I am assembling a dedicated bull Elk rifle. Rifle, scope and cartridge are in my safe – 30-06.

I have previously used “a” .458 Cutting Edge ESP bullet very successfully for bear. And why I am strongly considering the .308 CE 165gr Lazer, with a 400 yard, self-imposed maximum distance. Rifle has a 24.5” barrel, MV ~3,000 fps. BC (.485) is good and at 400 yards, "minimum" opening velocity is exceeded by 500 fps. Terminal energy is good as well, falling a bit short of 2,000 ft lbs at 400 yards.

I am looking for a load / bullet that will give me all the advantage I can get with this rifle "further down range" should the shot opportunity not be "ideal." With all respect, after exhaustive study, I prefer to stay with the '06 after much deliberation of the Whelen, .338-06, .338 et al. 30-06 it is and I'm happy with my choice. Thanks.

I’m very familiar with the reputations of the 165's and 180's in Barnes, Partitions and Accubond for Elk. Am looking for any experience with this CE 165 gr bullet specifically on Elk sized game?

Thanks.

Cheers.

Those are some long bullets at 1.443". My biggest problems is getting 3000ft/sec with that bullet without some crazy high pressure.

Understood. Thanks!

I'm not familiar with the bullet so don't have any advice there, but I can tell you most of my elk kills have been either inside of 30 yards or longer than 200 yards (one at 500 yards). So you need a bullet that will hold together at close range, still expand at 400 yards and of course shoot accurately in your rifle for the longer shots.

quote:

So you need a bullet that will hold together at close range, still expand at 400 yards and of course shoot accurately in your rifle for the longer shots.

For years I used the Part. Then both the wife and I switched to Accubond for everything including Africa. They have never failed us.

Sorry no experience with the CE bullets

Two good friends of mine killed bull elk last year.

One friend used a Partition
One friend used a Balistic Tip

Both bullets retained just over 66% and obviously were recovered

I also killed a bull last year

My bullet of choice for everything is Accubonds

My recovered Accubond also retained about 66%

I also have no experience with your bullet of choice, however I have been around a lot of elk that died.
I believe your choice in cartridge is excellent, 30/06, however mundane is my favorite. Your bullet choice seems well thought out and I am quite sure it will let the life out of any elk you choose to shoot with it.
Good luck with your set up, happy hunting.

You can't go wrong with the Nosler Partition or Barnes X-bullet...need look no further !

Thank you Gentlemen.

Aside from my admitted OCD, I'm a strong believer in the Boy Scout motto. Of course, I’d prefer a 100 yard shot but, over the last 55 years, the hunting Gods have rarely paid much attention to what I’ve preferred. Hence my wanting to maximize the downrange capability of the bullet I choose under "less than ideal" conditions / shot opportunity. Too,.....can't argue the reputations of the Partitions, Accubonds and Barnes.

Personally, I prefer complete penetration which the Barnes and CE bullets typically deliver. My concern is: expansion with the 168 gr TTSX at 300+ yards at 30-06 MV???

Thanks again.

Cheers.

Since most hunters I've come across over the past 45 yrs have no clue how to dope wind, I'd have to say just stick with the proven commodities.....Accubond, Partition, Ballistic Tip and get as close as possible.

So Task1, just how many elk have you killed or seen die? Seems to me you are way over thinking this bullet thing. I don't think elk are bullet proof. I bet through the years, I have seen Elk die from just about every bullet on the market, except the one you ask about. Too, damned expensive.If hit in the right place they always die. Even with cheap old cup and core bullets. Pick a bullet and load that shoots in your rifle and practice. As stated before, Nosler and barnes bullets are tough to beat. Daryl.

Daryl,.....5. Sage advice.

JG,.....will do.

Thanks.

As much as i love the CEB bullets in larger calibers, i think the .308 ones are too light.
I have killed a few elk. Not with the CEB but with TSX and partitions.

I did use the .308 CEB on quite a few Gemsbuck in Namibia. They did the job of killing them but was not impressed with them. The animal had little or no reaction to the hit. I like to see some reaction and know i hit them good.

I also used the same bullet on deer and impala with great results. But that is a much smaller framed animal.
The do exactly what they say they will. All the petals shear off and make 6 small holes and the shank keeps moving like a solid.

