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350 Rigby, initial impressions
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I've finally put some lead down range through my latest rifle. Well, perhaps a bit of background, this has been a long term project rifle. It started with the purchase of a VZ-24 action, and a midway 35 whelen barrel about 4 years ago. A friend of a friend chambered it as a 35 whelen ackley. I did the sporterizing of the action, put it in a tupperware stock, and topped with a leupold M8 2.5x compact.

As a 35 whelen ackley, it would group 3 250 gr bullets into 1 1/2" at 100 yds, but only when loaded to high pressures, 2600-2700 fps. When loads were backed off so much as a grain, groups opened to 3-4". I simply wasn't comfortable using loads that hot, and the last few rounds I ran through had extractor marks on the brass.

Anyhow, I decided to have it re-chambered to a 350 Rigby, and just recieved the barreled action back from John Ricks last week.

The Rigby case is just slightly larger in capacity then the 358 Norma, so I perused a few manuals, and found 75 gr H 4350 as a max for 250 gr bullets. I loaded 3 ea hornady 250 gr sp over 71, 72 and 73 gr. I also loaded up some 200 gr cast over 15 gr unique to get zeroed in.

The zero was close, and at 50 yds, I found that the 4 shot group of the 200 gr cast grouped ~.5", certainly promising, as the whelen chamber would only do ~2" at 50 yds with the same bullets.

I went out to 100 yds, and the loads clocked 2630, 2675 and 2690 repseptively. After retrieving the target, the groups were ~1 3/4", 1 1/4" and 1 3/4". It was windy and the target was moving on the stand. Certainly seems promising, as I still have different powders, bullets, primers, bullet seating and crimps.

 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Thanks Paul!
I was wondering how your project was going just this afternoon. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeez keep us updated. This may be the medium I've been looking for!
Good Hunting,

------------------
Andy Cooper

 
Posts: 6711 | Location: Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 14 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Now I have 3 or 4 range sessions w/ the 350. So far all testing has been with H 4350, CCI 250 and WW 375 H&H brass modified. All loads have had bullets seated to the canalure, and with no crimp. I've tested the Hornady 250 gr sp & rn and the Speer 250 gr hot core. It seems the common accuracy charge is 70 gr for moa accuracy and ~2600 fps for 250 gr cup core bullets. This is equivalent to the original factory specs for the round. I estimate w/ H 4350 a max charge would be ~76 gr and produce 2800 fps w/ cup core bullets. Also to be noted is this is a 24" .358" 1-14 barrel, the original 350 Rigby used a .356" bore, and using these loads and the above mentioned .358" bullets is highly unrecomended.

I'll be testing the same bullets w/ Varget and VV N550 in the future, and I'm guessing/hoping they will produce their best accuracy at the upper end.
 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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I took it out again the end of last week. The one thing I learned is that primers definately matter! I'd been using CCI 250's up to this point, for no other reason than I had a bunch of them.

I was working with 250 gr speers, 66 gr Varget, and varying the seating depth, I decided to also load 3 w/ Federal 210 primers. The CCI loads were grouping ~2" at 100 yds with the various seating depths, the Federal 210's grouped 1". Guess I'm going to switch primers [Big Grin]
 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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What would be considered the most powerful loading in this caliber Paul??
 
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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PC,

You need a 350 Rigby to go with your 416 CZ.

Basically, it is a 375 necked to 358 and no belt. Has similar taper and shoulder angle to 416 Rigby.

Mike
 
Posts: 7206 | Location: Sydney, Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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If one is loading to reasonable pressures, I'd expect 225 gr @ 3000 fps, 250 gr @ 2800 fps and 275-280 gr @ 2600 fps, not sure about the 310 woodleighs, but maybe 2400 fps? So far I've only been testing the 250's, and have been pushing them to 2750 w/ apparently reasonable pressures, using Hodgdon 4350 and Varget.

As Mike mentioned, it is essentially a 375 H&H case, sans belt, the case is shortened to 2.76", and the shoulder pushed back a bit, and sharpened to 45 deg. With the sharp shoulder, cases do not get longer after sizing.
 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Mike please don't say that (you need a 350 Rigby to match your .416) [Big Grin]

This forum is killing my bank account, I had never heard of a .585 before this forum.

