gents:

is there such a thing? I just weighed the factory m70 classic in 30 06 and it's darn near 8.5 lbs. w/o scope. W/scope it's 9.25. sure it settles down nicely but what should it weigh? isn't is about a pound and a half too heavy?

here is the question: what are the options to lighten it?

1. rebarrel to a slimmer contour? then a new stock is needed, right?

2. turn down the existing barrel? then the existing barrel channel is too big

(the current barrel is 24" and measures .600 at the muzzle.)

3. rebore to a bigger cartridge? e.g. 338-06?

Thanks.

How about some PT? The rifle's weight is fine.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
gents:

is there such a thing? I just weighed the factory m70 classic in 30 06 and it's darn near 8.5 lbs. w/o scope. W/scope it's 9.25. sure it settles down nicely but what should it weigh? isn't is about a pound and a half too heavy?

here is the question: what are the options to lighten it?

1. rebarrel to a slimmer contour? then a new stock is needed, right? not necessarily.....the old channel can be filled with glass bedding.....you'll still see it as the color never matches perfectly but it won't be highly noticeable.....except maybe to you!

2. turn down the existing barrel? then the existing barrel channel is too big This is a very expensive option for a weight reduction project

(the current barrel is 24" and measures .600 at the muzzle.)

3. rebore to a bigger cartridge? e.g. 338-06? This removes very little weight.....not a good method of weight reduction.

Thanks.

Your biggest reduction of weight is to add a Douglas featherweight barrel at 22"....they actually shoot fine and might cut a pound....maybe a bit less.

One can remove wood under the forend and the buttstock but a good job of this will remove less than 4 ounces.....

Look at the scope bases and rings for weight reduction...also the recoil pad can be heavy and can be skeletonized.....

I like the Leupold ultralight scope 3-9 X 33 as it's a half pound and very bright and light....

Take a look at the carry strap....(sling)....these can be replaced with lighter versions.....when you're all done the weight can be reduced a couple pounds but you may shell out a bit and may have items that are not to your liking.....weaver style bases and rings for example...

If PT means phys therapy then the question wasn't answered although I appreciate the concern for my physical well being...

I ask because there seems to be a lot of metal surrounding the bore.

thanks, vapo.

First thing I would do is to remove the stock and weigh it. Compare this weight to a McMillan Edge stock and if that weight savings is worth the price of the stock to you I would order one.
Going to a smaller contour barrel measuring about .560 at the muzzle might save you another 3-4 ounces.
Finally, look at replacing the scope with something lighter.

PT is a military term for "physical training" -- as in calisthenics, road-work.

Only rifles I've been remotely curious about what they weigh are a Ruger No. 1 in .458 Win. Mag, which runs 9.5 lbs w/o scope. And the M1 Garand, which is heavy, but I can't put a number on it.

My 30-06 (one of my favorites) is a Weatherby (Howa) Vanguard, synthetic w/ 3-9x 40mm Leupold. I have no idea what it weighs. It's not heavy.

If you're really set on a "lighter rifle" it'd be a whole lot easier and more fun to just go out and buy one.

You could flute the barrel and save 7-9 oz.($150) and/or order a mcmillian edge stock which would weigh around 23oz. with pad or put a fwt barrel on it and then stick it in an edge. My pre 64 fwt 06' in that edge, with talley 1 pcs mounts and a leupy VXII 3x9x40 weighs right at 7 1/4 lbs, which to me is just right.

Yep, that is on the heavy side. The M70 is no light wt. action, but I built a lt.wt. 280 on one. It weighs 7 1/4# ready to hunt in a slim wood stock, 23"ft.wt. bbl. no recoil pad, vxii 3-9compact. You can restock, change scope & mounts, but unless you rebarrel, you are not likely to shed much wt. maybe get it down to 8 1/2# ready to hunt. FWIW, I don't care how much you pt, heavy rifles just get heavier when you carry them up & down the mountain all day.

A wise rifleman told me once that he prefered to carry a light rifle but prefered to shoot a heavy one!

So....Is the carrying or is the shooting more important to you?

Originally posted by jsl3170:

quote:

Rebore to a bigger cartridge? e.g. 338-06?

Yea.

Perfect weight for 338-06.

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
I just weighed the factory M70 classic in 30-06, and it's darn near 8.5 lbs. w/o scope. W/scope it's 9.25....Isn't it about a pound and a half too heavy?

