What do you think of the potential with this ammo? http://www.doubletapammo.com/p...1_48&products_id=182

Is it asking for trouble with the big bears, or perhaps for moose? Most people I talk with don't think much of the 300 WM as a real tool on the brown bears. Given choice, they would use a bigger bore, which is also my view in the past, but I'm wondering if this Woodleigh heavy changes the odds enough?

I recently acquired a 300 WM, and have never shot anything with it. Really I bought it for the donar action, but the cartridge is really popular, so I thought I might make it do. Heck, it might be accurate, and there is something to be said for a paid for barrel, already installed. There must be something good about it, since so many like to use it. So, I want to read what you think about this subject.

The rifle I recently bought has a really good set of iron sights which is unusual - fiber optic front - with a great ported hood, much like the NECG front sight, and that may be what it is. I hate to take them off as I usually do. Instead, I'm thinking of hauling it around in the summer without a scope, as a bear blaster just in case I bump into a grumpy one, and maybe putting a scope on it for the hunting season. But of course if I have to blast a bear, I do not want to be dissappointed.

KB

Assuming it will stabilise and be accurate, it should be an excellent bullet. AR opinion is generally sharply divided about heavy, slower bullets or the faster ones, but I am in the former camp.
As for its effectiveness on brown bears, I have no experience at all, but know that it will be deadly on Africa's larger plainsgame like zebra and wildebeest in thicker cover.

although I have the 338 mags etc... it strikes me that I would not feel underpowered in a situation like that, carrying a 300 Win with a 240 grain well made bullet....

as long as the rifle stabilizes the bullet...

that is a high sectional density and I am a firm believer in high sectional density meaning deep penetration...

never used a Woodleigh, but they have an excellent reputation....

test a few out into some deep thick hunk of wood...minus the big bears up your way, it will flatten anything instantly that runs loose on this continent...and I am sure it will put the instant skids on a big bear...

If you doubt it then by all means, tote a 416 into the back country...

That projectile was brought out as a minimalist proposition on water buffalo. It's suitable but not ideal and I doubt anyone would recommend it as a do anything load for heavy game. I think if you take a 30cal anything and find yourself in a tight situation, you'll be wishing for something bigger very quickly. For moose it'll be great, a friend uses the 240gr on our Sambar deer (elk sized) from a 30/06 and its his favourite projectile as ranges are generally short and the Woodleigh holds its mass well and expands wide whilst digging deep. Inadvertantly he's discovered his preference is heavy and slow over fast and light ... go figure?!
Cheers...
Con

I have loaded them up in my .30-338 and accuracies are .5"@100yds or better and have not shot either moose or grizz. If opportunity arises I would not hesitate at all irregardless of AR opinion being too long etc. I too have them loaded up for my .30-06 as well.

The velocities I have them at is 2569fps in my .30-338 if I am correct-impact velocities is recommended to not exceed 2400fps so.........

I am under the impression Woodleigh makes a very good bullets but so does......Nosler, a tried bullet for me.

I took my 91/2 ft. Brown Bear at Cold Bay Alaska with a .300 Winny using 200 grain Nosler Partitions at 2950 fps. I got a bang flop with the Bear standing up facing me at 90 yards. The only thing different restricted to the .300 Winny now is perhaps replace the partition with a 200 grain North Fork. If I were not restricted to the .300 I now would pack either my .340 Wby, .338 Lapua or .358 STA, the later preferrably. Good shooting.

I feel 300mags are best served with bonded 200gn cupcores, or lighter monometals.
Any bullet weight roughly around 240gn I would prefer to launch in monometal form,out of something like 358norma, 9,3x64B, 375ruger.
With monometals, SD is less important to performance than it used to be.
I have often come to prefer faster,shorter,more stable and lighter for calibre, copper bullets.

This is a caliber in which I prefer monometals.I'd go with a 180 gr projectile and a Barnes TSX.When I shot my last caribou,my father said,"you finally figure it out".

If you want to use the 300 Win Mag I'd use the 200gr Nosler Partition. It can shoot it at about 2800 FPS. Now the 240gr Woodleighs would go slower [more weight].

I used for many years Barnes Original 250 grs in my .300 FGC, which has a tad less capasity than the WinMag. It was a SUPER combination, with a velocity of 2500 fps I shot red deer at as far as 300 yards, and as close as 30 feet - all dropped very dead, and there was very little damaged meat. I loved my barnes originals, but after they discontinued I used Woodleights 220 grs with also very good results.
Next year I will use the new Woodleight 240 grs for sure.

I think the above posts recommending the 200 grain Nosler are excellent advice. The only thing better might be a 200 grain Swift A Frame.

I dunno about THAT bullet, but by the same token, the 220gr Partition has earned quite a following among hunters of large game. The penetration and knockdown power are second to none inasmuch as 30 cal bullets are concerned.

I wouldn't feel undergunned going after brownies with a 300 Win and the 220's by any means.

