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I've finally put some lead down range through my latest rifle. Well, perhaps a bit of background, this has been a long term project rifle. It started with the purchase of a VZ-24 action, and a midway 35 whelen barrel about 4 years ago. A friend of a friend chambered it as a 35 whelen ackley. I did the sporterizing of the action, put it in a tupperware stock, and topped with a leupold M8 2.5x compact. As a 35 whelen ackley, it would group 3 250 gr bullets into 1 1/2" at 100 yds, but only when loaded to high pressures, 2600-2700 fps. When loads were backed off so much as a grain, groups opened to 3-4". I simply wasn't comfortable using loads that hot, and the last few rounds I ran through had extractor marks on the brass. Anyhow, I decided to have it re-chambered to a 350 Rigby, and just recieved the barreled action back from John Ricks last week. The Rigby case is just slightly larger in capacity then the 358 Norma, so I perused a few manuals, and found 75 gr H 4350 as a max for 250 gr bullets. I loaded 3 ea hornady 250 gr sp over 71, 72 and 73 gr. I also loaded up some 200 gr cast over 15 gr unique to get zeroed in. The zero was close, and at 50 yds, I found that the 4 shot group of the 200 gr cast grouped ~.5", certainly promising, as the whelen chamber would only do ~2" at 50 yds with the same bullets. I went out to 100 yds, and the loads clocked 2630, 2675 and 2690 repseptively. After retrieving the target, the groups were ~1 3/4", 1 1/4" and 1 3/4". It was windy and the target was moving on the stand. Certainly seems promising, as I still have different powders, bullets, primers, bullet seating and crimps. | ||
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One of Us |
Thanks Paul! I was wondering how your project was going just this afternoon. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeez keep us updated. This may be the medium I've been looking for! Good Hunting, ------------------ | |||
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Moderator |
Now I have 3 or 4 range sessions w/ the 350. So far all testing has been with H 4350, CCI 250 and WW 375 H&H brass modified. All loads have had bullets seated to the canalure, and with no crimp. I've tested the Hornady 250 gr sp & rn and the Speer 250 gr hot core. It seems the common accuracy charge is 70 gr for moa accuracy and ~2600 fps for 250 gr cup core bullets. This is equivalent to the original factory specs for the round. I estimate w/ H 4350 a max charge would be ~76 gr and produce 2800 fps w/ cup core bullets. Also to be noted is this is a 24" .358" 1-14 barrel, the original 350 Rigby used a .356" bore, and using these loads and the above mentioned .358" bullets is highly unrecomended. I'll be testing the same bullets w/ Varget and VV N550 in the future, and I'm guessing/hoping they will produce their best accuracy at the upper end. | |||
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I took it out again the end of last week. The one thing I learned is that primers definately matter! I'd been using CCI 250's up to this point, for no other reason than I had a bunch of them. I was working with 250 gr speers, 66 gr Varget, and varying the seating depth, I decided to also load 3 w/ Federal 210 primers. The CCI loads were grouping ~2" at 100 yds with the various seating depths, the Federal 210's grouped 1". Guess I'm going to switch primers | |||
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One of Us |
What would be considered the most powerful loading in this caliber Paul?? | |||
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One of Us |
PC, You need a 350 Rigby to go with your 416 CZ. Basically, it is a 375 necked to 358 and no belt. Has similar taper and shoulder angle to 416 Rigby. Mike | |||
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Moderator |
If one is loading to reasonable pressures, I'd expect 225 gr @ 3000 fps, 250 gr @ 2800 fps and 275-280 gr @ 2600 fps, not sure about the 310 woodleighs, but maybe 2400 fps? So far I've only been testing the 250's, and have been pushing them to 2750 w/ apparently reasonable pressures, using Hodgdon 4350 and Varget. As Mike mentioned, it is essentially a 375 H&H case, sans belt, the case is shortened to 2.76", and the shoulder pushed back a bit, and sharpened to 45 deg. With the sharp shoulder, cases do not get longer after sizing. | |||
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One of Us |
Mike please don't say that (you need a 350 Rigby to match your .416) This forum is killing my bank account, I had never heard of a .585 before this forum. Actually Mike I really want a .375 H&H and 9.3x62 both in cz's | |||
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quote:It was Mike that got me hooked on the 350 Rigby, he is a bad influence PHurley, I'd heard Northfork was coming out with a 270 gr, I'll have to pick some up, as I've been wanting to try something in the 270-280 range. I really wish Hornady still made the 275 gr rn. | |||
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<phurley> |
Paul H -- The North Fork is what I call a Semi-Round Nose, having quite a rounded point but not blount point such as the Hornady. I also tried the Swift A-Frame 280 gr bullets. They were not as accurate as the North Fork and exhibited quite a bit more pressure. Good luck with that new rifle and good shooting. | ||
one of us |
Strictly from COTW: is it possible, that the 350 Rigby case is the basis of the 6.5 and 8x68S case? The 9.3x64 case ( smaller than above ) is the famous H & h belted case with the belt removed. Just an idea, Hermann | |||
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One of Us |
PC, Bertrams will sell single cases as far as I know. Get a 350 Rigby and seat a round nose in it. It is just the best looking thing have seen except for a 375 with a 300 grain Silvertip. A 416 Rigby demands a 350 Rigby and when you see the 350 you will agree. Of course I won't mention 180 Hornady XTPs on roos and the like Here is what you do. Get a CZ in 375 to be a 350 Rigby. So you the have the perfect pair, while on the other side of the coin you fuck about with 585 Nyati Mike | |||