Here is the question: what are the options to lighten it?

Trade it for a Featherweight.

There are lots of options here.
1st, I would agree that 8LBS plus is to much for an 06.
I have a JC higgins, 06 that had been restocked with wood.
It was prety darn heavy.
I sent it to MPI stocks here in portland.
Its a dream carry rifle now. The MPI stock is extreamly light. It gives my old 06 a nice muzzle heavy feel, that takes a little getting used to. But It is easy to steady.
The Question is , How much do you want to spend.
Winchester 69 has a good point.
You could probably get 500 or more for your,s and buy one of the new featherweights for about 800.(Available in january)
The new Browning X-bolts are fairly light, and while a little to modern for my tastes, seem like a heck of a well designed rifle.
If Yo want to keep your Winchester and just lighten it up,
Go to Rifles ink. They do that all the time.
...tj3006

I'm sure you've thought of this, but if you reduce the weight of the rifle the recoil will go up.

jsl3170

I wasn't trying to be critical but practical. If a 9.5 lb rifle is tiring (some think so, not saying that is you) then they need to get into better physical condition. Zedo and particularly RaySendaro said/explained it best; "A wise rifleman told me once that he prefered to carry a light rifle but prefered to shoot a heavy one! So....Is the carrying or is the shooting more important to you?"

Currently I have 2 hunting '06s; one a custom 24" barreled rifle on a Husvarna action with B&C stock weighs 9.45 lbs loaded. The other is a M70 Classic Sporter with the composite Winchester XTR stock on it. Loaded it weighs right at 8.5 lbs. Both are easy to carry and when the shooting time comes they both hold steady and do not recoil me off target. I am fastly approaching 62 BTW. To me the shooting is what is important.

Larry Gibson

Thanks, Larry. My question came not from my worry about lugging it around, but rather from inspecting the factory barrel and seeing a lot of metal surrounding the bore. Just wondering if Winchester used a little too much barrel for the caliber.

It's probably easier to lose 2lbs off your belly than to lose 2lbs off your rifle. And the benefits will stay with when not hunting!

You can loose all the weight you want and when you get through, the 9.25# rifle will still weigh 9.25# and be a pain in the obammer to carry around.

9.25# is fine if all you are doing is sitting around eating doughnuts. But if you are moving on your own feet through a swamp, across sand or making elevation changes, the lighter weight will be a blessing when it comes time to slip into the Hasty Sling and shoot. Your heartbeat may actually be normal, and for sure less than when toting an Anchor around.

Visit the "Rifles Inc." site, give them a call and Lex can chop the weight on that M70 nearly in half. The only thing it takes is money. Or swap it in on a lighter M7 or Wby U-Lt. Lex can even lighten them a bit if you are so inclined.

If you know someone who has a M7 or Wby U-Lt, shoot it a couple of times from a Field Position, walk a mile or two with it in your hands(not slung over your shoulder) and shoot it from the same Field Position. You might or might not like the results.

Then do the same with the Anchor.

If the Anchor is an accurate rifle, I'd recommend leaving it alone and simply buying a lighter rifle. The cost will be less than having Rifles Inc. lighten one. It is nearly always a bad idea to take a chance on hosing-up an accurate rifle, even if it is an Anchor.

Best of luck to you.

I have been quite pleased with my old 700/Mtn. Rifle in -06. Very good accuracy, modest recoil, easy to carry all day. Maybe you could trade for one?

The weight of my four 30-06

Weatherby Vang. sub-moa 24" bbl sinth. stock
Without scope 7.6
With scope, bases & rings 8.6 (leup. 2.5-8 X 36 Quick R base & rings)
Fully loaded 9.1 (180 grain ammo)

Winch. mod. 70 SS classic 23 3/4" bbl. sinth. stock
Without scope 7.6
With scope, bases & rings 8.6 (leup. 3.5-10 X 40 Quick R base & rings)
Fully loaded 9.1 (180 grain ammo)

Winch. mod. 70 pre-64 featherweight 22" bbl. wood stock
Without scope 6.8
With scope, bases & rings 7.5 (leup. 2.5-8 X 36 Quick R. base & rings)
Fully loaded 8.0 (180 grain ammo)


Winch mod. 70 pre-64 24" bbl sinth. stock
Without scope 8.0
With scope, bases & rings 9.0 (leup. 3.5-10 X 40 Quick R base & ring)
Fully loaded 9.5 (180 grain ammo)

This last one has two african safaris.

