As far as shooting on a known distance range I have placed in the top 30 during the President's Rifle Match at Camp Perry, and am an NRA High Master, etc.

In the field I feel I am competent and have never lost an animal or had a horrendously wounded animal on my hands. Seven of the last eight big game animals I have killed were all one shot kills. Having said that I am not always entirely happy with my shot placement on game animals and would like to become a better shooter in the field. I plan to attend the General Rifle 270 course at Gunsite in the next year and expect to get a lot out of it. I have attended three other Gunsite classes and all were huge learning experiences.

Forrest

If you ever hunt the Wisconsin or Illinois gun deer season you would hear all the folks with levers, pumps and autos bang away at the deer.
My assumption has always been they are poor shots or they would not take so many shots. That plus all the wounded deer we have shot over the years that we have assumed these other guys have shot at.

For that reason I would say I am better than average as most of my game falls with a single shot.

BigB

I am average at both shooting game and at the bench. I have my moments on both the good shots and bad.

I think a 3rd question might be in order.

How good you are at hunting. (Stalking, using cover, know tracks, trailing game, ect)

I'm really good at this.

ddj

Chisana,
Outstanding achievement reaching Distinguished/President's 100 and High Master.
I hold Master Rating in Highpower '97 and High Master in Long Range '99/prone-sling. Did Plama for few years and highest score I attained was 446/450 w/ about 50% X's. Had a good day!
For me anyway, shooting competetion for lots of years has been a definite help to me in hunting and placing my shots where they were supposed to go. As mentioned by others, no substitute for "rounds down range..." and spending time behind the gun.
Have not done the "F" class deal yet, may do some of it this coming season just to be able to shoot a rifle. Not real keen on using bags, bipods, rests, etc., but to each his own.

I am not much of a benchrest shooter . I am worse as a shotgun shooter - absolutely despise clay targets ...

But as a meat hunter I would say that I am at least average amongst the group of guys I hunt with - some days I am brilliant , others total shite.

Dont spend anywhere enough time at the range , job , family , blah , blah , blah - but I manage ok.My ten year old outshoots me with a .22RF most days tho.....

Off the bench I'm a little better than Joe Average. Some days I do real good and some days my shooting is average.
My best groups are with my AR15 and 75gr bullets followed by my M700 .270.

In the field is a different story. I've been shooting from oddball positions for years. I think I'm pretty good in that area.
Recently I took up shooting Practical Rifle matches at a local range. Ranges are from 0-300+ yards.
We shoot from prone, kneeling, offhand, moving and some shooting positions there are no names for. It's a great way to keep in practice and fun to boot.
I usually get beat by the ringers that shoot every month. But the practice shooting from non-standard positions is invaluable and I get better every month.

From the bench I bascially suck. If a rifle is capable of under .50 moa I could get it to group about .75 on a good day.

Handguns and offhand with irons I consider myself excellent.

Average on a good day, if it's not moving.

One year several of my friends and I put a horse camp into the wilderness near West Yellowstone, MT for the opening of Montana's general elk season. As daylight approached on opening morning it sounded like a war zone as other "hunters" fired multiple volleys at elk. About mid morning the forest was quiet. One of my friends was sitting overlooking a park with another hunter when they heard a single shot from the dark timber. The other hunter said to my friend "Now that old boy got himself an elk."

I did.

I go to the range every week of the year and shoot from 100 to 200 shells. Most at skeet and trap, but also some with rifle and pistol. I am comfortable shooting rifle, pistol, and shotgun.

I have a trophy case full of trap and skeet trophies and a 1000 sf trophy room with very little empty wall space, and have had to expand into my livingroom. Other than the African and Canadian trophies, all were taken on public land on DIY hunts.

Define a 'shooter" and I can tell you where I fall along the bell curve.

The once a year to sight in the deer rifle guy?

The avid hunter that only sights in during the season, but is good on game?

The guy at the club that talks and talks but never shoots?

The guy that shoot every week, but his idea of practice is shooting at coke cans at 10yds with a 10/22?

The guy that shoots up an old TV and the berm with his AK-47 and 500 rds and calls it a good day?

The guy that shoots benchrest and wins among his benchrest buddies?

The guy that goes to Camp Perry every year?

The guy that wins at Camp Perry every year?

quote:

Originally posted by Sevenxbjt:
I voted for better then average. Partly because I think I'm a fair shot at live game but mainly because I think you need to consider how many poor shots that hardly sight in their rifle, let alone practice with it are out there. I would be willing to guess that most of us here that take our sport so seriously to spend our time here "talking shop" are better shots then many of your "just opening weekend" hunters. For better or worse, those fellas are a huge portion of the hunting community.

