My 18 year old daughter, who has lived in TX w/ my ex (no pun intended), moved back home with me after being gone for 12 years. During a query of what goals she has for herself, she announced several, of which one was to learn to hunt, with me. Made me all warm and comfy inside. I've been doing plenty of research the past week. The other day, we stopped by or local Cabelas and she got to handle several bolt actions to get a feel for what she liked and what fit. She's just inbetween full size and youth stock, being 5'6" tall, probably 125 lbs. I think I'll run with a full length stock and have it cut down to her size. I had been researching fiberglass stocks all this time and today she annouched she likes wood and stainless steel. "Ok!" Says I. I let her peruse the web looking at rifles and she likes the Rem 700 Mountain LSS and the Sako's. My budget won't afford a Sako. I've found a great deal with a time frame to obtain it running out. So as not to skew the data (answers) I hope to obtain from the members of this board, lets just say it's a 30 cal in which I currently already own everything necessary to reload for it. I plan on using the Hodgdon 60% rule in conjunction with H4895 (have about 12 lbs in stock) to allow her a chance to work up to a recoil tolerance which will allow her to shoot big game as large as elk.

My question is this.

What is the minimum size 30 cal bullet, and brand, you would use and at what minimum muzzle velocity to effectivly take a spike or cow elk to about 250 yds? This way I'll have a goal for her to aim for.

Thanks,

Alan

308 winchester with a 150 grain bullet at 2800 fps.

Alan

Baised on American game and African game that my wife and I have taken with a 308, as long as you have a quality bullet of 165 or 180gr and are getting factory 308 balistics,then She is good to go. If you are going to handload, the Nosler Partition is as good as any, and better than most.

Also they are not too $$$ or hard to find.

Since you are a reloader I would start her out with light loads and work up to her elk loads.

I have found over the years that Sierra bullets, and Nosler Ballistic Tips hit very close, sometimes in the same groups, as Nolser Partitions.

I'm with NE 450 on this one. My wife is about the same size, and she shoots a Win Model 70 in 308 and I started slow and we're now worked up to full charge of Varget with the 165gr Interbond.

Start slow, and with a good recoil pad, which I believe the Remmy has the R3 now which I like and you should be fine.

Another vote for the Partition. I'm in the process of getting my wife used to the 308 (she has only ever used the 5.56 before), started with the 130gr loads and worked up from there.
She now comfortably shoots the 165's, which handle even our biggest deer here in OZ.
I'd guess that a decent 165 load in either the 308 or 30-06 would do for what you have in mind, and not be too much for a young girl starting out.
Remembering that you can always back off the load a bit, and still get all the performance you need.
JMHO, best of luck.

quote:

What is the minimum size 30 cal bullet, and brand, you would use and at what minimum muzzle velocity to effectivly take a spike or cow elk to about 250 yds?

accubond 165 grains at 2,600 FPS

sighted at 200 yards it will have a "point blank range of 260 yards and will arrive at 250 yards with 1600 ft-lb energy

An old Colorado boy and WWII vet I knew use to pull the bullets from 06 mil. ammo and replace it with 150s from Speer.From "46" to the "70s" he got at least one elk a year. Probably got about 2800 fps.

I used 180gr. 30 caliber cup and cores at close to 2700 fps maybe a little over.`

With todays modern bullet technology it would not be surprising to see a well designed 125gr. 30 cal. bullet moving at 3200 fps. do the job nicely. roger

barnes 130, it is already being made...

The barnes 130 ttsx is already on the shelves as components and loaded ammo from Fed.

To keep with light recoil, maybe a very tough 150 or 165 would be in order. I know the calibers made in that particular rifle are limited...so I'm pretty sure what ya got there With this mystery caliber, you'll do fine with a tough 150 or 165. Fail Safe (they're around if you search) Barnes, TBBC, Accubonds...choices are plenty, choose the one that best fits your budget

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
...With todays modern bullet technology it would not be surprising to see a well designed 125gr. 30 cal. bullet moving at 3200 fps. do the job nicely. roger

Yes indeed...
.308win 130gn monometals = complete penetration at 320m(350yd) http://www.gsgroup.co.za/bgeer.html ...'nuf said I guess

I have used a .308 with 150 grain Nosler Partitions on several elk - meat hunting for cows.

My particular rifle won't shoot 165 grain or larger accurately, despite extensive reloading using a wide range of powders.

I loaded Varget to achieve book value of 2,800 fps and was blissfully ignorant until I chronographed them - found them to be barely breaking 2,600 fps.

The elk didn't seem to notice.

For my daughter it was my Browning Micro-Medallion in 308 with 150 Partitions.

I vote for those 130 grain TSX's. They won't come apart and you can get some good velocity from them.

I know you asked about .30 calibre, but you might consider a 7mm-08. I bought mine for mule deer a few years ago and my son has since taken two elk with it using 140 grain Partitions. Mine's a Savage Sierra carbine with 20" barrel, light and handy, and not much more recoil than a .243. Just food for thought.

quote:

but you might consider a 7mm-08. I bought mine for mule deer a few years ago and my son has since taken two elk with it using 140 grain Partitions

My wife is 5'4" and has a shortened stock to fit her. She uses a 7x57 140 accubonds for everything including Elk and Oryx last year in Namibia. Never had an issue.