LMCH

Presuming someone isn't physically disabled or suffering from some temporary injury the weight of a rifle isn't strictly relevant.

Personally I'd like to slap about half the people who've ever made a comment favoring one particular rifle over another due to some difference in weight... or perception of weight savings.

Then again I'm 6'4" and a few cheeseburgers short of 300lbs myself. Also I spend my weekdays lugging a 40lb toolbag over broken ground while scavenging truck parts from various local junkyards.
a 10-ish lb rifle and a my typical emergency supplies?
PLEASE!

Much ado about something that really doesn't matter.

Making a rifle lighter will cost you money
and make your gunsmith richer.

Trading one in on a lighter rifle will do the same thing Vs your local gun dealer.

And in the end you'll get a lighter rifle that probably doesn't balance as well or shoot as well

I've also read many posts about "oh you need a lighter rifle to lug up those hills in the rockies"

That's nice, but personally from growing up and living at 1500ft simply walking out to my truck to get a bag of groceries when visiting my brother in Casper, WY leaves me breathing fast and gives me the shakes for the first 4-5 days I'm there.

Frankly I find that a lighter rifle amplifies any shaking I do
weather from oxygen deprivation or excitement heavier tends to be more accurate.

I'll save weight elsewhere.

Like deleting those cheeseburgers from my diet before the hunt, it's generally cheaper to shave that 1.5lb off my fat ass than to shave it off my 9+lb 30-06 rifle

My 7mmMag tips the scales at just under 11lb with an empty
mag... load it up and it's just over.

that HEAVY 26" tube makes it varmint rifle stable when I'm all breathy and excited.

Make my rifle heavier. I'll buy a better padded strap to carry it with and my shoulder will never know the difference.


So what is the proper weight?

what ever you are comfortable carrying.

Even if you had a rifle that weighed 4lb it's still be too heavy at the end of a long day... it's NOT really the "weight"
as much as it is the "encoumberance"

The effort of hanging onto something that keeps wanting to fall off.

AD

quote:

Thanks, Larry. My question came not from my worry about lugging it around, but rather from inspecting the factory barrel and seeing a lot of metal surrounding the bore. Just wondering if Winchester used a little too much barrel for the caliber

You can be certain that Winchester used a safe amount of material.

Today's rifles are heavier than the rifles of 50 years ago. I have a J.C. Higggins M50, and the whole rifle is lighter, and the barrel and stock are thinner. And it kicks hard. Light rifles are very hard to shoot well, they are twitchy. (My match AR weighs 17 Pounds!. My match M1a's are around 14.)

50 years ago people walked. Now Bubba does not even have to get off his four wheeler to hunt. Guns have gotten heavier. It is not all bad. The barrels are stiffer; stiffer barrels are more accurate, all things even. You can shoot them a little more before they overheat. And they don't recoil as bad.

Military rifles have to withstand bayoneting, rapid fire, etc, and those tended to have heavier barrels than civilian rifles. But not any longer.

I have a few light rifles and I don't find them hard to shoot at all. And as far as being in shape, While I am not now beacuse my back is bad. I could toss a couple hundred LBS around on the bench press with little dificutl a few years back .
Still see no reason to carry unesisary weight.
But don't you think an awfull lot depends on the terain you hunt ?
That extra 2 lbs for the rifle and mabye 3 or 4 other pounds you might be able to shave from what ever else you lug around will make more and more difference the steeper the hill,s your climbing.
As far as the recoil issue, if an 06 kicks to much for you, shoot somthing lighter.
I have shot lots of 06s, some like an old interarms MK 10 had no pad at all, and unless I really loaded a stff load with a 180 grain bullet, recoil was never an issue.
I would say there is no apropriate weight for caliber , its more like apropriate rifle for the hunter and the hunt . I would love to have a New Ultra light Arms in.308.
Les than 5 LBS and capable of great acuracy.
I can see that mabye off hand shooting when winded after a climb it would be hard to steady.
Thats why , I walk very slow when hunting.
Huffing and puffing never helps shooting.
...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
I have been quite pleased with my old 700/Mtn. Rifle in -06. Very good accuracy, modest recoil, easy to carry all day. Maybe you could trade for one?

I'm pretty happy with my 30-06 700 SS Mtn. It's not as accurate (around 1.5 MOA) as my old standard .270, but then it weighs about 2 pounds less.