This mirrors my experience. When there is a cease fire and I'm walking to switch targets, I look at those I'm passing and feel sorry for the deer.

More than once I've retrieved a target that was particularly good for me to save it and the load info for the file. The targets offered at the range, which I use when I'm running low or have forgoten my own, are center 8" circles with 1" dots at the perimeter at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 and 9:00. I'll shoot five groups per target. More than once I've had a "neighbor" compare my target to his and tell me how much better he is shooting because all of his rounds fell in a 6" circle surrounding the center X while mine a few of mine where in the center, the rest were all at the dots... Jeez, poor deer!

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by MFD:
Chisana,
Outstanding achievement reaching Distinguished/President's 100 and High Master.
I hold Master Rating in Highpower '97 and High Master in Long Range '99/prone-sling. Did Plama for few years and highest score I attained was 446/450 w/ about 50% X's. Had a good day!
For me anyway, shooting competetion for lots of years has been a definite help to me in hunting and placing my shots where they were supposed to go. As mentioned by others, no substitute for "rounds down range..." and spending time behind the gun.
Have not done the "F" class deal yet, may do some of it this coming season just to be able to shoot a rifle. Not real keen on using bags, bipods, rests, etc., but to each his own.

Thanks very much and your achievement of a Master rating and shooting a 446 with a Palma rifle is nothing to scoff at either.

When I was guiding I learned a fair amount about who could shoot and who could not. For those few that don't know; the "let's check your rifle to make sure it's still on" sight in ritual at the beginning of a hunt is not about the rifle, it's about the shooter. Is the guy afraid of his rifle? Can he hit anything? How safety concious is he around firearms? (My most important question.)

Trigger time is everything. Varmint hunters are great, guys from states with a variety of game and non-game animals to hunt year round, and take advantage of the opportunity, are generally excellent shots. Reloaders, generally very good shots since they are involved with their weapons from the ground up. On the down side, my experience with the owners of certain makes and calibers of rifle have been dismal, especailly when they use only factory ammo. Guys that "only shoot big game" are pretty sad in my experience as are those poor fellows that only go on guided hunts. (The exception here would be those that varmint hunt or are compeditive shooters but live somewhere that big game hunting is seriously limited.)

There is no such thing as bad on paper, good on game. I've seen bad on paper, stunningly lucky on game, but that only lasts for one or at most two shots. (Got a great story on that one, guy missed a standing mule deer buck at 300 yds. - 13 times - (worlds record idiot deer), next day perfect shot right behind the shoulder, 250 yds plus, yep the buck was running full out. Then goes through a box of shells trying to fill a doe tag...)

The only compeditive shooting readily available in my area is black powder target stuff. I gave it a try, not my thing. I like to practice with what I hunt with and a 12 pound rifle with iron sights is not my idea of a fun gun to drag uphill and through black timber for days on end.

I practice a fair amount and have killed several hundred head of big game over the years. I've had years I went one for one on up to 8 animals and I've had years when the ratio was closer to 3 to 1. Last year was 15 shots for 12 animals. But I'll cut myself some slack since the two elk didn't know the first shot killed them. (Rule number 1 on elk, if they're up, assume you missed and continue to place shots accordingly until you are out of ammo or the elk drops.)

Am I a better shot than some. Obviously, yes. Are there those who are better than I am? Again, obviously, yes. As my grandmother advised, "There will always be someone better at something than you are and you will always be better at something than someone else, but that's not the point dear, the point is, are you the best you can be?" The "best" is always yet to come if you continually apply yourself and strive for improvement.

"there's no such thing as bad on paper, good on game" AMEN!!!

There are a lot of shooters on this and other forums that claim to shoot 1/2 inch and below but I can never see any of the shooters at my range get that good. Why is that?

quote:

Originally posted by HunterMontana:
On the down side, my experience with the owners of certain makes and calibers of rifle have been dismal, especailly when they use only factory ammo.

Might'n those makes and calibers sound like Featherby?

A high school friend of mine who became a guide around Jackson hole said that he had learned to cringe when a customer would tell him that he was hunting with his "brand new Featherby."

I mostly shoot at the Public range located within a WMA. I've noticed another class of shooter, not previously mentioned. During hunting season, around 9:30 or 10 am the range begins to get busy as all those guys who missed a deer that morning come to the range to "see whether their rifle is off" cause they know they shot true. So not all of these guys just sight in the weekend before the season opens. Some of them sight in after every time they see a deer. Poor, poor, deer.

