Hi what would be a good cut off calibre for feral cattle in fairly tight bush? there is a few of us who may be going into a national park to clean up some wild cattle possibly 3rd generation wild so I am guessing these are not your average dairy cow
I will use my 9.3x62 with 286gr woodleighs
I think a sensible minumum would be a 30/06 with 220gr bullets what do you think?
as this is a government inspired excerise we dont want or need any accidents so I am thinking worst case scenario being charged by wounded or just pissed of bulls I think all people on the cull should have a rifle that will drop a bull under these circumstances
what do you all think?

505 Gibbs

Couldn't think of a better opportunity to limber up my Roling Block in 45/70 with some of my home cast 405 gr flatpoints. Sounds like you've got it covered pretty well, the 06 with the 220's would be great cow stoppers. I have lots of different guns that would be quite suitable but my Rolling Block keeps coming up in my mind.

Steve E............

Your 9.3 would be fine, the .30-06 with good 220 gr bullets would be ok to, I myself would want a little bit more, 375 H+H would be what I would shoot, enough power and shootablity. I would go for good solid shoulder shots, break bone. Unless you are looking at secureing meat, if thats the case then I would brain shoot them, in that case any good accurate rifle will do with good solid bullets. They are going to react more like wild bolvine's than what we would think of as you basic farm type cow. Treat it as dangerous game, till you shoot a few to get the handle on what is what.

a good 180gr bullet like the barnes X or winchester failsafe should wrok well as a minimum. The 9.3 should be great too.

I have heard in africa, that a little 308 with 220 grain round nose is often used for that type of duty... anything bigger just gives more assurity in accomplishing the job....

The 9.3 x 62 should be just the thing for that type of work!

cheers
seafire

3/8" scant nylon and a fast horse.

An ol cow ain't that hard to kill. I have sent several to the big pasture in the sky with a 22LR. Thier anatomy is pretty simple. The brain is above the eyes and below the ears. If you have ever been around cattle at all you will smell them when you get anywhere close.

That said for the purpose you state I would choose a good 30 cal or bigger. Think Moose and you will be fine.

quote:

Originally posted by ElCaballero:
Think Moose and you will be fine.

Sorry did not see you were from down under! What I mean is that they are good size but not bullet proof.

What Caliber for Feral Politicians?


Or is there such a thing as Feral politicians or is that just urban mythe?



cheers
seafire

As a general rule 30cal plus would be the way to go. Sure you can have a go with slightly smaller cals but the bigger the better.
These scrubbers in Vic? Baw Baw? Through the SSAA CPM programme?

AH there in Vic and it is through the DSE and SSAA

Seafire/B17G I would put feral politicans in the same class as feral cats what ever rifle you have in your hand will suffice aim for a gut shot though

I've shot a number of cattle including 1 large bull successfully with my 7mm-08 and have seen them shot with a 243, but realistically a 308 or 30-06 loaded with barns x or other strongly constructed bullet would make a more sensible minimum.

SMLE,

I would buy some woodleigh 320 gr softs and solids for your 9.3 if you wanted more poke from the gun you already have. But the 9.3 will do it well I would think. I wish I was going !!

Gidday Guys,

Seafire there is no such thing as a feral politician. They are all townies these days. Feral implys that they have gone wild and therefore live in the wild.

I respect anything that lives in the wild and have yet to meet a polly that I respect (with the exception of Ron Mark coz he is one of the officer cadets I trained back in 1980. He is a good MP of integrity).

Just use anything you can get your hands on to put down a polly. Even a golf club will do.

For the bovines, they aren't hard to put down but if you go for 30-06 and 180gr partitions as a minimum you are not going to strike any probs.

Just drive them hard and placement above all else.

God forbid even a 243 with 85 gr hps will do the trick with brain shots (not that I'm recomending them).

Happy Hunting

Hamish

PC I allready got me some 320gns!!!!
just trying to figure out a load haven't done that yet but it would make for an interesting comparison

quote:

Originally posted by smlekid:
PC I allready got me some 320gns!!!!
just trying to figure out a load haven't done that yet but it would make for an interesting comparison

Keep us posted on your load data for that bullet !!

quote:

Originally posted by smlekid:
AH there in Vic and it is through the DSE and SSAA

I work with DPI (DPI & DSE where NRE before the split) so I wonder whom the contact is I'd like to get involved to shoot some if possible.

SMLE who had those woodleigh 320 gr again ??

I would use my 416 just because it would be fun.

Other wise min I would go is a 30-06 from there on up.

I would think that the 338 shooting 225gr bullets would do the job or the equivence of that.

Just a question for the Aussies.
I realize that hunting these bovines with a rifle is more simple and fun for most but why not trap them and butcher them for beef? Or demisticate them for local herds?
Is it a health issue? Beef producers probably would not like it. It just seems silly to just shoot them. I mean the entire U. S. beef industry was started with feral cattle after the Civil War.

ElCaballero my guess would be they would be scared of TB when we culled a heap of goats we were not even allowed to touch a downed animal due to a concern of disease that they may have carried you are right it seems a waste of good meat perhaps some may get "lost" if the shoot goes ahead
as for rounding them up they tried to do this with goats it cost thousands for a few head so I doubt they will try it with cattle

PC this has been getting talked about for about 18 months as yet no concrete deceisons have been made it is my understandibg that it is a smallish property that was given back to nature and now they want to out any non native animals

quote:

Originally posted by PC:

quote:

Originally posted by smlekid:
PC I allready got me some 320gns!!!!
just trying to figure out a load haven't done that yet but it would make for an interesting comparison

Keep us posted on your load data for that bullet !!

A few years ago I culled cattle from brush with a CZ 550 American in 9.3x62. I used 286-gr. Partitions and 270-gr. Speers at 2,350 fps. As Ray and others predicted, the Speers were too soft, but the Noslers were fine. The Nosler load runs out of steam around 200m, but my shots were within 150m. A 286-gr. Woodleigh should be fine. I also used a 95 Winchester in 30-06 with Remington’s 220-gr. CoreLokt load and Federal’s 180-gr. Trophy Bonded load. The TB opened well if I hit bone. Both 30-06 loads were good, but the 9.3x62 dropped things faster.

If I had to do this over, I’d use a bolt action with a low-powered scope because I shoot that better than anything else. The 9.3x62 would be fine, and I agree on the 30-06/220 as a minimum.

I hunted alone, but I could have done better working with others. Remember your goal is eradication, not sport, so don’t plunge into the brush after them. Individuals animals have every edge there and will lead you on a merry chase. You’ll get a few but the herd will learn to avoid you. Then it gets far harder.

Old females lead the herd, so kill them first. One white-faced old cow always saw me and alerted the herd. That left me time for one very fast shot. I killed one each time I found the herd, but then she’d run them off. Finding them again was always harder and the next shot much longer and I had less time to shoot. After I killed her it got easier.

If I were doing this over, I'd find the trails so I knew where they fed and drank, then I'd take four other men and set up an ambush. Any good infantryman can talk you through it if you have questions, but here's the gist:

Move carefully and quietly into position downwind of the trail and far enough away that you don't get trampled when the shooting starts. The center man is the leader. As cattle enter the kill zone, each man follows them in his sights. The leader shoots the center animal as it drops his head to feed or drink, or when enough cattle have entered the kill zone. NO ONE FIRES BEFORE THE LEADER.

At his shot everyone opens up. The man on the left end shoots the animal on the left end and works his way to the center. The second to left man starts closer to the center and works left. The men on the right do the same in mirror image. The leader shoots fleeing or charging animals. This way you don’t get one animal with five bullet holes when you could have had five with one hole each. The shooters should practice in daylight and at dusk, and the leader should control the group as one or two men reload and move up to shoot stragglers.

Once you get it down, each man should be able to drop one animal on the first volley, which will confuse the cattle. If your men can shoot fast, each might drop a second. Thirds are unlikely.

You should also shoot to stop instead of kill. Break heavy bone, even if that means breaking hips now and head-shooting later. No joy there, but that’s why they call it a cull and not a hunt.

It’s no fun. It’s just killing.


Okie John

quote:

Originally posted by smlekid:
Seafire/B17G I would put feral politicans in the same class as feral cats what ever rifle you have in your hand will suffice aim for a gut shot though

For me, feral cattle... 6mm on up, shot placement is the key....

Feral Cats.. Feral Politicians.... Feral Ex wives.....460 Weatherby minimum legal calibre!

quote:

Originally posted by smlekid:
ElCaballero my guess would be they would be scared of TB when we culled a heap of goats we were not even allowed to touch a downed animal due to a concern of disease that they may have carried you are right it seems a waste of good meat perhaps some may get "lost" if the shoot goes ahead

The concern with goats is Q Fever, and it's also found in feral cattle. There is a vaccine available, costs about $80, if you can't get it free under the Q Fever Management Program.

Okie John I agree with your advice it is not nice work sometimes but it has to be done I certainly don't get a lot of joy out of it but feel if it has to be done it needs to be done humanly and I can generally hit what I aim at and as a famous bloke once said use enough gun

SmleKid,

Some guys have report the 9.3x62/250gn Woodleigh an emphatic killer on scrub bulls, and not even at full vel.
Ray Atkinson has stated that the 320gn Woodleighs dont open up as well in the 9.3x62,9.3x74r velocities. But cant remember what distance he was talking about.Might be ok at full vel. and moderate range. I reckon the 300gn, but would probably load up all 4 weights(250,286,300,320) and see how they go.
Why not ring/email Jeff Mcdonald at Woodleigh bullets and see what he recommends? I believe He has done extensive testing of his pills in The north of Australia.
If you do contact him let us know his recommendation. Good luck and have fun!(dont forget the camera)
I would like to use a.358 Norma/270gn Northfork @an easy 2500fps for the job u mention.

smlekid ,
An Australian PH recently said he'd let me shoot buffalo cows with my 7mm Magnum if I used Failsafes . That said I wouldn't like to face a close in charge from a scrubber with anything much less than a .375 . Bigger would be better .
I think the terrain and level of cover dictate what is safe to use . Also who is backing you up and what they are shooting comes into it .

SMLEkid,

Why not the good old SMLE in 303? It should work without any trouble.

Good hunting!

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
SMLEkid,

Why not the good old SMLE in 303? It should work without any trouble.

Good hunting!

That is a VERY good idea - especially with its 10-shot magazine.


Okie John

I would say the 310 cattle killer would be pretty good cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by smlekid:
Hi what would be a good cut off calibre for feral cattle in fairly tight bush? there is a few of us who may be going into a national park to clean up some wild cattle possibly 3rd generation wild so I am guessing these are not your average dairy cow
.....

Better question might be:

What is too much?

Minimum 270.I know two guys that have taken feral bulls here in New Zealand with the 270 and had no problems.I used 7mm REMMAG to shoot my bull 170gr Norma Vuklan a head shot at 55 yards,i went for a head shot as we only had 15 minutes of daylight left. As always its shot placement.I will use 375H&H next time.

smlekid,
If organised through DPI, I'm sure you'll be "told" what will be tolerated as the minimum. Personally, it would be a 30/06, but if the shooting gets fast and furious because its a cull, I'd take your 9.3 with approprate 286gr. Guy I knew used the 320gr Woodleigh Weldcore and from his 9.3x62, got near full penetration on a scrub-bull from front to rear. Gave him heaps of confidence.
Cheers...
Con

i used the 200 gn tsx from my 06 and got real good penetration on scrub bulls , would not hesitate to use it again

daniel

Do you guys harvest the meat on those feral cattle?

When I did, the pickers got the meat. When they were done, there was just a wet spot on the ground.


Okie John

Man! ain't those cows dead yet? You don't need any gun powder if you talk em to death. roger

I will use my 9.3x62 with 286gr woodleighs
I think a sensible minumum would be a 30/06 with 220gr bullets what do you think?


You are in the heart of Woodleigh country. You can turn an '06 into a DEEP penetrater. Not to mention bone plowing, rib smashing and complete penetration you lucky bastards.