9.5 lbs? Wow, that's more than my .470 Capstick weighs...

I'm in the "get a lighter rifle rather than butchering the one you've got camp". I also agree that a few pounds of doughnuts off your ass is better than a few pounds off your rifle.

And I am curious as to why one would weight their rifle with and without the scope? Seems you ought to weight it with scope, carry strap(if you use one) and the well full of ammo.

I usually keep my carry strap in my day pack because slung over you shoulder is not a good place to have a rifle when you need it.

I agree with stillbeeman, why modify a classic rifle. You would have to change the stock if you lightened the barrel. It can be done but you will no longer have a collectible model 70. I believe the weight was around 8.25 pounds from the factory with no scope or rings/bases.

If the weight bothers you, sell it and take the money and but a featherweight or a remington mountain (6.5lbs) or a weatherby ultralightweight (5.5 lbs).

The lighter they get the harder they kick. The kick doesnt concern me as much as the carrying weight so I have mountain rifles and weatherby ULW also. I carry it a lot more than shoot them so...

Your best option otherwise is to just change the stock. These guys do nice work and save you at least a pound off the stock from the factory. They are not cheap however.
http://www.lonewolfriflestocks.com/hunting.html

Keep the rifle the way it is , reduce you loading and get a gun caddy. Problem solved unless you want to add a muzzle brake for sighting it in.

I'm a rather large person but as I grow older I hate recoil more and more. I guess if I went around collecting truck parts I'd see things a little differently! roger

My M 70 SS Classic in 30-06 weighs 8.25 exactly with a 4x Leupold and Leupold Dual Dovetails, unloaded and without a sling. It is a little heavy to carry in the hands all day (yes, I have done it) but I am very confident with it and it will shoot 3 180 partitions into less than an inch.
Regards,
Graham

Hot Core

Probably will astound most everyone here but we agree on something!

Larry Gibson

I put a Douglas No.1 on my .30/06 and found it difficult to shoot. Changed to a No.3. YMMV.

A couple of things to think about.

Are you sure it weighs 8.5 naked, that sounds a bit stout to me. But if it is for me then things would have to change no doubt.

About the changes keep in mind there is no perfect answer to this question. It's kind of like trying to tell someone what their perfect mate for life should be like.

I'd also allow that the answers will depend a bit on what people are like physically as well as how they go about there hunts. Point being to someone a bit stouter of stature then a rifle that is a bit heavier is of no bigga deal. Then there is also the difference of where we hunt. When I go back to Minnesota to hunt my travels don't take me far and even on the long hike days it is not even in the same league of what goes on when I hunt in what I call the "death zone" out here. Poing being, I'll deal with more weight on those easier hunts.

Dat said, to loose weight on this thing I'd first off change out the handle. If done right (and I'd go Edge) you'll loose in the range of 8-12 oz's right there.

I'd also add Talley's to it, they take off quite a bit of weight from the standard type of ring. As well, for a sling I'd use the Uncle Mikes Mtn sling, it weighs in at 3 oz or so I believe with the hardware.

I'd scope it keeping in mind weight loss. As in, I'd use a 4X Leo or a 2-7 or a 6x36 Leo on it. If I was using the rifle from time to time in the open country where shots could be out there a bit I'd go with the LT dotz as well.

I'd then mate it all together and see how it felt. It will be weight forward and that is how I like my rigs to be.

Lastly, if it felt just a tish too weight forward I'd abbreviate the tube to 21"-22" and see how it felt then.

4 me, I'd want the rig to be all up (meaning sling, rounds, scope etc) at no more than 7.5 lbs.

But that's just my way.

Good luck on your decision!

Mark D

You could trade it in on a Ruger Ultralite
I love mine,it`s a joy to carry all day.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdSpecsView?model=7976

Just to throw my 2 cents in. I've had a number of 30-06's through the years and for me at least I've settled on a M70 Classic featherweight. It's not too light, not too heavy. It's just right.

Sorry for the bad pun but carrying it in steep mountains the light weight is appreciated, but so is having enough weight and hang at the end of the barrel for accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
< but carrying it in steep mountains the light weight is appreciated, but so is having enough weight and hang at the end of the barrel for accuracy. >

That is the only thing I don't like about the 700 Mtn LSS.
It has a neutral feel to the balance. Great to carry, but the handling of it takes some getting used to.
Not sure that it would suit everyone in that regard.
Best of luck with your choice.