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I can't believe this rifle! It shoots like a laser beam! Savage Model 10 FCP-HS in .308 Win Nikon M-308 scope TPS steel 1 piece base (bedded using JB Weld) TPS rings (lapped) Brass: Lapua (Factory new unfired) Primer: CCI #200 large rifle Bullets: Barnes 168gr TSX BT Powder: IMR 4064 43.0gr OAL: 2.770" (.050" jump to lands) 3 shots (2 holes) fired from 100 yards off bench with front and rear sandbags .272 MOA max .118 MOA average to center  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land." -- William Kingdon Clifford | ||
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Savage rifles have been some of the most accurate rifles out of the box for some time. I have a savage tactical in 308 with a good bullet and little thought my first load for it shoots under 2.5 inches at 300 yards. I called it good. | |||
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I own two Savage suppressor ready rifles. .223 and .308. They are extremely accurate! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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It's what's expected from Savage. You're going to enjoy shooting that. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Nicely done!! Feels good when you hit on something like that, doesn't it? Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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I have one Savage, a precision carbine in .223. It's the most accurate rifle I own. Congrats. | |||
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What is the velocity of that load? -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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How many shots in that group? And what size was the next group? | |||
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Barnes Reloading Manual #4 shows the starting load of 42.0gr IMR 4064 is 2476fps and the max load of 46.0gr is 2720fps. So without a chronograph in my tool collection, I would estimate my 43.0gr charge would be in the neighborhood of 2530fps. They used a 24" Kreiger barrel and I have a 24" button rifled Savage. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land." -- William Kingdon Clifford | |||
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All groups were 3 shot groups. Due to external circumstances I did not have the opportunity to let the barrel cool between groups (except for a 30 min cool down while I collected range brass between the 43.5gr and 44.0gr shot). Here is the rest of the ladder... 42.0gr IMR4064  42.5gr IMR4064  43.0gr IMR4064  43.5gr IMR4064  44.0gr IMR4064  44.5gr IMR4064  45.0gr IMR4064  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land." -- William Kingdon Clifford | |||
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Nice shooting, but that's not a "group." In order to establish any sort of baseline accuracy for that load in that rifle, a minimum "group" consists of 5-shots and, preferably, to vet consistency for that particular load, you shoot 5 such groups, i.e., 25-shots. If you get the same sub-MOA group after 5 sets, then that's the load you go with, whether for hunting, competitive events, or making your bench-rest buddies drool, or whatever. But for real-world accuracy purposes, 3-shots isn't a group. It can just be a lucky day at the range. "Only accurate rifles are interesting." | |||
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Great group that is some awesome shooting. Have fun with the rifle. | |||
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Time to move out to 200 yards!  (Well done!) Regards, Robert ****************************** H4350! It stays crunchy in milk longer! | |||
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Never seen a rifle that will shoot 3 shots accurately suddenly stop doing so when firing 5 rounds. Group might get a little bigger, but 3 is plenty to check/compare. He'll I typically only need one round out hunting. Only Angels and Aviators have wings | |||
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Just curious, do you shoot much? Many rifles, unless set up correctly, can and do pitch rounds when shooting 5-round groups. It could be something about the rifle set-up, or it could be something about the ammo, especially if (as here) they're handloads. Shooting a 5-rd group repeatedly allows you to check for this. Don't get me wrong. The dude's got a nice Savage rig. I own two Savages and both are tight-nut shooters. His will probably keep a 5-rd group as tight as the 3-rd group, and maybe even do it over 5 such 5-rd groups. But he'll need to vet it for this. That's all I'm sayin'.
No it's not. See above.
Hunting what? From his description the dude is setting up a precision rig having the potential for some very accurate long range shooting - and, possiby, hunting and quite likely from a far greater distance than popping squirrels at 40-feet with an air gun in the backyard. He'll still need to vet it with more than a 3-shot group to be confident of holding consistent precision at distance. | |||
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So, isn't shooting 2 3 shot groups less than .25 in the same as shooting 1 6 shot group? The more shots fired per group, the more it becomes testing the shooter rather than the gun One shot , one kill | |||
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Not necessarily. It depends on how the testing is done. You can set up the procedure for shooting groups that, as a practical matter, takes the shooter out of the equation. That's why the larger 5-shot group matters, as it's a more reliable indicator of the rifle's inherent accuracy with a particular load (handload or factory). OP said:
Some use a bipod, along with sandbags. At that point, unless the shooter's adding himself back into the equation by, for example, jerking the trigger, not controlling his breathing, etc., the multiple 5-shot group procedure will be a valid test of that load in that rifle. Now, for what is called practical "field position" shooting, I agree, you're purely testing the shooter, which is why you first vet the rifle's accuracy and then zero it with a particular load, both from the bench, as above. | |||
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More data is generally better. If you really wanted to get statistical you would shoot a bunch and then calculate the standard deviation. 5 rounds seems like a good number simply because you know how a magazine full will shoot... | |||
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What program did you use to add the group data? Very cool! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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It is called On Target and it is FREE! How cool is that? http://www.ontargetshooting.com/ It took me a while of messing around with it to understand how to use it. I am not a pro, but I can do what I need to do. If you have any questions just ask and I am sure we or me can help! :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land." -- William Kingdon Clifford | |||
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The old 3 vs 5 vs 10 shot group debate. I used to be of the mind that more is always better. But I think the most sage advise is to shoot groups that reflect what the gun was designed to do. If you are shooting in a competition where you need to dump a full 30rd mag, then you should load, test, group, and practice that. If you have a hunting gun, then 3 rounds is plenty. Rest assured I will continue to shoot and reload for this rifle and find what it likes. This is after all, the very first time I took it to the range. And these are not match grade bullets to boot! I will be gathering much more data in the future. I do agree with you that 1 round of testing 3 shot groups leads to no conclusions other than "a lucky day at the range"! After all I didn't clean the barrel between groups, nor did the barrel cool down, and I was fighting winding, etc. Not uber scientific, I admit. I am just happy with the first trip with this rifle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land." -- William Kingdon Clifford | |||
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It isn't free any longer. I think they charge about $10-12 for it now. I've been using it for about 5-6 years now. A very useful tool. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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Thanks to Scott's recommendation I too own a Precision Carbine in .308 Win. It will shoot under an inch all day at 300 yds. with 175 or 180 sierras. Did I get the rifle of a lifetime? Could be, but I wouldn't trade it for all of Midas's gold. **************************The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. | |||
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Nick, I agree that five shot groups are a better measure of statistical averages. I usually put up two targets - one over the other. After five shots I replace the front target and leave the back target. I do this four times and use the rear target to determine the aggregate shot group. I try to duplicate that process three or four times over a period of two or three months. But then I am just a hunter that seems to need proof of my shot placement. Speer, Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon have reliable reloading data. You won't find it on so and so's web page. | |||
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You are still in luck: v1.10 (the freeware version) of OnTarget is still available. http://www.ontargetshooting.com/download1.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land." -- William Kingdon Clifford | |||
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Yeah, I shoot a bit. Generally about 10K a year in my rifles. Your oppinion, does not offset the fact, that 3 round groups are by far the standard across the globe. Upto and including military snipers. Shooting more isn't going to hurt, but it's certainly not mandatory. Only Angels and Aviators have wings | |||
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I prefer 3 shot groups. I get bored waiting to shoot 5 shot groups! Plus, I don't think I have fired 5 shots at the same animal. | |||
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Really! I am most interested in where the first shot goes, a so-called one shot group. btw My most accurate rifle ever was a cheapie Savage ie a Stevens. Good hunting. | |||
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