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One of Us |
Next time I am talking to Bruce Bertram I might get a 350 Rigby case from him (your beggining to sow a seed But I really like the idea of owning a .375 H&H and good brass is easy to get. Your a bad influence on me Mike After telling me my .585 on a 602 would not match with my .416 you neally had me buuying a cz 550. I had to get therapy to help me understand that the 602 is very close to a 550 not enough difference that they are not sought of matching (despite the backass safety and trigger). I have a more appropriate trigger for it now. | |||
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Actually Mike to be honest I would like to get a 375 H&H to try the new .375 cal Nosler BT's how good would they be on pigs and roos driven as fast as that beautiful case can drive them ?. I am really hoping that Nosler Bring out a .416 Ballistic tip. | |||
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Moderator |
quote:I'm afraid most Americans don't appreciate the aesthetics of a good case, but I do, and yes, the 350 Rigby is a wonderful round, albeit not that practicle. I'm likely going to pick up another VZ-24 action, but can't decide between a 35 whelen, or a second 350 Rigby. I'd imagine the 200 gr bullets for the 35 rem, driven @ 3100 fps from the 350 Rigby to be a rather dramatic round. | |||
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One of Us |
Paul, I would get a second 350 Rigby as you have the ground work behind you. Most of my life I have rifles in pairs as a minimum. One left setup and the other to play about with, but still set up for some other load that is different to the first rifle. A plus with push feeds is that it is easy to have barrels interchangeable between actios. You could of course do it with a Model 70 if the extractor slot was taken all the way around the barrel. Mike | |||
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Moderator |
I finally have one load that will require no messing with. WW 375 H&H brass, Fed 210, 66 gr Varget topped with a 250 gr hornady rn seated to the canalure. Despite high wind that required a pile of rocks on the target base to keep it from falling over, and waits for the target to stop rocking back and forth to make the shot, I put 3 into 1/2" at 100 yds. I didn't have the chrono set up, but previous sessions lead me to believe they were leaving right around 2700 fps. | |||
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one of us |
Paul, Planning on doing any shooting this weekend?. I might head to the range on Sat or Sun. Got a lot of 470 NE loaded with your 460 gr bullets. 12o gr of H4831 should push them out pretty good!. Let me know. | |||
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Paul Do you find the availibility of .35 cal bullets a problem? And is there much truth to the fact that .35 bullets lack SD & good BC's?? | |||
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quote:PC, man, the 225 gr is .250, and the 250 is .270ish. not bad, and you can find them all day long. If you get a pointy bullet, they will give a decent bc. Like I posted somewhere else, the 225 sierra is like .400 bc, with an sd of .250. While NOT african SDs, they are exactly what I want in a thinned skined game gun... good hunting jeffe | |||
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One of Us |
PC, Woodleigh make a 310 grain 35 which was for the 400/350. Put feathers on the back of it and you can throw it like a spear Mike | |||
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one of us |
The 350 Rigby proved itself long before this board was around...I'd shoot anything on this earth with that woodleigh 310 gr. bullet, it just keeps on tick'en...... | |||
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One of Us |
To many calibres not enough funds | |||
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Moderator |
quote:I've had no problem getting 35 bullets, as I posted on another thread, there is a huge selection of bullets. The 35 bore is for the number crunchers, the sd's and bc's aren't that impressive, but in the field they are very effective rounds. [ 07-08-2002, 19:24: Message edited by: Paul H ] | |||
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<phurley> |
Gentlemen -- I am just an old fashioned shooter that does it often. The tech side of bullets is way over my head. When I look at a bullet and get that gut feeling it will do, then shoot it enough rounds to satisfy my accuracy and toughness test, I am set to use it in the field. That 270 gr. North Fork bullet in .358 or the Woodleigh 310 gr. or the 280 gr. Swift A-Frame all seem to me to make the grade. I have not shot the Woodleigh, but have shot the North Fork and Swift extensively through my .358 STA's and they are awesome in all respects. I am a hunter of game and want something that will fly fast and hit hard out to 300 yards and my .358's take a backseat to none in that respect. I do admire the 1000 yard target boys, and their game, but as for me, I like the challange of the hunt. Good shooting. [ 07-18-2002, 17:00: Message edited by: phurley ] | ||
one of us |
Paul I have found the 250gr Rn Hornady's very accurate in my 358 Norma 3/8" at 100yds, @2900 fps. The 350 Rigby sounds like another fine 35 cal rifle. I always have had an intrest in the Rigby round and may have to build one. | |||
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RCHAPURE, What is your recipe for your 358 Norma and 250 gr bullets?. I just finished bulding a 358 Norma on a Pre-64 Winchester. It has a 25" Pac-Nor barrel and laminated stock (soon to change). My only load so far has been 250 gr Kodiak's with 62 gr of IMR 4895 @ 2600 fps. Didn't want to go too hot right of the bat. Shot a nice pig with it down in California last week. Erik | |||
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