The .270 was introduced to sell the model 54. There were plenty of cartridges all ready in use to get the job done, but Winchester was afraid the rifle wouldn't sell.

I prefer that a company use quality to sell their products. I am insulted when they wave bright, shiny new objects in front of me.

Orion 1, "asskisser" you are nothing more than an armchair expert, TROLL, Go away

/ JOHAN

[ 06-14-2003, 02:11: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

Just to respond to Orion's excellent point about cartridge availability. I agree that the .270, .308 and .30-06 are truly awesome cartridges and they are everywhere. But, believe it or not, I've never actually seen anyone shooting a .260, and I go to the only decent range left to residents of Vancouver (population of Greater Vancouver is about 3 million) a couple of times a month. I have seen dozens of 6.5x55's, however. I may have seen one or possibly two 7mm-08s in the last twenty years, and again, I've seen dozens of 7x57s. So up here, at least, those old dinosaurs are still holding their own.

This is in no way intended to be a criticism of the .260 or 7mm-08, which are clearly excellent cartridges (but no better than 6.5x55 and 7x57).

Personally, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the .30-06 is really the greatest and most versatile centerfire rifle cartridge, but I still dearly love the Swede and the Mauser and I have to concede that they can do pretty well everything that the '06 can with less recoil.

As far as which cartridge should hang around and which should go? They all can stay. Ammo for most foreign cartridges can be found, and the 7x57 and the 6.5 Swede are both easy to find. Remember, these cartridges were developed and designed for war, not any sporting purpose.
Why should I, or anyone else shooting a 7x57 ot the Swede sell their guns so Remchester and Winington can make a profit? My 7x57 works. Period. I shoot something with it, and if I do my part in placing the bullet, it dies. End of story.
Granted, the 7x57 is underloaded by the factories due to the many weak rifles made during the early part of the 20th Century. Handloaded, it is a diffent proposition. I can get 2880 FPS with a 140 gr. Nosler BT from a 22" barrel model 70 Featherweight. The load is hot, but safe in my rifles. BTW, that's only 120 FPS slower that the top loads in the latest Hornady manual.
When you knock a cartridge that is 111 years old and can still keep up with rounds like the .270, well let's see how well you do at that age, if you're still around. Like Murphy sez, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." And the 7x57 ain't broke.
Paul B.

[ 06-14-2003, 08:15: Message edited by: Paul B ]

P17:

If you have never seen anyone shoot a 260 Remington, the next time I am going to be up in Washington around Blaine, I will give you a call and you can see someone shoot one, if you care to cross the border.

In fact, you can say you shot one, since I will be more than happy to let you shoot mine.

Seen a lot of your other posts on here also, since you and I share some affection for older military stuff. would not mind crossing over and take a look at your collection when I am up that way ( eh?)

Seafire,

I am only a young shooter I suppose have been shooting since I was 12 and am now 27 but I have begun loading Roundnoses in my 30/06 (180 gr RN speers, still have a few dirty old Nos ballistic tips to get rid off before I start on my speers ), .375, .416, .585 and will load them in my impending 9.3x62. I will also load RN's in my little swede carbine M38 1942 6.5x55. I just have 100 odd 129 gr hollowpoints to shoot off.

I started loading RN's because of the perfromance I was getting with flat nose bullets in my 45/70.

I have to say if there is one bullet better than a RN it is Flat Nose Bullet

Seafire, excellent topic. When I got out of the military in the sixties and my family was young and money was tight I used a .303 for many years in northern Ontario for moose with very favourable results. I was talking to an old friend there last week and there are still a lot of guys using the .303. It has been said before that the .303 has been used to harvest more moose than all other calibers combined in Canada and while I think that may be a bit optimistic, I wouldn't be surprised.

I think Paul B was right that there is still a place for the 7X57 and also that the factory ammo is underloaded. The speeds he is getting by handloading are about the same as I get with my 7mm-08. The only reason I went with the 7mm-08 is that I wanted a short action carbine, a Savage Sierra that is a beautiful little gun that I have implicit faith in. It's funny that in our quest for advances in technology and design that so often we get away from the basics that are time proven.

Savage. You make a good point. Have you read the latest RIFLE Magazine, where Ross Seyfried load s for and lets a young lady hunt elk with the old .256 Mannlicher? A 160 gr. round nose bullet at IIRC, 2150 FPS. One shot at 80 yards = one elk down and dead. I'm starting to think 175 gr. RN's for my 7x57.
Paul B.

PaulB,

quote:

---

I'm starting to think 175 gr. RN's for my 7x57.

---

With results like that I don't blame you.

Like I said, friends, the 175-grain Hornady RN is what I load for my little 7x57.

Seafire, I'd love to try that .260 sometime. Since I respect the 6.5x55 so much, I'll bet the .260 is equally as good -- and that's saying a lot

PC; Glad you see what works instead of what gun "righters" tell you what works best since that is what they are paid to do.

P 17, and Savage; Yeah the old stuff works because most people shoot something that kicks less than newer stuff and place the bullet in the right spot instead of just thinking the bigger the bullet, and the bigger the kick, then the deader the target is going to be.

On here, I read a post from a gent in Sweden who said that the Swedish gov't was considering making the 6.5 x 55 obsolete for hunting. They make a rifle and bullet have a certain performance before you can hunt with it. They must have been reading gun "righters" columns again. And this is in the country that developed the 6.5 and has been used for moose for eternity, with great success.

They actually found out the old 6.5 with a 156 grain round nose actually out penetrated a 375 H&H with a 300 grain round nose!!! so needless to say the 6.5 kept its stamp of approval.!!

Thanks for the kudos on the posting of the topic guys, guess it only attracted the really astute!!