The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Dissapointing 7mm Rem Mag VelocityGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
Today I chrono'd some loads for my new Steyr-Mannlicher Classic 7mm Rem Mag and am dissapointed with velocity I obtained. W-W cases, Fed 215, 65gr RL22, Sierra 150gr Spitzer Boattail #1913, OAL 3.24" gave me an average of just 2851fps. Barrel is 25.6" long and primers are fairly flattened with slight cratering. I know that Federal had a reputation years ago for softer primers. Is this true today? If so maybe I could increase the load to 67-68gr as there were no other signs of pressure. Or maybe a change of powder? I have some IMR 4831 that I could try. Any suggestions folks? | ||
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I appear to have posted this in the wrong forum. Could a moderator please move it to Reloading? Thank you  | |||
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It will work here as well as anywhere else. Just by memory I have heard the most complaint about actual velocities in the 7 Mag and 264 Winchester Mag. I have read enough about the 264 to understand that problem but I have never heard a good explanation of why 7 Mags can have such wide velocity variation among different guns. Maybe someone can chime in? | |||
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| one of us |
In my 7mm RM with 70 gr RL22 and 140 NP I get 3300 - settled on 69 gr at 3250 fps. 64.5 gr and a 175 Hornady SP I get 2930 fps - superbly accurate. 24" barrel Ruger 77. W-W cases and WLR or WLRM primers. I have data at home on 150 gr NBT's and RL 22 but can't remember the charge - velocity was 3200 plus. I have noticed that data in Nosler manual is slow in my rifle but Lyman manual is pretty close. | |||
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In my 26" Model 70 Federal 165gr's go 2900 fps | |||
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I was pretty dissapointed in my 7mm Rem Mag (26") when I first got my chronograph too.  63 gr. RL22, 160 gr. moly Partition Gold, 2750 fps avg.  Federal Premium 160 gr. Partitions chrony'd @ 2850 fps. It took me 70 grs. RL25 to get 2900 fps with the 160 gr. Speer BT. 65 gr. RL19 gave me 2800 fps...  I have moved on from my 7mm Rem Mag...  | |||
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69.5grs of RL-25, fed 215m, RP cases and 160gr partitions gives me 2950 in the following rifle. [url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=121924&c=544&z=1"]  [/url]It is consistantly accurate and good enough for anything in America short of big nasty bears......DJ | |||
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I know of some mean and nasty bears that have met their demise at the 7mm rem mags hands as well. Chuck | |||
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Spie, I get 2905fps with Ar2217 (H1000 to you) & the 160gn Woodleigh PP in my Ruger 1 with 26 inch barrel. That is just about spot on with the reloading manuals. Regards JohnT | |||
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| one of us |
See what I mean? Half the 7 Mag shooters who own a chronograph report bad velocity and half report good. On the other hand 98% of 7 Mag owners who don't own a chronograph will swear it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Bottom line: it gets the job done regardless of what the chronographs say. | |||
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I don't believe that the magnum cartridges are really at their best with the light bullets. I think you are better served to use a heavier bullet because they will provide proportionally better velocity with heavier bullets. I have been working recently with the 175 gr bullet in my 23" barrel 7mmRM, and get 2850 fps with IMR 4350. This is quite accurate, and I am playing around with some of the slightly slower powders. I find your data exceptionally slow; however, RL 22 is better suited for a heavier bullet. I'd suggest RL 19 or 4350 with the 150gr bullet. Ku-dude | |||
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Gentlemen, I have found that factory loads generally don't meet or exceed stated velocities from my 7mm RM (Ruger M77 MkII), but it's very easy to get handloads to meet the published velocities. The 7mm RM is a very easy cartridge to handload for. I have had no problem getting 3300 fps with 139/140 gr and 2950-3000 fps with 175 gr. Check out our website for more.. | |||
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It has never been much punkin in factory persuasion, but with handloads its a darn good gun, but O'Connor told me it was no better than a .270 and I believe that if you are of the O'connor School, believeing that with simular shot placement they kill about then same, most all the medium calibers kill about the same...I think that Jack had a point until you get to a 338 or 375, and then the difference isn't as much as some think...... | |||
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Maybe I'm being a little too cautious about pressure. Here's a pic of a fired case :-  What do you think? I notice most people are using RP cases, not the W-W ones I have. Maybe this is a factor? Also, same applied for Sierra bullets. Maybe I should try some 160gr Speer or Nosler? | |||
