The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles ANYBODY LOADING 8x60s?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| ANYBODY LOADING 8x60s? | Login/Join |
One of Us |
I have a Brno 22F in 8X60S,looking for a simple good load,170 grain bullets works for me.. I pray for mud on my boots the day I die... Go see the nights of Africa..... | ||
|
| One of Us |
404, if you wind up with a good load, please pass it on to me. I've had a JP Sauer 8x60 Mauser in the safe for several years. I had Griffin & Howe add scope mounts (it was already D&T'd) but I've never got around to firing it. I have cases and dies waiting. | |||
|
| one of us |
I use IMR 4350 for just about everything, including the 8x60S. I'll check my notes later, but for any given bullet weight, just cut the 8x57IS and 8mm-06 loads in the middle.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Exactly! I load for the 8x57IS and the 8mm 06, and the 8x60S goes right in the middle. Had a lovely Brno ZG47 in 8x60S some years ago, and i regret selling it... M | |||
|
one of us |
Last two loads I worked up with 185's used AA2230 or RL15. Max 8x57 loads makes for good starting loads. Very easy to load for.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
|
One of Us |
I hunt with a mauser FN chambered for this cartridge and I have been very lucky with Vectan SP7 and 50-52 grs for Speer 170 grs. Fast and accurate in my rifle. | |||
|
One of Us |
Only 8x60 I have owned was a Geyger Double and I loaded for it using IMR4350 in cases formed from 9.3x74r brass using RCBS dies. My best loads were 48grs IMR 4350 with 180gr Barnes X and 45grs of IMR 4064. Tried Barnes 180gr X,Hornady Interlock 170gr,Sierra Spitzer 175gr and 200gr Swift A-Frame. One of the few times I have ever used any bullet but Nosler Partitions. Was trying to find best load to regulate the Double with. The Barnes 180gr X's worked out best with groups well under 2". I'm sure you could use hotter loads in a bolt gun. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
|
| One of Us |
One thing that the Germans did was make BETTER smokeless powder than the Americans! To wit in 1908 the Mauser 98 was getting 2,990fps muzzle velocity with a 154 grain bullet in a 29" barrel. As the "man from Spain" says you might find find that European powders are BEST. Indeed I used in my 8x60S also Vectan SP7. So I think that this is a cartridge that works best with a DOUBLE BASE powder. Now in mine I used 196 grain bullets and took adavantage of the fact that I could seat the bullet "out" to full length. Hornady's otherwise excellent 195 grain spitzer has the cannelure in the wrong place! So better to use Speer's 200 grain that has no cannelure. My 8x60S (Belgian FN with 25" barrel) would shoot 150, 170 and 195 grain all into the same 3" group at 100 yards. It is a very under-rated calibre but, unfortunately, as finally Belgium two years ago and soon France drop "military calibre" bans on sporting rifles a calibre in decline! My advice? Get in a good stock of cases for what is a superb balanced calibre. | |||
|
One of Us |
Cases appear to be easily made from 30-06 brass. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
|
| one of us |
Just curious why many of the 8x60 owners are shooting 170 gr bullets. I would have thought that bullets starting with the 195-200 gr would be much more effective. Most of the 170 gr bullets are designed for rather mild 8x57 velocities. The 8x60 should add 100+ fps to anything the 8x57 will do.The better BC of the 200 gr bullets and the much better penetration would be far more effective. Anyone out there using 200 gr or heavier slugs?? | |||
|
| one of us |
I use the heavier slugs but most of the time they aren't required, at least not for what I shoot. The 180's and 185's will make two holes, hard to want more penetration than that. If I hunted bigger game I would use a heavier pill, although, the Rem 185 is pretty heavily contructed. Aslo, at the ranges I shoot at mostly, improved BC is meaningless. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ah, well... Here in UK in Scotland there is a minimum velocity requirement of 2,450 fps at the muzzle. So in short barrel 8x60S rifles that 200 grain bullet is too slow. Stupid law, really stupid, but there it is! Even a 600 Nitro Express is illegal for deer shooting in Scotland! Also, apart from Speer's offering, I've not found any US 200 grain 8mm bullet that does not have the cannelure in the WRONG PLACE. Or has too much parallel sided part too far forward that means it cannot be seated OUT of the case because it fouls on the start of the rifling. Why? Because it has a profile designed for 8mm Rem Mag. | |||
|
| One of Us |
My choice of the 170 gr bullets ,is twofold,, I have a large pile of the them and this rifle is iron site only,so my shots at our small whitetail are close and I need quick expansion. If and when I need the 200 NP,it goes in my 8X63.My current 8X57 also shoots the 170 Speer very well. I pray for mud on my boots the day I die... Go see the nights of Africa..... | |||
