The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 300 WSM or 300 Win. Mag.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| 300 WSM or 300 Win. Mag. | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
I never thought I would say this, the 300 WSM is calling me. In researching my last rifle to buy in many years for 1 gun battery, the Howa 1500 action/barrel seems excellent. Unfortunately I live in Canada and the dealer's are putting up a fuss to ship across the border. They need special permits to ship without a stock. Apparently a barreled/action is more dangerous than a complete rifle!! So I figured I would just buy the Weatherby Vanguard and they offer it in 300 WSM. The more I read on the 300 WSM, the more I like it. The recoil is supposed to be less and it is supposed to be very accurate. Any thoughts on the 300 WSM? | ||
|
| One of Us |
I am not sure about the less recoil concept for if the bullet weight is equal to 300WinMag., velocity equal(or greater??,) rifle itself perhaps a bit lighter(shorter action area) don't believe the recoil would be any less would it?? Some say due to the "shorter powder train" that accuracy is enhanced, burns more effeciently??, etc., but for a sporting rifle, not match purposes, I don't think the short version will reduce groups by any margin worth worrying about. 300WinMag is a proven long range (or short range) round and usually available at most sporting goods stores and as I understand it for now the powder being used in the Win. Short Mags is not available to reloaders?? Volumes have been written comparing the two rounds, but personally I don't see any advantage to the short version. Granted I am old school and just tend to stay with things that work and the 300WinMag does work quite well. JMO Good luck either way you go. martin | |||
|
| One of Us |
I own and shoot both the 300 wsm, and 300 win mag. The chambering can be finicky. I had a kimber 8400 in 300 WSM that I had a heck of a time getting to shoot. I've had several 300 win mags and never had a problem getting them to shoot. My go to in the 300 WSM is a Winchester Supergrade. It is loaded with 150 gr. sierra spitzers. I have pulled the trigger on this rifle 28 times with a round in the chamber. Twice to check the zero after I bought it from a gunkrank friend. The other 26 times it has accounted for 1 shot kills,out to say 300 yds., on hogs, deer and turkey. It is my favorite of the WSM's with the 270 WSM not far behind. Unless you are extremely recoil sensitive, I don't think you'll have a problem with this chambering. I don't know if I would want to shoot a hundred rounds in a day off the bench, but in the field, I doubt you'll notice the recoil. GWB    | |||
|
One of Us |
I,ve used both the recoil is the same (as much as I can tell). The 300 WSM is an excellent accurate cal as is the 300 WM. Personally I've gone to the 300 WM now do to cheaper ammo and in Canada decreased availability of the WSM cal.s. I still shoot my 270 WSM and love it so I'm not off WSMs by any means. I have several friends who would not part with their 300 WSMs so at the end of the day if you like it get it. Either way you will not be disappointed in the performance. You might want to concider the Tikka in your rifle search. Price is right available in all the Cal.s mentioned and everyone I seen and used has been a shooter. Enjoy yourself getting a new rifle is always a great experience. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Six to one person, half-dozen to another. A Vanguard is just as good as a Howa being its only diffrences are cosmetic. Were you looking at the subMOA model? I like the upgraded stock on them! Reduced recoil, if its a real effect, goes out the window since WSM's are usually in lighter rifles anyways. Mine was more accurate then anyone could ask for on a hunting rifle with any factory ammo. With Win PP or FS, it was sub MOA all day. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
|
One of Us |
Ballistics are basically equal. I base that on looking at several loading manuals throwing out the high and the low for each bullet weight and looking at the average velocity. IIRC the difference was about 25 fps in favor of the win mag which tells me there is going to be more variance in individual rifles than the cartridges. Same thing with accuracy. There is likely to be more variance in individual rifles than anything related to the cartridges. The WSM burns less powder and is therefore a little more efficient. I also like short actions...so that is the way I would go... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| one of us |
I have shot the .300 Winny since 1973, taking everything from Brown Bear to Elk and dozens of Elk. My son claims it now and that is OK by me. Out of my group of 14 Elk hunters, eight shoot the Winny, all Model 70 Winchesters with the Boss system. They have the Boss settings down to a science and would amaze anyone with their accuracy. Getting any of these seasoned Elk hunters to change to anything else would take an earthquake of record preportions. They all shoot RL-22 and 180 grain Nosler Partitions-Northforks-Nosler Accubonds. I have another buddy that shoots the WSM, he is equally as accurate and equally as enamored with his rifle. I say ballistically there is no real difference to the average hunter, pick your poison. Good shooting. phurley | |||
|
| One of Us |
Isn't the H20 capacity basically identical anyways? I think it comes down to the rifle, not so much the caliber. There is no "special" powders or anything to get the WSM's to go fast like so many people always assumed. Cases of near equal capacity and pressure limits are always going to be nearly identical in performance. AR Corey, You wanted the Howa, but can't get one, I think going the Vanguard wsm route will make you just as happy! If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have them both. Pretty much agree w. milehighshooter. Rifle will be the determining factor IMHO. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have a Remington 700 CDL in 300 wsm. Recoil is not an issue, but I don't have a problem with recoil when shooting my 338 wm. Some people say it won't stand the test of time, but I have read about a lot of satisfied users. I only know of three companies currently offering brass Remington, Winchester & Norma. However if this caliber is a dying breed as some predict, then I don't know why Nosler would start to offer brass for it. They plan to have brass available some time in 2010. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I've laid in a pretty good supply, being about 300 pieces. With the number of rifles I own and at the rate I shoot, that should last me several lifetimes. GWB | |||
|
| One of Us |
Just an FYI....for all the people said the WSM won't last more then a few years, it turns 10 next month! Brass by Norma, Win, Rem, sometimes you can find Fed. Factory ammo available in all shapes and sizes from 20$ a box to 70$ (same as win mag, and hell 30-06 for that matter) Chambered by Browning, Winchester, Rem, Sako, Tika, Savage, Ruger (formerly) CZ (formerly, Howa, Weatherby Vanguard, Nosler, Kimber, Benelli...I'm sure I'm missing a few. Available in single shot, bolt action, lever action, semi auto. Man, what a flop lol If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
|
| One of Us |
And now that I'm thinking about it....lets compare it to some carts people thought were "better" because they were based on the 308 or 06... 280 Rem - some factory ammo available, brass from WIn or Rem only. What factory rifles? Browning offers it, never seen it. Ruger, Rem....anyone else? And how often do you see them? My LGS has ONE Ruger...on clearance. 260 Rem - do they even CHAMBER this anymore?? What, 2 or 3 factory loadings? 35 Whelen - Ruger offers it, I think, maybe Rem on special order. Ammo from maybe 2 sources? Brass only from Rem? 25-06 - There is ONE rifle at my LGS, 1. And its a Howa, reduced price. Ammo is spotty and a bit over priced IMO. Its a great round, and its "offered" by a few makers but I have only seen 1 new, and 1 used at my LGS and its a Gander Mountain so there is a LARGE selection. I'm NOT saying these aren't great carts by any stretch or notion, I'm just saying when people start gettin on about finding rifles, components, ammo....I have never once been to a place here in CO that sells guns/ammo, and does NOT carry at least 300 and 270 wsm rifles and ammo in several varieties. Could be a locality thing though, magnums reign supreme here. I was browsing guns at Gander today...and I really do think there are more magnums then standards on the shelf. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Lets see, I have the 280 in the AI. Built on a Sako AV action. Sweet shooter. 260 Rem in the Kimber Montana and Sako 75 Varmint Stainless Laminate Synthetic. 35 Whelen in a custom mauser. All of them shoot lights out and kill stuff dead if I do my part. I've laid in enough brass to last several lifetimes. I've also laid in a few thousand primers and numerous lbs. of my favorite powders and quite a few of my favorite bullets in several flavors. So no matter what the whim of the mfg'ers, I'm as happy as a pig in shit. GWB | |||
|
| One of Us |
No. Not the Sub-MOA. In Canada that is a $1000.00 rifle. I can buy the WSM blued at $550.00. Before I even shoot the gun : - Re-crown at gunsmith ($40.00) - Timney trigger ($120.00) - Epoxy fill forestock ($12.00) - Lap bolt lugs (free) - Sand out barrel channel clearance (free) - Acraglass Gel recoil lug/action bedding($25.00) - Tubbs Final Finish Firelapping(also buys brass to reload) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewP...productNumber=234736 The grand total is $787.00 and I have the barrel lapped, lugs lapped, barrel crowned, action bedded properly, an exceptional trigger and 20 once-fired brass ready to be neck sized. If the gun doesn't shoot 0.5 MOA after all that I would be very surprised based on all I have read the last month on the Howa/Vanguard rifle. If I like how the stock(Butler Creek) responds to epoxy work(take a Dremel, cut out everything then refill) then I will Bondo the forend tip and sand it round. Then paint it. I do not like the looks of the hooked forend tip on the Weatherby rifle's. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Last year the Tikka were $300.00 cheaper than they are now. I prefer the Howa/Vanguard. They are well engineered, a classic looking rifle, and cost very little to get them to shoot exceptional.(The majority of the cost being the trigger change) They are also heavier and I prefer more weight to shoot better and less recoil. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Nice rifles for sure, GW! I was just saying as far as factory fodder goes, thats all. I didn't know Kimber did the 260 Rem, but that seems like a GREAT combo! If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yea I guess new the Sub MOA isn't that much cheaper here. I think I saw one the other day for like 859$ at a big box store. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
|
| One of Us |
MHShooter, I almost never shoot factory fodder. Over the last 20 yrs or so I have developed certian loads for certain chamberings/rifles. I am not a hot rodder, I'll sacrifice velocity for accuracy most any day. Here are the 260's. I load 120 gr nosler ballistic tips for the montana and 130gr accubonds for the Sako.  I load 225 gr. ballistic tips for the whelen  GWB | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have one in a Win. M-70 Coyote with Blued barrel and action. Shoots very good. I consistantly get 1 &1/2" to 2" groups at 200 yards. Took my first deer with it this past November. Love the rifle and cartridge. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
|
| One of Us |
gorgeous whelen!!!! If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
|
one of us |
Why in the world would you send a gun to smith for $200 of work BEFORE you shoot it? Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
|
| One of Us |
No, misunderstanding. Gunsmith is only doing crown ($40.00) While firelapping I will be sighting in scope. After that use the brass. | |||
|
| one of us |
I have 2 300 win mags I shoot regularly, along with 4 in 300 WSM. Across the oehler chronograph, I get identical velocities in all 6. Yes, a given load is a little faster in one rifle than aother, and then the order switches with a slightly different load. No difference to speak of. So, from a killing / balllistics perspective, they are identical, with individual rifle variations greater than the difference between the cartridges. In general, my 300 Win mags are in heavier rifles (supergrade 70, and Kimber 8400) than the rifles in 300 WSM (Kimber MT, for example). The lighter weight means the 300 WSM's seem to kick maybe more than the win mags, but not much. Again, gun wieght is the main factor here. I find the WSM to be a bit more picky to load and shoot well. My particular Wim Mags are a dream to load and shoot, and digest about anything well. The only thing the WSM does for me is reduce rifle weight. On a sheep hunt this is a big deal. For general elk and deer hunting, I still prefer the Win Mag, although that is mostly an emotional response. To each his own. Bill | |||
|
| One of Us |
ar corey, What is the deal with the increasing cost on the Tikka's. I was looking the other day at one of my local rifle stores and he informed me he was unable to get any in lately and expects the cost to jump big. Kind of glad I picked up my 270 WSM when I did 3 years ago. I'm not sure were you live in Canada but Wlose Sale sports still has Tikkas last I checked and still in the price range. | |||
|
| One of Us |
i've owned both the wsm and standard win mag. they didn't kill elk any "deader" or any farther than my 30-06, so i sold em'. but the win mag (with 180gr bt's) would put a smack-down on whitetails 300 yds across a bean field. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I think Beretta made a profit decision to put the rifle out to the public a few years to gain market share. Then, increase profit and the popularity of the product will continue to sell it. A good buy when you got the 270 WSM. Unfortunately they are an $800.00 weapon now and perhaps more.
Wholesale is $780.00 on the basic Tupperware stock T3. As posted above, I can do a Howa/Vanguard for that price and the T3 is too light in a 300 mag. Perfect in a 270 WSM and has a good trigger already. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I currently hunt moose, elk, whitetail and mule deer. 95% of the shooting is less than 300 yards and the 30-06 is plenty. Nevertheless, I do get an occasional chance at a far range shot at mule deer in the southern Saskatchewan sand hills. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 300 WSM or 300 Win. Mag.
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia