When do you know that your barrel is heated to the point that you should let it cool. How hot is hot? I hjaven't shot in awhile and last night I just grabbed the .300 win savage I just restocked and blasted 6 rounds into the target to test the new stock. I found the barrel to be quite warm to the touch. Duration from first shot to last shot approximately 6-7 minutes. Thanks Chain

I only fire 1 to 3 rounds on warm days before I let the barrel cool. When shooting on cool days sometimes I can fire 3 to 5 shots before letting the barrel cool. On cool days the barrel cools faster also.

I use the rule of thumb that if the barrel's too hot to hold, then it's too hot to shoot.

Jaywalker

Your rifle isn't the type that you take to the range and shoot all day.You'll probably shoot it to work up loads or sight in for hunting season.Either way you are purhaps going to shoot no more than 15 to 20 rounds a session.If you did this in a half hour period 5 times a year the worst case is that your accuracy will be little affected the rest of your life even if you may only be twentfive.

Case in point; my cousin has a Ruger mod. 77 light hunting rifle that he bought in 1970.On the average he now puts between 75 to 100 rounds a month through it. He does this at a rate of 40 to 60 rounds in a 2 hour period.it probably has had 6000 rounds put through it, 4000 in the last 4 years, and it still shoots moa. roger

Thanks Guys. It was hotter than hell out. I just had to shoot that rifle the stock has been on it for 2 months. It was great.

I let a sporting rifle cool while I record the results and shoot the four others in order.

When it's hot out they don't cool way down of course and much of that time the sun is shining on them too.

This is the best way I can think of to test them and keep track of things. I suppose the first shots from each rifle are the most telling as the rifles are cold then. On the other hand some of those may have had some tweaking done and they may be settling in.



There are six in this picture and five will fit on a bench. Can't say that's the reason they are on the ground. In any case this is a typical battery at the range.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:There are six in this picture and five will fit on a bench. Can't say that's the reason they are on the ground. In any case this is a typical battery at the range.

Can't say I like cleaning rifles as much as you. roger

I find that with a sporter barrel it really heats up after the second shot, possibly three but no more than that. Reach around and place your hand on the rear of the barrel about an inch or so beyond the end of the action. If it's too hot to comfortably keep your fingers there, it's too hot to shoot. Have a cola, smoke a cigarette, go for a whizz - whatever, but let that barrel cool. Otherwise you're just wasting yor money. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:
I use the rule of thumb that if the barrel's too hot to hold, then it's too hot to shoot.

Jaywalker

Yup, I grab the gun by the barrel in one hand and if I can't pick it up and hold on to it it's just too hot to shoot.

I've used this rule of thumb for many years and it's seemingly a good one.

Barrel cooling question:

I have a soft exterior freeze pack (for use on knees, back, etc.) that I carry with me in a cooler and lay that on the barrel (close to chamber) for a couple of minutes then slide it down the barrel for a couple of minutes, then let the barrel come to air temp for a couple of minutes. This cools the barrel down fairly quickly. The pack is not frozen but very cool. Does anyone think this is detrimental to my barrel?

Hello the campfire:
floridabigfish sugests that you use a freeze pack to cool the barrel of your rifle. I would worry about that. I have read other posts that suggest using water or ice water to cool the barrel.
I have not shot as much as others who post here but I would worry about "shcok cooling". The barrel and action are hot through out. The cooling effect of the freeze pack or the ice water would rapidly cool the surface of the action/barrel, leaving the "core" hot until the heat has been absorbed from the barrel. It would seem to this slow mind that this could introduce or at least change the stresses in the barel for a time. The cooler outside trying to contract against the hotter interior. One way to loosen a stuck barrel or even a screw is to differentially heat the receiver and barel.
It may do no harm what so ever to cool the barrel this way. Until I know otherwise, I think that I will leave this sugestion on the table.
Judge Sharpe

It's not uncommon for me to go the range with 200 or more rounds of experimental loads to be tested, and the rifles do get hot.

The vast majority of my loads use cast bullets, but many are NOT creampuffs, by any measurement, and in the Nevada desert heat it takes forever for a barrel to "cool" even to 100 degrees (I have a thermometer to measure in-bore temps).

In my shooting van I have rigged a 2-gallon jug with a plastic tube attached to its spout, and when the barrel gets hot I run ice water through it for ten seconds, right on the van's benchrest so the water runs out on the ground.

This immediately gives me a cool barrel, and I then blow any remaining water from the barrel with about fifteen seconds of compressed air from a tank under the benchrest.