|
| new member |
Kurt C. (from this forum) loaded some 220 gr. Woodleighs over 50 gr. IMR 4350 for me. They shoot sub MOA. Just sayin. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Snowman: I use my 8x60 S for driven hunting, mainly for boars and deers. With 170-185 grs I get all the penetration I need and the knockdown (stopping effect)effect on the game, running with a high level of adrenaline, in our experience is better if we use with 170 grs bullets, instead of 200 grains. We have also used 200 grs bullets, but with worse results in this type of hunting. A german hunter I met, use this cartridge with 200 grs bullets, for plains game in africa (from Wildebeest to duiker), with excellent results. He uses this bullets because he does not know the size of the animal he is going to hunt, and for the biggest ones, 200 grs bullets warrantize enough penetration. Ignacio Colomer | |||
|
| one of us |
Nice post, thanks for the input. If I were shooting anything other than Whitetail and Hogs I would consider a different bullet but the Nosler 180 BT and Rem 185 work wonderfully. Whenever I get around to using the 8x60 on something bigger I will certainly try or consider a good 200. Accuracy is not the issue as all loads I have tried have been more than accurate enough. Here's my lowly 8x60 shown with another Mauser action I barreled in 8x60. At under 6.5 lbs it is very lively, you certainly notice the change from 180's to 200's at max velocity.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
|
| one of us |
6.5x57 & Mike & all. Thanks for the input. I was thinking the 8x60 was a lot more than just a deer rifle. RWS factory ammo shows a 187 gr in excess of 2800 fps with over 3200 ft/lbs of muzzle energy. I was thinking a lightweight 8x60 with 200 gr bullets @ approx 2800 fps would make quite a rifle in thick timber for elk and moose. The 200 gr partition is seldom a "wrong choice" for a bullet. The front section will mushroom quickly even at reduced velocities or on lighter game such as deer. With a BC of around .425 for the partition and .450 with the accubond(200 gr) they will shoot as flat as the 170 gr bullets with BC's of only .350. The 195 gr Hornady and 200 gr Speer bullets would also be good choices. I have used the 185 gr Rem bullet and they are quite tough and do well in full throttle 8x57 and 8mm06 loads. | |||
|
| one of us |
Snowman, you are right, the 8x60 IS a lot more than just a deer rifle. In fact, if you think about it, it is not too unlike the .338-06 which is no faint praise. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
|
| one of us |
My 8x60 is built on a 98 receiver. Shoots 200 gr Speers very accurately, and is certainly good for any game in NA. FWIW - dan "Intellectual truth is eternally one: moral or sentimental truth is a geographic and chronological accident that varies with the individual" R.F. Burton | |||
|
| One of Us |
Whoa! That seems too fast IMHO! Even with a double base powder. German military loading was a 196 grain bullet at, I believe, 2,3540fps after 1934. And that was MACHINE GUN "spec" but for logistics used by everyone, riflemen included. Now the Nazis weren't known for "soft" loadings so IMHO 2,800fps with a Nosler Partition with its LONGER bearing surface is maybe too, too much! | |||
|
| new member |
RWS shows a factory loading of 180 gr. @ 2740 fps (835m/s)if that helps. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hodgdon web data shows that 2800 + fps is possible out of the 338-06, with a 200gr bullet, but at well over 60,000 psi. I'm doubting that it's reasonable to expect 2800 fps out of the 8x60S with a 200gr bullet. 2700fps maybe. But what's wrong with that? One thing that may enhance the velocity potential of the 8x60S is the CIP chamber and throat, which most likely will allow the bullets to be seated out some, to not impinge into the case capacity. I'm enthusiatic about trying that cartridge. I have a barrel that is long chambered for the 8x57, and threaded for a LR Mauser '98, with a twist rate faster than 10". I think it's about 9.5" twist rate. It ought to be an easy conversion to the 8x60S, and better handle the long 220 gr bullets. I have dies and lots of brass too. I also have several Mauser actions to choose from. Part of the reason I haven't moved ahead with the 8x60S is because I have a 323 Hollis that's been in progress for several years, and it has required significant pushing to get it to move along toward finishing. There have been a few setbacks along the way, and I've been hesitant to move another 8mm project in que until the 323 is finished. Besides, velocity shouldn't be an issue at all with the magnum case. It should do 2800fps with a 200gr bullet with no pressure issues, than sooping up the 8x60S. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'd agree with that. In fact it is what appealed so much, to me, about the 8x60S (and the 6mm Remington) that with suitable profile bullets you can seat out and so use ALL of that case capacity. | |||
|
| one of us |
