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Using 168 or 175 grn match bullets... and the first person who makes a post saying..."well, I use XYZ powder..." Has to go to the chalk board and write... "From now on, I will answer the f*cking question asked and no longer pontificate with my irrelevant opinion" Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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OK Mike, I'll risk your ire and say that BLC-2 is probably not the best powder for the 308 and 168 gr. I shot the 308 at 1000 yard Benchrest one season and my best loads were with Varget. 45 or 46 grains gave me about 2750 fps. But at that distance I found that the 168 SMK was not the best bullet. The 175 SMK and the 175 Berger VLD were much better. 45 grains Varget gave me 2680 fps and it shot great. Still supersonic at 1000 yards. The current military Match and Sniper cartridges use the 175 SMK. They found that the 168 SMK just didn't cut it. On the other hand, if you are only shooting the mid-ranges, the 168 is a good bullet. OK, do I need to go to the blackboard?? And it's Mary Ann. Not even a contest. Ray Arizona Mountains | |||
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Ray, No blackboard duty for you...thanks for the on point reply... I have modfied my post to include 175grn bullets based on your input. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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168 SMK , Winchester Brass, 46 gr. Varget ,210GM 168 Berger, Lapua Brass, 45.5 Varget,210GM 168 Hornady Moly , Remington Brass 42gr. BenchMark, BR-2 ooops where's the chalk-- DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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Another vote for Lapua Brass, 168 Berger(not VLD), 45.5 g Varget and Fed 210 M | |||
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Dang, doesn't anyone use anything other than Varget these days? Looks like I'm gonna have to try me some. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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ALF what does that scribble say 46.6 or 46.0 I asked for an accurate load not one that keyholes the second shot... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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When Varget - or H-4821, etc - works better, why not use it? Unlike people, rifles have no likes for or against anything. What works, works and it couldn't care less which it is. | |||
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Watch it Ray! Mary Ann lives just over the mountain from me now, and we Idahoans are very protective of our wimmen!! Rich Buff Killer | |||
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I tested Varget in the 308. I believe it is capable of match accuracy over a broad band of charges. With 168’s, the most accurate load was with the highest charge. But it was only during ten round testing. I have not shot enough of this stuff during rifle matches to really figure out an optimum accuracy charge. I have shot a 175 SMK with 44.0 grains Varget, and it shot very well at 600 yards. Pre-64 M70 24 " Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist 168 Hornady Match 40.0 grs Varget wtd Lot 4295 Mixed LC WLR 3-Oct-05 OAL 2.8” T = 89° F Ave Vel = 2459 Std Dev = 16 ES = 56 Low = 2439 High = 2495 N = 10 168 Hornady Match 41.0 grs Varget wtd Lot 4295 Mixed LC WLR 3-Oct-05 OAL 2.8” T = 89° F Ave Vel = 2530 Std Dev = 14 ES = 39 Low = 2509 High = 2548 N = 10 ten ring accuracy MR-31 Target 168 Hornady Match 42.0 grs Varget wtd Lot 4295 Mixed LC WLR 3-Oct-05 OAL 2.8” T = 89° F Ave Vel = 2602 Std Dev = 20 ES = 65 High = 2633 Low = 2568 N = 10 X ring accuracy MR-31 Target 168 Sierra Match 43.0 grs Varget wtd Lot 4295 Mixed LC WLR 3-Oct-05 OAL 2.8” T = 89° F Ave Vel = 2660 Std Dev = 15 ES = 48 High = 2680 Low = 2632 N = 9 V. Good Accuracy easy extraction 168 Sierra Match 44.0 grs Varget wtd Lot 4295 Mixed LC WLR 3-Oct-05 OAL 2.8” T = 89° F Ave Vel = 2709 Std Dev = 14 ES = 45 High = 2735 Low = 2690 N = 10 excellent accuracy easy extraction 168 Hornady Match 45.0 grs Varget wtd Lot 4295 Mixed LC WLR 3-Oct-05 OAL 2.8” T = 89° F Ave Vel = 2757 Std Dev = 16 ES = 55 High = 2786 Low = 2731 N = 10 8 in one hole probably max load | |||
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Mike-hello from Big Sky country! Last year I worked with two different 308 tubes and both did very well with 46/Varg and the Sierra 165 HPBT. Both barrels had 20" tube and the BLC2 I tried in them worked ok but sounded funny as hell... Mark D | |||
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BLC-2, not for .308 that heavy. I use both BLC-2 and H335 for up to 150gr. I change to 4064 after that. | |||
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I generally use 44.5 grs. Varget with a 175 gr. Sierra MK bullet. Velocity is 2680 to 2700 ft/sec. from a 24 inch barrelled Winchester 70 Sharpshooter. NRA Life Member | |||
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Most consistent load for my Rem 700 .308 Model VSSF is 45 grains of late 1990's vintage Varget and the 155 Lapua Secnar, Lapua brass and CCi Br primers. Velocity is dead on 2800 ft/secs, Length is 2.870" and contact is 3.005" now. Barrel is above 4,000 round count. Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now! DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set. | |||
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Mike, sounding a little pissy these days. Anyways, 700P using SMK 175gr varget 46.0 gr. I didn't notice much difference between federal gm primers and winchester large rifle primers, so I use what I have on hand. Rilfe typically prints 1/2 MOA out to 300 yds as long as I don't drink to much caffeine. Haven't used BLC-2 so I can't comment. I would tell about other powders, but don't feel like the blackboard today. John | |||
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