sight. But according to my own definition, it is close enough.

My view on his topic is this. If I had spent $10,000 - $15,000 on a hunt of a lifetime, which I may only be able to repeat every four or five years etc, I would take all the precautions I could.

I would have a good quality 'scope mounted on the rifle with dependable detachable mounts;

I would have a zeroed back up scope in rings, ready to go with me (either in back pack or in the 'tent', depending upon the situation)

I would have a peep sight / diopter sight properly mounted / adjusted on my rifle and

I would practise dilligently with the peep sight.

It is a lot easier logistically for you gentlemen to get to Wyoming, Montana, Idaho etc than for me.

quote:

FWIW, back in the old days, before scopes were nitrogen filled,

That must have been a very long time ago.....even my Weaver K-6 that I bought used in 1962 was nitrogen filled.......

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

FWIW, back in the old days, before scopes were nitrogen filled,

That must have been a very long time ago.....even my Weaver K-6 that I bought used in 1962 was nitrogen filled.......

Weaver's big claim to fame that gave it the edge in scope sales was either constantly centered cross hairs or gas filled scopes that wouldn't fog. Yes Virginia, I have used scopes that as you adjusted the cross hairs they moved around in the scope. So that you could be using a scope whose cross hairs were off center. Obviously, I've been shooting before 1962

heavens.....and here I thought nitrogen filled scope was what we were talking about.....

Don't want to start another big argument here. Just out of curiosity, how many of these "nitrogen-filled" scopes Weaver built do you figure still had nitrogen filled tubes a year after being bought and mounted?

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Don't want to start another big argument here. Just out of curiosity, how many of these "nitrogen-filled" scopes Weaver built do you figure still had nitrogen filled tubes a year after being bought and mounted?

My K-6 still does.....and I hunt with it most every year....it's on a .257 Roberts!