You're better off with a super tough 180 or 200gr. There is a such thing as too much of a good thing...and anything over 200's in a 30 cal is just that. Unless you're rifle was specifically built for the heavies, chances are your twist is all wrong. This can lead to accuracy problems for one, including bullet tumbling which is something I don't want to have to worry about while hunting. If you need more then 200gr, you need more then a .308 caliber rifle.

Super tough .308 bullet --- I was reading some of the comments on Midway, regarding the 200 gr Barnes TSX, and some guys said that bullet was not stabelized well at 30-06 speed.

I dunno - but it seems to me that somewhere down range - the 300 WM initial speed becomes 30-06 speed - thus unstable if the guys are correct, who reported use of the bullet on Midway.

Seems to me that 200 gr Barnes would be great if stablized.
KB

KB

I think I just resolved the issue - for my rifle in particular. I looked on the CZ web site and they show their 300 WM with a 1 in 12" twist.

The good thing is that I saw some factory ammo listed with 180 Barnes TSX bullets.

It will be fun to shoot and use the 300 WM rifle anyway, and besides I just bought a short barreled 9.3x62 on a Ruger action.

KB

Try the 200grain Lapua Naturalis, it's the most lethal bullet in 30 caliber bar none.

Much more terminal effect than a Barnes TSX of the same weight........or any bonded bullet

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Super tough .308 bullet --- I was reading some of the comments on Midway, regarding the 200 gr Barnes TSX, and some guys said that bullet was not stabelized well at 30-06 speed.

I dunno - but it seems to me that somewhere down range - the 300 WM initial speed becomes 30-06 speed - thus unstable if the guys are correct, who reported use of the bullet on Midway.

Seems to me that 200 gr Barnes would be great if stablized.
KB

KB

KB, At this time on Christmas day (11pm here in NZ) this may well be confused rambling but re stability & twist & downrange velocity, I'm fairly sure I've read in the past that while velocity decays with distance as we all know, rotational speed does not, at least not to anything like the same extent. Thus the extra veocity of a 300 Mag vs a 30-06 imparts a faster rotational speed (ie more RPM) & this stays with the bullets throughout its range, hence stabilty should not degrade any. I think.
Steve

Very interesting, Shinzo.

Also very interesting, suddenly, and previously overlooked, is the 200 gr Lapua all copper Naturalis. They are expensive, but I would bet significant money that they are as advertised, or perhaps understated. It would be interesting to read a report of good test comparing it to the 200 gr Barnes.

As long as there is a 200gr partition, I just do not understand the need to go that heavy. The 300Win Mag with 200 grainers is a great combo.

If I'm hunting the big bears the rifle I want is the 9.3 X 62.....286 grains of badass at about 2,400 fps.....

If I'm using a .300 Magnum I can't imagine a better bullet than the 200 grain A-Frame

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
As long as there is a 200gr partition, I just do not understand the need to go that heavy. The 300Win Mag with 200 grainers is a great combo.

That's a common theme with partition aficionados, and they all fail to factor in the loss of most of the front of the bullet in the first few inches of penetration. So instantly, no longer are we dealing with the SD of a 200 gr buller, but closer to 165 gr solid. I shoot partitions, and like them, and they have always been accurate, but they were invented before the bonded bullets became availible, and the partitions were designed with a very soft front to ensure expansion. I really like them for a 35 Whelen or 358 Winchester, for example, because they will open up nicely at the lower speeds, but not blow off the front half of the bullet. At magnum velocity, they are like a bomb. Or more accurately, the front half acts like a varmint bullet and disintergrates, and the back half acts like a solid.

The only reason I can see to use the heavier partitions is to ensure that adequate weight is left for penetration on the big stuff. Instead, I choose the a-frame, or something that is going to end up with a closer percentage of the starting weight.

KB

I can't help but wonder if such a heavy bullet would stabelize in a 300 unlless you had a barrel with an unusual twist.
I can't argue against the quality of the 300 win mag as a cartridge.
To me its one of the best cartridges for the 1 rifle hunter.
But for a Guy like me who loves rifles and has a bunch , its sort of an inbeetween round.
But again its probably enough, but But I am not sure probably is the way to go for a close encounter with a brownie.
And by the way, you could allways remount those sights on a 338 win. A 358 Norma or a .375 ruger, and build it on the same action.
...tj3006

Kabluewy,I think the original source I read for this might have been Hatchers norebook, can't find mine just now unfortunately, this page on External Ballistics mentions it towards the bottom of the page. Lots of other interesting stuff in there too if you've the time or inclination.
Steve

I'd go with a 200gr. A-Frame for close in stuff. 180gr. Accubond or TSX for long range shooting.

I have a Ruger 300 Win Mag and have been working up a load for the 240 gn Woodleigh. The recommended velocity is 2400 fps and my first tests gave me about 2600 fps. These projectiles did stabilise in the Ruger and were very accurate, as accurate as my other load. I now have to reduce the charge to get the velocity down a bit. Will let you know what I can achieve. I think this will be a good Sambar load.

JWK