Actually Mike I really want a .375 H&H and 9.3x62 both in cz's
 
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Paul H -- I shoot a .358 STA and have been getting excellent results out of the North Fork bullet line. They make a 225 gr, a 250 gr, and just recently a 270 gr .358 bullet. I have shot the Nosler Partitions, Barnes X, Swift A-Frame, Sierra Gameking, and Kodiak through me rifles. The North Fork have been the most accurate and exhibit less pressure than the other bullets. Being a bonded core front section, they are grooved on the rear shank to prevent barrel fouling. The information provided states they creat less pressure than other bullets. You might want to try them in your new rifle. Good shooting.
 
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Originally posted by PC:
Mike please don't say that (you need a 350 Rigby to match your .416) [Big Grin]

This forum is killing my bank account, I had never heard of a .585 before this forum.

Actually Mike I really want a .375 H&H and 9.3x62 both in cz's

It was Mike that got me hooked on the 350 Rigby, he is a bad influence [Big Grin]

PHurley,

I'd heard Northfork was coming out with a 270 gr, I'll have to pick some up, as I've been wanting to try something in the 270-280 range. I really wish Hornady still made the 275 gr rn.
 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Paul H -- The North Fork is what I call a Semi-Round Nose, having quite a rounded point but not blount point such as the Hornady. I also tried the Swift A-Frame 280 gr bullets. They were not as accurate as the North Fork and exhibited quite a bit more pressure. Good luck with that new rifle and good shooting. [Wink]
 
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Strictly from COTW: is it possible, that the 350 Rigby case is the basis of the 6.5 and 8x68S case?

The 9.3x64 case ( smaller than above ) is the famous H & h belted case with the belt removed.

Just an idea, Hermann
 
Posts: 828 | Location: Europe | Registered: 13 June 2001Reply With Quote
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PC,

Bertrams will sell single cases as far as I know.

Get a 350 Rigby and seat a round nose in it.

It is just the best looking thing have seen except for a 375 with a 300 grain Silvertip.

A 416 Rigby demands a 350 Rigby and when you see the 350 you will agree. Of course I won't mention 180 Hornady XTPs on roos and the like [Big Grin]

Here is what you do. Get a CZ in 375 to be a 350 Rigby. So you the have the perfect pair, while on the other side of the coin you fuck about with 585 Nyati [Big Grin]

Mike
 
Posts: 7206 | Location: Sydney, Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Next time I am talking to Bruce Bertram I might get a 350 Rigby case from him (your beggining to sow a seed [Wink]

But I really like the idea of owning a .375 H&H and good brass is easy to get.

Your a bad influence on me Mike [Big Grin] After telling me my .585 on a 602 would not match with my .416 you neally had me buuying a cz 550. I had to get therapy to help me understand that the 602 is very close to a 550 not enough difference that they are not sought of matching (despite the backass safety and trigger). I have a more appropriate trigger for it now.
 
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Actually Mike to be honest I would like to get a 375 H&H to try the new .375 cal Nosler BT's how good would they be on pigs and roos driven as fast as that beautiful case can drive them ?.

I am really hoping that Nosler Bring out a .416 Ballistic tip.
 
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Mike375:
PC,

Get a 350 Rigby and seat a round nose in it.

It is just the best looking thing have seen except for a 375 with a 300 grain Silvertip.

(sic)
Mike

I'm afraid most Americans don't appreciate the aesthetics of a good case, but I do, and yes, the 350 Rigby is a wonderful round, albeit not that practicle. I'm likely going to pick up another VZ-24 action, but can't decide between a 35 whelen, or a second 350 Rigby.

I'd imagine the 200 gr bullets for the 35 rem, driven @ 3100 fps from the 350 Rigby to be a rather dramatic round.
 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Paul,

I would get a second 350 Rigby as you have the ground work behind you.

Most of my life I have rifles in pairs as a minimum. One left setup and the other to play about with, but still set up for some other load that is different to the first rifle.

A plus with push feeds is that it is easy to have barrels interchangeable between actios. You could of course do it with a Model 70 if the extractor slot was taken all the way around the barrel.