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Spie From what I can see on your pic , I wouldn't call that primer flattened much at all . Try a somewhat slower powder like RL 25 , or IMR 7828 , which was the powder Remington used in 7mag factory loads . Also , I don't believe it is recommended or neccesary to use the magnum primers with the Reloader series powders . | |||
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Hornady rates their 139gr load at 3150fps, in my Model 70 26" it does 3200fps. It is spectacular on whitetails! | |||
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Thats not much pressure at all on that pic. above. You are shooting a relatively mild charge for the setup mentioned. I would suggest moving up a few grains w/ that Reloder 22, you can take it all of the way to 70 grains w/ that weight bullet but, I wouldn't encourage you to go that high. If you have any second thoughts, you should stay below 68.5 grains. Good Luck! Reloader | |||
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W/ 68 grains of R22 in that barrel (150 grn bullet) you should get at least 3200 fps and maybe in the 3220-30 range. Good Luck! Reloader | |||
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All rifles, chronographs, powder lots etc. vary. Sierra shows 64.5 grs as max. at 3100 fps in their gun. As others say that primer does not look that flat. There is no reason why that Steyr does or does not have a barrel that's a tiny bit off of some exact 7mm inside diameter! There are many other variables as well. In general if that rifle has front locking lugs? I think it will take a little more powder. My last excursion into low velocities has been traced to a new chronograph screen holder and screens that seem to have been aiming off. | |||
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Checked my notes last night when I went home. 70 gr of RL22 and 150 NBT generated 3209 fps - but after measuring the case head dia I reduced to 69.5 gr for 3158 fps - and notes indicated it was one of the most accurate loads for this bullet. I agree, your primer does not appear to be all that flattened - but I am also a believer in case head expansion and just how hard it is to seat the primers on the third or fourth reload - if they go in with little resistance I discard the case and drop the load. The 7mm mag has got the case capacity - you just need to play around - don't use my numbers - but you should be able to generate similar velocity with your own worked up loads. | |||
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Spie, Just ran your load through Quickload. 65 grains RL-22 should yield 2853 FPS, @ 47984 PSI. So the calculated velocity is almost identical to your actual. Using the Quickload simulator you can carefully work up to 69 grains of the same powder for 3032 FPS @ 57826 PSI. Good luck, Bob | |||
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| <eldeguello> |
Back when I was using Norma N205, and later, Norma MRP, I was able to get 3070 FPS from the 175-grain Nosler Partition bullet from thw 26" barrel of a Ruger No. 1 B 7mm Rem. Mag. I made the mistake of thinking I could get similar performance from RE 22 with the same load as I used to use with MRP, which was 66.5 grains. WRONG!! I got just over 2800 with RE 22. I had to switch to IMR 7828 to break 3000 FPS with present-day Nosler 175 grainers! And it took considrably more powder than what the Nosler book lists! (Nosler book velocities appear higher than what I get with their powder charges!) I would expect a drop in performance like this if the barrel had some throat erosion, but this one doesn't, having had less than 500 rounds through it since I bought it in 1969!  I have also found that it is easy to get over 2800 FPS with a 160-grain bullet from a 22" Ruger 7X57mm, so why bother using the Magnum, IF all you get is 7X57mm performance levels?? | ||
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Thanks for all your answers fellas - very informative  Right now I think there are several possibilities :- 1 - My Shooting Chrony Beta Chronograph is lying. Not sure how possible this is but just by way of comparison, here's a load I chrono'd the same day out of my Steyr-Mannlicher .243 - Lapua brass, Fed 210, 42.5gr RL22, Speer 100gr SP Boattail #1220, 2.644" OAL - 2719fps. Does that sound right? 2 - RL22 doesn't suit my gun. Maybe IMR 4831 or IMR 7828 might do better. 3 - I need to stoke up the load (working up carefully) to maybe 69 - 70gr of RL22. I estimate that may give up to 3050fps - better, but still not astounding. 4 - I need to change bullet type. I'm going to pick up some Speer 145gr Boattails and Nosler 160gr Partition's next week and give them a try. 5 - I have a "slow" barrel. Really hope it's not 5, as all the rest are fixable | |||
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Welcome to reality, cronographs do that to you. I think you will be able to find a good handload that gets you close to 3100fps in your rifle. If RL22 isn't it, try H4831sc or RL19 w/ the 140-150gr bullets. Also, your primers look fine, Federal has always had a rep. for being a bit soft. Good luck | |||