Just my opinion.

My best 30-06 elk bullet has been the Hornady 190 grain boat tail spire point interlock. I have several one-shot kills with that combination.

I've killed several nilgai antelope using a 308 and the 168gr tsx. Muzzle velocity is around 2,600 fps. Several shots have been in the 200 yard range. I would think out of a 30-06 the 168 would be a 400 yard bullet.

Perry

150g Partitions has been our go to elk bullet in our 270s. Great success for both myself and my two sons. So many good choices now, Accubond LRs, A-Frames, North Fork Soft Points. At 30-06 velocities an 180g CoreLokt will do just fine as well.

Thanks Gents. Your "experienced" information is Very helpful. Yes, I am no doubt overthinking this but it's my nature to be over prepared and not under prepared.

I have Accubonds and Partitions on my bench, both 180's and 200's. Will order a box of the H 190's and start some load testing later this month.

Have a good day everyone.

I used the 180 partition for years, then I started using the 200 gn partition in the 06 @2700 plus, first with NORMA MRP and now with R17
I have taken brown bear leopard zebra impala sable kudu sambar hog deer and to be honest I don't think I will ever go back to the 180...not that there is anything wrong with the 180 , its just that the 200 partition is a better combination at 2700 then the 180 @2900 out of the 06.
it looses velocity slower then lighter bullets drifts less and from my experience breaks shoulders better then lighter bullets
Daniel

I use 180 Nosler Partitions @ about 2800fps in 30-06, have for years. At 200yds on an elk I get pass thru's, if that's what you want. From a proper rest with the wind conditions right, I'd take a 400 yard elk with this load with extreme confidence. But, in my experience, and this is hunting elk here in Arizona, the longest shot I have taken is 205 yards. The closest 20 yards. I believe bullet placement is a lot more critical than bullet selection. One of my best friends killed a huge 320+ bull last year with a 270 WSSM and 140 Accubonds at 430 yards. dropped him in his tracks. Then again he is quite an accomplished rifleman!

FWIW

Regards

Jerry

A big bull elk is capable of stopping any expanding bullet under the right circumstances.Ive mostly used the 165, 180, and 200 gr Partitions,and the 165 Bitterroot.Ive recovered them all except the 200 gr NPT.

In the 30/06 I like the 165 NPT and Bitterroot driven about 2900 fps by 59 gr H4350.

Pretty hard to beat a 30-06 for elk if you use a 200 gr. Nosler partition or Accubond at 2650 to 2700 FPS. It will reach out an touch them or it will penetrate thru them on a Texas heart shot at shorter range..Used it a lot off and on over the years. Keeps me wondering why I had to play with all those other big game rifles, my .338 Win being the one exception.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Pretty hard to beat a 30-06 for elk if you use a 200 gr. Nosler partition or Accubond at 2650 to 2700 FPS. It will reach out an touch them or it will penetrate thru them on a Texas heart shot at shorter range..Used is a lot off and on over the years. Keeps me wondering why I had to play with all those other big game rifles.

I've scheduled some time tomorrow to prep some starting loads with the 180 and 200 gr Partition. Will be at the range early in the week. Nosler Tech recommended the 180 gr Partition for a possible 400 yard application. Could go either way but definitely don't want to end up overthinking this.

You already are overthinking it. Pretty much all the bullets described are going to work for you. Stop "what if(ing)" everything and pick a bullet. 165, 180, and 200 grain partitions are great as well as the accubonds. Ray is right about the 200 grain partition, it has some serious penetration. If you live where some of us hunt and the ass end of an elk for 3 sec is all you see the 200 gr NP is a great bullet. I probably wouldnt base my decisions on the unlikely what if scenarios that transcends you down roads of paranoia.

quote:

Originally posted by smallfry:
You already are overthinking it. Pretty much all the bullets described are going to work for you. Stop "what if(ing)" everything and pick a bullet. 165, 180, and 200 grain partitions are great as well as the accubonds. Ray is right about the 200 grain partition, it has some serious penetration. If you live where some of us hunt and the ass end of an elk for 3 sec is all you see the 200 gr NP is a great bullet. I probably would base my decisions on the unlikely what if scenarios that transcends you down roads of paranoia.