Mike
 
Posts: 7206 | Location: Sydney, Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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I finally have one load that will require no messing with. WW 375 H&H brass, Fed 210, 66 gr Varget topped with a 250 gr hornady rn seated to the canalure. Despite high wind that required a pile of rocks on the target base to keep it from falling over, and waits for the target to stop rocking back and forth to make the shot, I put 3 into 1/2" at 100 yds. [Smile]

I didn't have the chrono set up, but previous sessions lead me to believe they were leaving right around 2700 fps.
 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Paul,

Planning on doing any shooting this weekend?. I might head to the range on Sat or Sun. Got a lot of 470 NE loaded with your 460 gr bullets. 12o gr of H4831 should push them out pretty good!. Let me know.
 
Posts: 355 | Location: Anchorage, Alaska | Registered: 09 November 2001Reply With Quote
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Paul Do you find the availibility of .35 cal bullets a problem?

And is there much truth to the fact that .35 bullets lack SD & good BC's??
 
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by PC:
Paul Do you find the availibility of .35 cal bullets a problem?

And is there much truth to the fact that .35 bullets lack SD & good BC's??

PC,
man, the 225 gr is .250, and the 250 is .270ish. not bad, and you can find them all day long. If you get a pointy bullet, they will give a decent bc. Like I posted somewhere else, the 225 sierra is like .400 bc, with an sd of .250. While NOT african SDs, they are exactly what I want in a thinned skined game gun...

good hunting
jeffe
 
Posts: 40529 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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PC,

Woodleigh make a 310 grain 35 which was for the 400/350.

Put feathers on the back of it and you can throw it like a spear [Big Grin]

Mike
 
Posts: 7206 | Location: Sydney, Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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The 350 Rigby proved itself long before this board was around...I'd shoot anything on this earth with that woodleigh 310 gr. bullet, it just keeps on tick'en......
 
Posts: 42375 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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To many calibres not enough funds [Big Grin]
 
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by PC:
Paul Do you find the availibility of .35 cal bullets a problem?

And is there much truth to the fact that .35 bullets lack SD & good BC's??

I've had no problem getting 35 bullets, as I posted on another thread, there is a huge selection of bullets. The 35 bore is for the number crunchers, the sd's and bc's aren't that impressive, but in the field they are very effective rounds.

[ 07-08-2002, 19:24: Message edited by: Paul H ]
 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
<phurley>
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Gentlemen -- I am just an old fashioned shooter that does it often. The tech side of bullets is way over my head. When I look at a bullet and get that gut feeling it will do, then shoot it enough rounds to satisfy my accuracy and toughness test, I am set to use it in the field. That 270 gr. North Fork bullet in .358 or the Woodleigh 310 gr. or the 280 gr. Swift A-Frame all seem to me to make the grade. I have not shot the Woodleigh, but have shot the North Fork and Swift extensively through my .358 STA's and they are awesome in all respects. I am a hunter of game and want something that will fly fast and hit hard out to 300 yards and my .358's take a backseat to none in that respect. I do admire the 1000 yard target boys, and their game, but as for me, I like the challange of the hunt. [Wink] Good shooting.

[ 07-18-2002, 17:00: Message edited by: phurley ]
 
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Paul
I have found the 250gr Rn Hornady's very accurate in my 358 Norma 3/8" at 100yds, @2900 fps. The 350 Rigby sounds like another fine 35 cal rifle. I always have had an intrest in the Rigby round and may have to build one.
 
Posts: 280 | Location: SARASOTA , FL. | Registered: 28 February 2001Reply With Quote
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RCHAPURE,

What is your recipe for your 358 Norma and 250 gr bullets?. I just finished bulding a 358 Norma on a Pre-64 Winchester. It has a 25" Pac-Nor barrel and laminated stock (soon to change). My only load so far has been 250 gr Kodiak's with 62 gr of IMR 4895 @ 2600 fps. Didn't want to go too hot right of the bat. Shot a nice pig with it down in California last week.

Erik
 
Posts: 355 | Location: Anchorage, Alaska | Registered: 09 November 2001Reply With Quote
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