Wheatherby, humm, well I don't want to lump everyone that owns one together and dismiss their ability. There are some outstandingly successful hunters that have used nothing but Wheatherby products, factory ammo and all.

I can only speak from personal experience. That said, there is saying that if the client opens the gun case and you see a well used 270 or 30-06, things will go smoothly, if however, the weapon is a brand-new hell-fire magnum of any make prepare to do some tracking and see some piss-poor shooting. Before the "300 Whatever-Utra-Super-Mag and I can shoot better than anybody" types start name-calling me, remember, this is just my experience, yours might be different. The worst shots I've ever seen were packing a 338 Win or especially a 340 Wheatherby, next went to the various 300 mags. Again, take a deep breath if you shoot one of these well, I've got some friends that are pure death with theirs, but they are the exception in my experience.

Again, it's a matter of tirgger time. If you actually practice with a Wheatherby rifle, I'll bet your actually pretty good with it. Same goes for anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by ztreh:
There are a lot of shooters on this and other forums that claim to shoot 1/2 inch and below but I can never see any of the shooters at my range get that good. Why is that?

you're going to the wrong Range??? roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by ztreh:
There are a lot of shooters on this and other forums that claim to shoot 1/2 inch and below but I can never see any of the shooters at my range get that good. Why is that?

you're going to the wrong Range??? roger

I let a new guy go down range, to put up his targets, yesterday. Turns out he went and covered up my just shot .65" group instead of using one of the three other available boards. When I corrected him and we moved his target, he sure thought she was a tack driver. I told him I was just developing loads, but the gun was showing promise. This reminded me that most shooters/hunters don't expect to get much better than 2-3" groups at 100 yds.

quote:

Originally posted by ztreh:
There are a lot of shooters on this and other forums that claim to shoot 1/2 inch and below but I can never see any of the shooters at my range get that good. Why is that?

Darned if I know. If you come to our range any Saturday or Sunday of the year you will normally meet at least half a dozen, likely more, who can definitely shoot at least that well. Several of them prefer to do it with "hell for leather" loads too.

Most also do it with factory rifles, slightly modified perhaps for better trigger pull and to tune-up the bedding....together with very carefully built and tested handloads and good sighting equipment. Being only 150+ miles or so from the Leupold factory in Beaverton, you can guess which brand dominates here.

Most are not competitive shooters, but are dedicated varmint and big game hunters...both game and varmints are easily available almost year-round in this area, and the local "range-bums" shoot a LOT. (I call them that with a friendly, respectful smile....)

Others are dedicated wildcatters, so their rifles are sporting premium quality barrels, often self-chambered and fitted (with the careful pride of ownership), but Remingtons and Savages do just fine most of the time with their original barrels.

Sure, there are some much less skilled shooters on hand too, but they won't stay that way if they hang out long at our range. Both peers and rounds down range will lead them to better days.

Anyone who lives within driving distance is always welcome on the weekends. Range is at the SW corner of the Winchester Exit off of I-5, 5 miles north of Roseburg, Oregon.

Ha ha over 30% think they are in the top 25% something dosn't add up here.

I have done a lot of shooting in the past 40 years and am quite proud of the fact that I can now usually hit an 8 inch paper plate at 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Republic of Alberta:
Ha ha over 30% think they are in the top 25% something dosn't add up here.

They are probably considering themselves as in the top 25% of ALL shooters, not just of the shooters HERE. And they are probably right.

More interesting to me is that only 3% to 7% consider themselves below average (in the bottom 50%).

One thing that I have learned, especaly about internet forums, is that those who can, DO and those who can't, talk about it.


There is a lot of talk on gun boards. I would say that the wantabee dreamers outnumber the Do'ers by a large margin. The Do'ers tend to be hard core though.....

quote:

Originally posted by Republic of Alberta:
One thing that I have learned, especaly about internet forums, is that those who can, DO and those who can't, talk about it.


..

Like all generalizations that particular one may or may not be true depending on the circumstances. It is not a universal rule.

One of the nice things about this group of forums (fora?) hosted by Saeed is: If you check the actual acomplishments of many of the members here, you will find they truely are exceptional people...that is, something more in knowledge AND experience than just the common Joe Windbag. Many of these folks HAVE done it, are still doing it, AND are willing to share some of their knowledge gained which made that doing possible. If they are proud of their accomplishments at the same time, so what? Why shouldn't they be?

Laughing at them unkindly will not change that.

Since this is the internet I gave myself high marks.