Sf,

Overthinking? I was being facetious. Thank you for your input. I agree with you.

TASK1

Where are you going to hunt elk? A 30-06 is a great elk cartridge!

quote:

Originally posted by smallfry:
Where are you going to hunt elk? A 30-06 is a great elk cartridge!

Where? Working with Ray A. TBD. And yes it is!

30-06 Springfield on elk?

180 TTSX.

My preference in bullets involves those made with copper and lead, preferably bonded. Thirty years ago the only choice was Bitterroot, but of late several companies have gotten on the bandwagon. Of those, Swift has the most experience. I prefer 180 grain but 165 in a sturdy bullet will also do the job.

Interesting thing about elk and bullets. The very first elk I shot was a 900lbs 6X6 bull, big by any standard. Meat locker estimated the weight. Anyhow, I had this old 270 Winchester I was shooting a lot as it was the only rifle I had for years. I finally get an elk tag, and decided I would shoot this rifle on the 1st day of the hunt, if I didn't get an elk I would switch to another rifle, a 30-06. As fate would have it this bull presented himself just as legal shooting time was coming to an end on the first day. He was about 80yds from me and hadn't noticed I was there. You know the feeling, I just about crapped. Threw up the old 270, and before pulling the trigger I reminded myself to check my sight picture, which I did. At the crack of the rifle, the bull dropped as if he'd been hit by lightning. The magical load? A Winchester 130 grain BULK bullet, at 3100fps. He didn't even twitch. The shot right thru the heart and bounced off the spine. I tell this because I am long winded, but it confirms that a well placed shot cares for all things.

Oh yeah one more thing, that old 270 is now a real elk rifle 35 Whelen, and I have a new 270 as well.

Regards

Jerry

Thanks.

ELK with a 30-06,......

Nosler recommended 180 Partition
Swift recommended 180 A Frame
North Fork recommended 165
Barnes recommended 165 TTSX

All good choices no doubt. Your recommendations, much appreciated.

FWIW, Task, my son and I are making kind of a bucket list elk hunt the week before Thanksgiving. I tried to get him an elk in 2003 and they wouldn't cooperate, and now with this colon cancer playing games I don't know how much time I have.

The only elk I ever took fell to a 150-grain Grand Slam out of a .270, and the bullet failed to exit. I don't like that...

Well, the rifle my son is taking is the venerable '06. I am going to load 165-grain Nosler Partitions, as we found a one-hole load for it at 100. I am figuring the bullet should have enough energy to do the job out to 250, maybe 300 at a stretch, and the load is accurate enough to do the job at those distances.

Are there bigger rifles that might do the job better? Certainly. But that will always be the case. As the saying goes, "You pay your money and you make your choice."

I just hope the hunting gods smile on him and he is up to the task. The cartridge is, and has been for as long as it has been used in the field. Add to that the better projectiles we have now, and it is pretty much a slam dunk if you put the bullet where it is supposed to go.

But that is another conversation entirely. Go get your bull.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
FWIW, Task, my son and I are making kind of a bucket list elk hunt the week before Thanksgiving. I tried to get him an elk in 2003 and they wouldn't cooperate, and now with this colon cancer playing games I don't know how much time I have.

The only elk I ever took fell to a 150-grain Grand Slam out of a .270, and the bullet failed to exit. I don't like that...

Well, the rifle my son is taking is the venerable '06. I am going to load 165-grain Nosler Partitions, as we found a one-hole load for it at 100. I am figuring the bullet should have enough energy to do the job out to 250, maybe 300 at a stretch, and the load is accurate enough to do the job at those distances.

Are there bigger rifles that might do the job better? Certainly. But that will always be the case. As the saying goes, "You pay your money and you make your choice."

I just hope the hunting gods smile on him and he is up to the task. The cartridge is, and has been for as long as it has been used in the field. Add to that the better projectiles we have now, and it is pretty much a slam dunk if you put the bullet where it is supposed to go.

But that is another conversation entirely. Go get your bull.

Thanks Doubless. May you and your Son have a fantastic hunt. All the best and God Bless.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Well, the rifle my son is taking is the venerable '06. I am going to load 165-grain Nosler Partitions, as we found a one-hole load for it at 100. I am figuring the bullet should have enough energy to do the job out to 250, maybe 300 at a stretch, and the load is accurate enough to do the job at those distances.