The last couple Nosler manuals show an 8x57 load of 52 grs of IMR 4350 behind a 200 gr bullet for 2698 fps. I would have thought the 8x60 would push a 200 gr bullet a little faster. Maybe the Nosler barrel was a very fast barrel?? Cartridges of The World list a factory 187 gr bullet at 2810fps & 3275 ft/lbs of energy. Cartridges of the World also list factory loads for the 8x64 shooting a 185 gr bullet @ 2890 fps & 3420 ft/lbs. So with the 8x57 pushing a 185-200 gr bullet @ 2700 and an 8x64 at almost 2900 fps the 8x60 is in the middle of that. There will be some barrels that are slower and not reach that. Anyone know what pressure some of the European cartridges are loaded to?? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hope this helps answer the above and give a comparison: Vectan tables list 30-6 as CIP Max 3500 BARS, the same as for 280 Remington and 270 Winchester as CIP Max 3700 BARS. 8x57JS is given as CIP Max 3400 BARS and 8x60S as CIP Max 3500 BARS...same as the 30-06 and co-incidentally same as 8x64S. A load on the table gives the 200 grain Nosler partition in the 8x64S at 2723fps having 3350 BARS/48575 PSI. I cannot find loads on that table for either 8x57JS or 8x60S with 196 or 200 grain bullets. OTOH 8x68S is stated CIP Max 3700 BARS. And the tables give a 196 grain bullet at 2920fps at 3700 BARS/53650 PSI. But...another set of tables give a higher Max BARS! Anyway both are here: http://www.balleurope.com/rech.../index.php?langue=en http://www.premiumorange.com/t...E/VECTAN/Vectan.html | |||
|
| one of us |
Interesting how some sources differ as much as they do. Reading through the 3rd Edition of Cartridges of the World there is some interesting information. In chapter Seven on page251 they have some info on the 8x60. There appears to have been 3 loadings of the 8x60 cartridge. Standard loads, magnum loads and a " Magnum-Bombe " load.However in the reloading data & factory ballistics chart they only reference3 factory loads,a 159 gr bullet@ 2820fps, a 187 gr@ 2810 and a 196 @ 2580. On page 359 of the same book there is RWS centre fire info.On page 366 they list 8x57 loads with 187 gr bullets@ 2690 and 196 s @ 2630fps.Both these loads are from 23 1/2 in barrels and both are listed @48380 psi breech pressure. They only list one 8x60 load,a 187 gr@ 2770fps from a 23 1/2 in barreland 49810psi breech pressure.They also list the 8x68 with a 187 gr bullet @ 3180 fps with 54070psi breech pressure from a 25 1/2 in barrel. It would seem that the Europeans got tired of the array of different loads for the 8x60 and settled on one 187 gr load. That magnum bombe load might be a little scarey in some of those M98 that large grooves cut into the receiver ring for mounting scopes. | |||
|
| One of Us |
As a side note,I had found a box of DWM ammo,once imported by Speer back the 60's I'm told.Interested fact is they will not chamber in my rifle,appears to be seated too long for my chamber? 12.7 grain bullet? I'm thinking of pulling them,but worried about neck splits... I pray for mud on my boots the day I die... Go see the nights of Africa..... | |||
|
| one of us |
12,7 grams is just 196 grains, and Brno usually have long throats for heavy bullets. I would be more concerned about the shoulder. Use a Sharpie to cover the shoulder and bullet area in black. When you try to chamber it the brass will show at the areas causing it to short chamber. | |||
|
| one of us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
After a little testing,this "factory bullet" is very straight sided.A little deeper seating worked well.All brass is headspacing well.Bolt closes well The box is maked Teilmantel-Rundkopf 12.7g My reloads are 52 gr/ RL15 with 170 Speer.I'm hoping this will shoot to the iron sights at 50 yards. I pray for mud on my boots the day I die... Go see the nights of Africa..... | |||
|
| one of us |
Well. Why not try the two Prvi Partizan factory loads first? -- "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." "Is the world less safe now than before you declared your Holy war? You bet!" (DUK asking Americans, 14th June 2004) | |||
|
| one of us |
Carcano I suspect those loads are not readily availible in North America.Could you share some information about them? Bullet weight?? Muzzle velocity etc?? Thanks | |||
|
| One of Us |
When loading for this cartridge, it is well to note that, as with the 8X57, two different bullet diameters were used, and sporting rifles with the .318" groove diameter continued to be produced in Germany up until 1939. I have a J.P. Sauer & Sohn drilling in 16/16/8X60R and an original Mauser Type S sporter in 8X60, both of which use the smaller diameter bullet. If a .323" diameter bullet will slide easily into the mouth of a fired case, then using bullets of this diameter should present no problems. | |||
|
One of Us |
I hunted a fellow shooting 170gr Sierra's in his 8mm magnum and it sure did some mass destuction. I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles ANYBODY LOADING 8x60s?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia