I have only ever seen one .284, a Rem 788, which I understand were great rifles?

Anyway, its looks like a great cartridge. I mean if the .280 Rem was never super popular (I assume) and the .284 was around before the 7mm-08 as a commerial loading, what sank it? Was it beaten out by the .280?

Was is lack of decent rifles (other than the 788, it was available in a lever gun right? BLR?) or just not well accepted?

Cheers

The .284 was bought out IIRC in the Winchester M-88 lever gun.....and that rifle was never extremely popular as good as it was.

Later Savage chambered it in their M-99 and IIRC Winchester also stuck it in their M-100 autoloader.

All of these guns are no longer made.....the bolt action was king and levers were fading out fast.

In a bolt rifle the .284 couldn't compete with the 7mm Rem Mag and the .270 winchester wasn't about to loose ground to a "johnny-come-lately"
Besides.....at that time Winchester didn't offer a short action bolt rifle!!!

Interesting that all of it's offspring are more popular than the parent round.

Or in other words......a solution to a problem that didn't exist.

1. The rifles it was first chambered in.

2. The piss poor quality of the Winchester brass.

Now that we have access to some good brass and good match grade bullets it is gaining in popularity as a long range Benchrest cartridge.

Ray

The 270 Winchester & the 7mm Remington Mag

My oldest son has one in a Ruger M77 Flatbolt (very early Ruger) that was passed down to him from my dad who bought it new. It is a great cartridge and it is in a great rifle, too bad people didn't catch on earlier to the .284.
I've posted a thread in "favorite Loads" about the .284 with some participation.

I found the Winchester brass to be very good stuff. I still use it in my .30/284 and in my Swiss K-31.

You must recall, the 7 m/m Rem Mag came out just a very few years after the .284 did, and the .280 Rem was already out there too. Both the .280 and the .284 were not able to compete with the 7 m/m Mag.

At that particular time (late '50s, early '60s, Americans were not "into" metric calibers very deeply at all. Big sales of a big game rifle pretty much meant a .25, a .27, a .30 or maybe a .35 or .375 (and darned few of the .375's).

The 7 m/m Rem Mag was the cartridge that changed all that and it didn't come out in force until late 1962. Today folks tend to view metric chamberings as more sophisticated (and therefore better) than domestic chamberings. Back then, if it wasn't 106% American, the popular view was it couldn't be much good.

It was also still the "hey" day of the .30-06 which most hunters viewed as capable of everything the .284 could possibly do and maybe a little more. (That, of course, would change a great deal as the .308 took over with even more easily available military surplus brass.)

Also, like in recent days, there were a few years there where there seemed to be a new "caliber" every time you went to the store. Some of them had to die off. People who used rifles were more into hunting than paper target and theoretical ballistics status, and they didn't feel they needed all the newest stuff to show their prowess.

So, basically the cartridge never caught on because it wasn't viewed as needed, was sold partly as a metric bore size, and didn't do anything others couldn't, except in the short actioned lever guns which didn't really catch on then either in really potent cartridges (where are the M 88, Finnwolf, etc., these days?)

It is a really good cartridge, of course. Maybe one of these days it will have its day.

I have a Sako L579 with a Hart .284 Win barrel, Bansner stock,and Conetrol mounts / rings for sale. Send me a PM if interested

quote:

It was also still the "hey" day of the .30-06 which most hunters viewed as capable of everything the .284 could possibly do and maybe a little more. (That, of course, would change a great deal as the .308 took over with even more easily available military surplus brass.)

The 308 may be more popular because of military usage, but it is not the 1st choice as a 30 caliber game cartridge.


From Chuck Hawks........

The .30-06 Springfield is the best selling big game cartridge in the world and .30-06 ammo can be found anywhere ammunition is sold. Almost every hunting rifle with an action long enough to accommodate the cartridge is chambered for the .30-06. There can be no question about its killing power; it is in use around the world on a great variety of game and its record speaks for itself. With 150 grain spitzer bullets it is a good long range cartridge and with 180 grain bullets it is capable of cleanly harvesting CXP3 game. Because of its standard length case and long neck, the .30-06 can make efficient use of the heaviest (especially 220 grain) bullets, when necessary. The Alaska Game Department, for example, specifically recommends the .30-06/220 as the minimum load for brown bear.

Much the same can be said for the .308 Winchester. It is also a top selling cartridge that can be purchased wherever ammunition is sold. It is chambered in an even greater number of rifle models, as it is a short action cartridge that will cycle through some rifles that will not accept the longer .30-06 cartridge. It, too, is a worldwide cartridge that has proven itself everywhere big game is hunted. Performance is almost as good as the .30-06 with bullets up to and including 150 grains and acceptable with bullets weighing up to 180 grains. (The 7.65mm NATO was designed for 150 grain bullets.)

No hunter considering an all-around .30 caliber rifle can go wrong by choosing either the .30-06 or the .308, so it basically comes down to personal preference. For many years I was a fan of the .308, but I have finally come around to thinking that the extra versatility of the .30-06 with heavy bullets more justifies its 1/2" longer action.

Thanks,
I was simply interested as you hear so little about it (who chambers for it now?),of course the 6.5-.284 is popular in the bench and f-class scene.

I picked up a .284 round today it looked very 'modern' for its age!

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by kayaker:
I have only ever seen one .284, a Rem 788, which I understand were great rifles?

Anyway, its looks like a great cartridge. I mean if the .280 Rem was never super popular (I assume) and the .284 was around before the 7mm-08 as a commerial loading, what sank it? Was it beaten out by the .280?

Was is lack of decent rifles (other than the 788, it was available in a lever gun right? BLR?) or just not well accepted?

Cheers

I saw a nice Browning in .284 Winchester in a Connecticut rifle shop, should have bought it. Only hitch would have been keeping those rounds separated from the 6mm-284.

It's not a substitute for a 7mm Remington for range or power, but it's in the same ballpark with the 270 Winchester with a shorter powder column. Perhaps its virtues were incremental, and other cartridges offered step changes in performance.

A friend of mine used to cuss his .284 Winchester (Model 88?) on account of "that rebated fucking rim." He wasn't normally critical of his guns, so that observation was enough to turn me off to it.

The 284 was the first cartridge this outfit used http://www.newultralight.com/.

Main problem with the 284 is the short action and the bullet had to be seated so deep max oal was 2.800". I never put much into the rebate rim as Ruger,Browning and Forbes all made bolt action rifles in 284. Rem never did chamber a rifle for the 284.

I've seen Rem short action used before the Wyatt extended magazine and they notch the side of the action so the longer OAL for the 284 would eject.

My 6.5x284 is on a Win long action and it feed fine and I think the case was doomed from the start with Win 88 and 100 chamber rifles and the public had a hard time understanding the rebated rim.

There are some good reasons mentioned above, but I believe it is simpler - ammo cost.

If you look at the cost of 270Win 30-30, 308Win and 30-06 ammo setting on the shelves at your local Discount Stores, you will find that is what they normally run "On Sale" during Deer Season for $9/box. It appears to be a concern for the once a year Hunter/Shooter, who comprises the vast majority of the folks who buy the Licenses. When they look at the ammo cost and realize any of those cartridges will work, they go for the rifles that use $9/box cartridges rather than the $30/box (284Win).

Secondly, that nice steep Shoulder creates Feed Problems if the Firearm is not properly tuned. Even the old 300Sav will exhibit that problem as have the WSMs when new. Word spreads and the folks who buy the majority of Firearms don't want to have to fight their Firearm when a 30-06, etc. feeds so well.
-----

I've often thought the Firearms companies could sell all they could make of a "new" Firearm if they would Design some accurate $5/20 box ammo for it. Sales of the normal Cartridges at the top of the Sales list would plumet. No telling how many AK-47s were sold at $100 apiece because the ammo for them was (at one time) $39.99/case.

How many 17 Rimfires manufactures would be working around the clock to produce them - if - the ammo cost had been held down to normal 22LR levels?

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
[QUOTE] For many years I was a fan of the .308, but I have finally come around to thinking that the extra versatility of the .30-06 with heavy bullets more justifies its 1/2" longer action.

SAY AMEN. roger

It has already been pointed out that it is hard to develope much of a following for a new cartridge when ammo costs $30 box and you can get 270 & 30-06 on sale for $ 9. That was certainly a factor. In my mind the other major blow was the rifles it was chambered in. The 3 most common were the Win 88 & 100's and the Savage 99. Yes the 284 provided near 270/280/30-06 performance in a lever or auto but there are a lot more bolt actions used.Win Ruger & Browning all made a few and a some custom makers turned out some very nice bolt action 284 rifles. It seems to be a sucess a cartridge has to take off like the 7mm Rem did.Very few calibres are that sucessful. Rem hung on to the 280 and it has been recognized as a very good cartridge. No it hasn't put the 270 or 06 out of business and it never will. No calibre will ever do that. Had the284 been availible in a reasonably priced bolt action it would have maintained a following. Other calibres have received a similar fate.ie/ 358 win. I wish someone still made a handy short action bolt in 358. Even a Rem model 7.

quote:

what sank the 284 Win

7mm Remington Magnum.

Jack O'Connor's obvious dislike for the 284 sure didn't help it any. In these days of instant communications, many people forget that the Jack O'Connor's articles in Outdoor Life and his books had a significant influence on buying habits of the shooting public for over 30 years.

I've owned and shot dozens of rifles chambered in 284 and its offspring wildcats. The only rifles chambered in 284 that I did not like were the Winchester 88 and 100, because I found that some magazines worked fine in some rifles, but would not feed worth a darned in the next rifle.

IIRC, there were only handfull of rifles chambered at the factory for the 284. These included Browning A-Bolts and BLRs, Ruger 77s, Savage 99s, and the Winchester 88s and 100s.

Jeff

That's a good question. Seems like the .284's wildcat offspring have done more to keep the brass available than the original cartridge, which is an excellent one. In addition to being available in several different bolt actions, it was indeed made in the Model 88 Wi., the M 99 Savage, and the Model 100 Win semi-auto.

The .284 is an excellent cartridge, and deserves to be more popular than it ever got to be.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

It was also still the "hey" day of the .30-06 which most hunters viewed as capable of everything the .284 could possibly do and maybe a little more. (That, of course, would change a great deal as the .308 took over with even more easily available military surplus brass.)

The 308 may be more popular because of military usage, but it is not the 1st choice as a 30 caliber game cartridge.


From Chuck Hawks........

The .30-06 Springfield is the best selling big game cartridge in the world and .30-06 ammo can be found anywhere ammunition is sold. Almost every hunting rifle with an action long enough to accommodate the cartridge is chambered for the .30-06. There can be no question about its killing power; it is in use around the world on a great variety of game and its record speaks for itself. With 150 grain spitzer bullets it is a good long range cartridge and with 180 grain bullets it is capable of cleanly harvesting CXP3 game. Because of its standard length case and long neck, the .30-06 can make efficient use of the heaviest (especially 220 grain) bullets, when necessary. The Alaska Game Department, for example, specifically recommends the .30-06/220 as the minimum load for brown bear.

Much the same can be said for the .308 Winchester. It is also a top selling cartridge that can be purchased wherever ammunition is sold. It is chambered in an even greater number of rifle models , as it is a short action cartridge that will cycle through some rifles that will not accept the longer .30-06 cartridge.

This last paragraph is the point I was making as to why the .308 was instrumental in the death of the .284 Winchester...i.e. among the short action cartridges, the .308 was available as military surplus components and ammo.

I certainly agree the '06 is a superior hunting cartridge, but that is not relevant to the point being made, as the '06 was not and is not a short-action cartridge.

It may be useful to also add, as I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere in this thread, that the .284 was very seldom used in factory or military target rifles, while the .308 was very commonly used (for a wide variety of reasons). That didn't help the .284's chances either.

Another factor to consider is the performance of 284 150 grain factory loads when compared to the much less expensive and easier to find 308 150 grain factory loads. If you go out to www.winchester.com, you can compare the velocities of the 284 150 grain and 308 150 grain Winchester/Olin factory loads. If you go out there and look, you'll see how alike the velocity numbers are.

Factory chambered rifles in 284 have never been common anywhere that I've lived, while rifles chambered in 308 are as common as dirt throughout most of the U.S. I can buy a new Stevens 200 in 308 for $250+/- wholesale, while the least expensive way to get into a new 284 would be to rechamber a Stevens 200 in 7mm-08. But even if I could get into a new (rechambered 7mm-08) 284 for under $350, why would a want to?

Jeff

The 284 was never available in the 788.
The 284 was and early attempt at a short action round with 30-06 ballistics. It was mainly intended to sell Model 88 and Model 100 Winchesters which were not popular compared to bolt guns.

The model 88 and 100 were crappy rifles with cheap stocks that were prone to breaking. That coupled with the already mentioned magazine problem didn't help the 284. Not even the mighty Savage 99 would have helped the 284 as the lever action days were over by the time it had arrived. It was a good cartridge that came too late.

Long bullets with a gradual ogive are a problem in rifles limited to a 2.8" COAL.

Because we all live on a different planet, is why it failed, it was and is a great cartridge when applied to the application that is was designed for....

The downfall of the .284 came from its rebated rim that made feeding in bolt guns a bit difficult, the short fat case would not accept heavy bullets as they protruding into the powder space to much, it was designed for lever and auto rifles, and it could not compete with the .280 for instance that could use the heavy bullets..

It was and is a great round for the Sav. 99, and Win. 88 and 100 that pretty much fell from grace for whatever reason and the .308 pretty much dominated that field anyway...

The gun writters with their jewels of misplaced piss ignorant wisdom and misunderstanding of what it was designed for sure didn't help it much..

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
The model 88 and 100 were crappy rifles with cheap stocks that were prone to breaking. That coupled with the already mentioned magazine problem didn't help the 284. Not even the mighty Savage 99 would have helped the 284 as the lever action days were over by the time it had arrived. It was a good cartridge that came too late.

Right on!!! Limited application at best and really no new contrbution. Nice toy for some of us but that was about it. roger