I would suggest the Barnes 168 TTSX in your 30-06 if you want a more guaranteed pass-through. Only though, if you can get your groups down to 1/2" with the TTSX. A one hole load isn't going to be noticed if you only shoot to 300 yards. The TTSX will out-perform the Partition on pass-through's and subsequent blood trail's for elk.

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Call me and we'll talk more. I am busy harvesting right now and can set up a time later in the evening to call you back. It gets tough around 6:30 PM at Mountain time.

Corey 1(306)480 2954

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:


I would suggest the Barnes 168 TTSX in your 30-06 if you want a more guaranteed pass-through.

Guaranteed huh? What makes you say that?

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:


I would suggest the Barnes 168 TTSX in your 30-06 if you want a more guaranteed pass-through.

Guaranteed huh? What makes you say that?

Brad,..... I'm sure Mr. Corey can speak for himself and answer your question. FWIW, my interpretation of Corey's "a more guaranteed"..... means a "higher probability" of a pass through. We all know, of course, there are no "guarantees" when it comes to any bullet performance on game. That said,....with no guarantee of anything (penetration or expansion),.....the TSX and TTSX do have a well established reputation in the field for pass-throughs which supports Mr. Corey's comment. YMMV.

If you test the 200 gr. Nosler partition and the 180 gr. Nosler partition at 400 and 500 yards on target, you wonder who the tech was and what he based that on...

I found less than 1.5 inch drop between the two as best I could determine, sometimes a tad less and sometimes a tad more at both 400 and 500 yards, both bullets chronographed 2700 FPS by design for the test. In the field you would not be able to determine which one would hit or miss. too close to call..I decided the 200 had a 20 gr. advantage! that ain't much but it'll do for me. BTW both work equally well with the partition on whitetail, mule deer and elk, not many bullets can do that. this is because the partition opens up quickly in front but holds the base together..

Task1,

I've not hunted elk, only mule deer in Western Colorado, so take my comments with that grain of salt due to difference in species size.

Monometal, and some non-monometal, bullets are sensitive to a minimum velocity impact for reliable expansion. Here is a link that many be of interest to you in your bullet selection:
http://www.huntingwithnonlead....lets_long_range.html

For my son's .300 RSAUM I have Nosler Accubond, Ballistic-Tip, and E-Tip bullets in 150gr, 165gr and 180gr and CEB FBH bullets in 150gr and 165gr for reloading.

California requires monometal bullets, parts of Arizona recommends(but does not require) the same, for hunting. Living out West, our hunting opportunities require selecting a bullet/loading combination that will properly perform for both close and long shoot opportunities due this forested and open spaces available for hunting. Our self imposed maximum-comfort range is 325yds; once our dry seasons are behind us (if ever) we'll be working to expand that comfort range to 350yds and eventually (hopefully) to 400yds. I doubt we'll ever get beyong 400yds as our availability of long-range shooting areas are limited and very frequently closed due to dry condition/fire hazards.

Anyway back to your question.
Use the most accurate best-performing bullet/load combination from your rifle, and should the shooting opportunity present itself you'll be well satisfied with the results.

Good luck with your hunt.

As much as I like the 30-06, its traditionally been my go to elk rifle..I have no doubt that my .338 win is the perfect elk rifle. With 225 gr. Accubonds or Partitions at 2900 plus just a tad, sighted in 3" high at 100 yards, that's 4"a high at 200 yards, dead on at 275 yards and 5 inches low at 325 in my present gun..I can hold center mass and make a killing hit at up to 400 yards..My last three elk were 356, 329, and 366 and my gun was used by another person, a young girl that pegged one with a top of the back hold at 400 plus some..How could you ask for more than that. Ive noticed the .338 kills them faster, they don't travel as far after a hit as with the 30-06..both kill them but I have had a few occasions wherein they have run a little to far to suit me with my 30-06..MAYBE!

I'd hazard a guess that "225 gr. Accubonds or Partitions at 21900" would knock 'em down pronto!

Guess I better rework my loads down to 2900 FPS, reckon?? but Im sure giving up some big time killing power..