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djpaintles, what a gorgeous looking rifle you have. May I enquire what it is? | |||
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Spie==Sent you a private message on you're home page  | |||
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ThanKs Spie, My rifle is a Model 70 with 1pc bottom metal, that I slow rust blued and made a Claro Walnut stock for. I've been trying to learn how to make stocks.........DJ | |||
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djpaintles, I would not say your just "learnin'" to make stocks. From the look of your work, you "done learned" real well. Excellent work, thanks for sharing, Bob | |||
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| <eldeguello> |
Quote: Some of your points are quite valid! For example, bullet types. i have one load that gives 305 FPS with a 175-grain Nosler Partition, just over 2900 with the sierra 175 SPBT, and barely 2800 with the Remingtron 175-grain Corelokt! Brass, primers, case dimensions and powder charges are identical, from the same lot numbers! | ||
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I'm satisfied with the velocity I get from my 7mm Rem. I don't use RL22 cause it goes over the tested limits and isn't good for the barrel in hot loads. I have a chrongraph. | |||
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| <eldeguello> |
Quote: OK! What DO you use, then?? | ||
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Spie Your rifle is probably like mine and is fairly long in the throat. I can load 68 grains of RL22 behind a 160 Nosler for about 3050 fps, or 66gr RL22 with a 175 Nosler for 2901 fps. If you want disappointment, just shoot some 7 Mag factory loads, often slower than a .270 Win. with similar bullets. By the way, my loads use Winchester cases, and CCI 250 primers. Your loads are just anemic in pressure as well as velocity. | |||
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RL22 will work fine, your primers are quite round and your pressures are likely very low, as your velocity is as well. You should be able to load about 69-70 grains for 3100 fps or so. Just as a hint, in a lot of 7mm Rem rifles, the 160-175 gr. bullets shoot better and will still hit 3050 for the 160's, 2900 or so for a good safe 175 grain load. | |||
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Quote: Shoot Hornady factory loads and you will be very happy with the performance! They all meet or exceed published velocity in my 26" | |||
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I wish I could walk into a gun shop and choose from a wide selection of different bullets, but this is the UK where politicians penalise the innocent to gain votes. As a result our Firearms laws are plain stupid. Would you believe that all bullet heads are licensable just like loaded ammunition? Also we are only allowed to possess a limited quantity of ammunition and bullet heads. Stupid, but true. Anyway, with that in mind I have access to some Speer 145gr BTSP and some Sierra 160gr BTSP. I think I'll buy both and maybe some IMR7828 too. Then I'll experiment with some different loads ans see what happens. By the way, did anyone think my .243 load was about right or not? Quote: | |||
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I use H4831 and H1000 And I follow the reload manual | |||
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Just back from the range so I thought I'd post an update with some new load data. Just as a reminder here is my original load :- W-W cases, Fed 215, 65gr RL22, Sierra 150gr Spitzer Boattail #1913, OAL 3.24" - 2851fps Today I tried 3 new loads and using the same components (except powder where stated) and increased the OAL to 3.28". Here's the results :- 67gr RL22 - 2984fps 65gr IMR4831 - 2961fps 68gr IMR 7828 - 2908fps So 2 more grains of RL22 gave an additional 133fps, but the really good news is that all 3 new loads had so signs of excessive pressure and are industinguishable in that regard from the original 65gr RL22 load. Not only that but the standard deviation for a 3-shot group was just 7fps for the 67gr RL22 load and 12fps for the 68gr IMR7828 load. I now feel confident that I can increase these loads carefully and realise what I consider to be full 7mm Mag velocity of 3100fps+ with a 150gr bullet. I'm also picking up some Speer 160gr BTSP and Nosler 175gr Partitions next week and will report back with chrono data. I'm making progress, and feel much better about my new rifle now | |||
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Spie, As we talked about earlier, your barrel seems just alittle slow but, if the accuracy is there, it should be great. I see where a few reloaders have been taking the R22 all of the way to 70 grains w/ the 150s but, most of them are getting close to 3200 w/ 68 or more. You will probably be just fine w/ 69 grns if youare not having any pressure signs at 67. Good Luck! Reloader ps- How were the groups w/ the 3 powders you tested the other day? | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Dissapointing 7mm Rem Mag Velocity
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