Based on a 16 yr old 'forgetting' his ammo at home after being asked did he have it packed a dozen times... we were put in a position with him that we either had to hunt with the ammo that was left in the bottom of his pack, that I had load for him when he was 12... or just go home...

this was on an Elk hunt out of Gardner Montana, to the north side of Yellowstone Park.

The rifle was a Howa 30/06... and the load was 30 grains of IMR 4198, and the bullet was a 165 grain Nosler Ballistic tip.. MV was 2200 fps.. made to duplicate the 30/30, when the kids was hunting antelope back when he was 12... the rifle was still zeroed to take the load.. adjusted the scope so that it would 3.5 inches high at 100 yds.

Running broadside at about 175 yds in front of us, after being in the field about 45 minutes was a string of about a dozen cow elk, that had been pushed in our direction by another batch of hunters...

The 4th one in the herd was about 3 times the size of the first 3.. So shot that one behind the shoulder... it kept on going like nothing had happened.. for about 50 to 60 yds... then it collapsed while on a dead run with the rest...

Upon field dressing it, the results were as follows:

entrance hole behind right shoulder..

punched hole in right lung about size of a dime..

came out of right lung about half the size of my fist..

cut espophagus in half...

punched hole about 1.5 times my fist going into left lung...

exited lower left lung and turned the lower left lung and the upper half of the liver into what looked like a bowl of spaghetti...

bullet was recovered bulged under the hide on the left side...

With the damage, I waa surprised elk ran as far as she did...

When we took the elk to the check out station, based on its size, the Montana F & W guys wanted to weigh it and take a tooth sample to determine its age...

the Elk hung at 406 lbs, the biologist indicated its weight on the hoof was about 650 lbs...

the extracted tooth indicated it was 11 yrs old....


you have guys who tell you that a ballistic tip will not kill an elk, and not at that low of velocity...

then many times you will have the same guys tell you that a ballistic tip is a great choice for a 300 Win or Weatherby, if you are shooting elk at 400 yds... because it is accurate and will put them down right there...

so after they criticize the load I just mentioned.. I keep my mouth shut, and then quietly think again... what kind of velocity do you think a ballistic tip is doing at 400 yds, out of a 300 Mag? the same velocity essentially that the 30/06 load at 30/30 velocity was doing at 200 yds...

but you can learn not to argue a point with folks who you will never convince....but a ballistic tip in the MV neighborhood of 2200 to 2400 fps while do some good things out to 250 yds...

you don't need high velocity or a big bullet to down an elk.. you just need a bullet that is going to perform in the velocity range that you are shooting it...

or if you think you need more punch.. see if she can shoot factory load, 220 grain RN's out of an 06...

believe me, those will penetrate just fine on ANY elk that ever walked at those distances...
and has a MV of 2400 fps by the way...

cheers and good luck...
( and congrats on the daughter, 'coming home' )
seafire

A lot of elk have been taken with the 30-30. The published mv for 150 grain bullets in the 30-30 is 2390 fps, but actual velocity is likely to be nearer to 2300 fps or even lower.

In a bolt action rifle you can use spitzer bullets, such as the 150 gr. Hornady. If you start that one out at 2300 fps, it will still be moving at about 1864 fps at 200 yards and have about 1157 ft. lbs. of energy. I think that would still be more than adequate for an elk if the shot were well placed.

So, load a 150 gr spitzer bullet to reach 2300 feet per second muzzle velocity, and you will have a load adequate for elk at reasonable distances, out to at least 200 yards and possibly more.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
... what kind of velocity do you think a ballistic tip is doing at 400 yds, out of a 300 Mag? the same velocity essentially that the 30/06 load at 30/30 velocity was doing at 200 yds...
....

Im sure some here are curious to see what ballistic tables you rely on Seafire!
I would put a 165bt(2200mv) at about 1900fps/200yds,
& I would put a 165bt 300mag(3300mv) at about 2500fps/400yd.

That's a fair question there Trax...

Feel free to take a look at ballistic tables in the back of Sierra, Nosler or Hornady manuals...

that will tell you all you need to know, at what some of velocity you can expect a bullet from a 300 Mag to be doing at 400 yds...

Seafire,
If your truelly convinced .30cal 165bt-2200mv has same vel. at 200yd that 165bt-3300mv has at 400yds,
then all a guy has to do is crank his 308win/165bt from low 2200mv to high 2700mv and he will magically match the 300mag for velocity at 400yd, ......wow! is it really that easy??
Where does one buy an Obama/McCain "smoke & mirrors" type ballistic calculator?

GSSP, build her a '06 AI like yours and load it down a bit, if needed.

Hey, AIU, that is a definate possibility. That way, same brass and dies along with all that load data you've sent me.

By the way, greetings from Nome!