I have low regard for most shooter's abilities. But if 30% of those here say they shoot within the top 25% of all shooters then as a group they are shorting themselves and their abilitiy.

Even a windbag on AR does more shooting and better shooting than most all fellows who deer hunt every fall.

Your opinion of shooters in general may be higher than mine, but here, sight in means keeping a half a box within the 8" black. My low opinion of the typical shooter is an earned opinion, based on watching them shoot (and handle their rifles, if that too complimentary term fits at all)

JPK

what JPK said. I am not a world record holder anywhere. That said, I shoot a lot, a LOT! Like the old story about the kid getting off the subway in NY and asking two winos how to get to Carnegie Hall. The one takes a swig off the bottle, looks up at the kid and says "Practice Man, Practice...".

Rich
Shooting, it's what I do

I marked myself as "above average" on both paper and game.

But then, I got to thinking..........I don't shoot with or around too many other folks. So I really don't know what "average" is. I know what some of the targets look like (from prior shooters) that I take down off the backstop at the club at times.

What would be considered an "average" sporter rifle group from the bench at 100 yards?? 300 yards?? 600 yards?? I have no idea.

Well enough to place 3rd in National Benchrest Competion HV.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
I have low regard for most shooter's abilities. But if 30% of those here say they shoot within the top 25% of all shooters then as a group they are shorting themselves and their abilitiy.

Even a windbag on AR does more shooting and better shooting than most all fellows who deer hunt every fall.

Your opinion of shooters in general may be higher than mine, but here, sight in means keeping a half a box within the 8" black. My low opinion of the typical shooter is an earned opinion, based on watching them shoot (and handle their rifles, if that too complimentary term fits at all)

JPK

Exactly what I was getting at in my post, just said ALOT better.

I think alot of us overestimate the "average" hunter. I see them all the time in the area where we ranch, driving along the road, hoping to jump out and fling some lead at something. Before someone says these guys aren't average either, I would be willing to wager they out number us that take it serious by 2 to 1 or more.

quote:

Originally posted by Sevenxbjt:

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
I have low regard for most shooter's abilities. But if 30% of those here say they shoot within the top 25% of all shooters then as a group they are shorting themselves and their abilitiy.

Even a windbag on AR does more shooting and better shooting than most all fellows who deer hunt every fall.

Your opinion of shooters in general may be higher than mine, but here, sight in means keeping a half a box within the 8" black. My low opinion of the typical shooter is an earned opinion, based on watching them shoot (and handle their rifles, if that too complimentary term fits at all)

JPK

Exactly what I was getting at in my post, just said ALOT better.

I think alot of us overestimate the "average" hunter. I see them all the time in the area where we ranch, driving along the road, hoping to jump out and fling some lead at something. Before someone says these guys aren't average either, I would be willing to wager they out number us that take it serious by 2 to 1 or more.

And I don't think alot of those guys I just mentioned spend hours at the range getting that group "a little tighter".

I guess that I would rate myself as pretty decent off the bench, mainly due my rifles that will shoot well. Would look pretty poor next to a benchrest shooter, but compaired to what I normally see at the range I am quite a bit better. As to game, knock on wood, I have yet to miss or fail to get at least one deer every year that I have hunted. I do however only take shots that I know I can make, have passed several times on iffy shots. Figure that I owe the deer better than a crappie wounding try.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Szczepaniak:
I'm fortunate to have access to a 1000 yard range in south Georgia so I get regular practice shooting long range bench rest. Some days are better than others. Every range cession is a learning experience and tests my loading abilities.

Learning experience should include spelling "session."

*LMAO*

Well I've never been to the AR. But shooting off a bench is very easy. Provided the rifle is sighted in to distence.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
There is a lot of gun knowledge here at AR. How about shooting skills (ability)?

I look better than I really am. I am picky about shots and walk away from iffy ones...

I was a nationally ranked small bore shooter as a kid, but that was a hell of a long time ago. I'm still pretty good and can outshoot about 95% of the guys at my range, but I'm not as good as I used to be because it's been a loooong time since I was a kid. And since I retired, I don't have to funds to put into the amount of practice I used to.

I'm better on hair than on paper, for some reason I have yet to figger out.

a long time ago I once shot well enough to get qualify for the Olympic tryouts but, since 50% of folks are below average and It appears that the top 50% is way overbooked, I guess I just say that I'm still learning and still trying.

When all things are right with the world I group them at 1 moa. I don't have the shooting lanes beyond 100 yards. Not all field shots go perfect. That's all there is.

I know for damn sure that the older I get, the better I was!