I have seen no damage or diminished accuracy in any of my rifles from this procedure, after using it for about a year.

Also, good cast-bullet performance usually requires that the bore be "conditioned", by firing a few rounds and getting some lube and fouling in place. The conditioning doesn't seem to be affected by the ice-water treatment, as groups --and location of groups-- do not change from before the cooling to after the cooling.

This saves an amazing amount of time when there's shootin' to be done!

I have used wet towels to cool the barrel, but it sure does draw horrified looks from people nearby! Steel transfers heat very poorly, so I let the rifle sit for awhile afterward in order to allow the some cool/some hot parts of the barrel to equalize.

A better way would be to run water over it and into the barrel channel to ensure all of the barrel gets some attention. I'd still give it some time to equalize, though. (You'll need to take the barreled action out of the stock to clean and rust protect occasionally, of course.)

Probably better is Bren MkI's approach of water itroduced into the bore, but I don't have access to compressed air. (Didn't I read somewhere that soldiers blew a mouthful of water spray into the breech to cool it? Maybe fiction, I don't recall.)

For the squeamish, rack your hot rifle in the shade, muzzle up, with the breech open. The heat in the action and barrel steel will heat the interior air, causing it to rise, taking the heat with it out the top. It'll also suck in relatively cooler air through the breech and continue this "convection cooling." To get this effect, the rifle can't be horizontal, however.

I've also considered getting a battery-powered aquarium pump to force the air into the breech a little faster to help the convection, but haven't done it yet.

Jaywalker

I tried an aquarium air pump for cooling barrels, drawing air through a copper coil installed in a cooler full of ice. It was a 120V pump running from a small inverter in my shooting van. Although I measured the temperature of the air leaving the pump at 36 degrees on a very warm day, this wasn't enough "cool" to make much of a difference. Heat transfer to air from steel is a slow process.

BTW, putting water through the bore does give much more even cooling than will any cold source applied to the outside of the barrel.

Note that it only takes about ten seconds or so of ice water to REALLY take the heat out of a barrel, compared to quite a few minutes with airflow.

All I'm using for the compressed air is an "air pig", a small air tank with no compressor or other working parts except a pressure gauge. I fill it at the tire shop, and it's rated for 165 psi. It cost about $30 at an auto parts store, and one filling usually lasts me for several trips to the range. As I mentioned before, about 15 seconds of airflow leaves the bore clear.

It should be said too, that the barrel temps are not really all that high. A sporting-rifle barrel that is far too hot to touch comfortably is often still well under 200 degrees. In the world of steel, that's not much! (I actually measured the temps with my probe-style digital thermometer, and was surprised by how LOW the readings were.) We're not dealing with machine-gun temps, where barrels easily reach very high temperatures indeed.

Chain-one of the things I've gone to doing when I am shooting for serious load testing is to use my probe thermometer (like one used in the kitchen for food temps).

I stand the gun in the rack at the range, and put the therm in the muzzle for a reading. Then after shooting I put the gun back in the rack and the therm back and I do not shoot again until the temp reads the same as it was b4 I started at all.

A bit anal and it does take time, but for me it has been very effective. You can also get some temp strips that go on the tube as well if you want. I believe a co. called Necco carries them.
It sure does help to take either a couple more guns along or a good book to pass the time till the tube temp comes back down.

Certainly not a perfect method but it does well for me.

Good luck

MD

Yeah, the water doesn't boil when touching the outside.

The inside gets much hotter, though, since the temperature of the gas is likely 2,000 - 3,000 F, and steel transfers heat so poorly. Since most of the the heat stays inside, it's still there to be removed by the water in the bore.

Another way to "cool the barrel" is not to heat it as fast in the first place. Comparatively little of the barrel's heat comes from bullet friction - powder creates gas, and more gas means more heat transferred to the bore. Shooting cartridges that hold less powder keeps the heat down - less powder, less gas, less heat.

Jaywalker

quote:

I would worry about "shcok cooling"

I don't know the temperature in a case that's in the firing stage.....possibly over 2,000 degrees F. However it's duration is about .001 second and the heat transfer in that time is minimal. After repeated firings the barrel can heat to over 150 degrees F.....and that's too hot to hold on to.....you can't pick up the barrel at that temp.

Rapid cooling with such things as ice packs and very cold water are not an issue here.....the temperature gradient is minimal. If the barrel was red hot and someone did that we got trouble in River City Ethyl.....

Fast cooling in the 150 to 40 degree range won't metallurgically hurt anything.....it might cause some point of impact change however if it';s not uniformly done.

vapodog,

thanks...I was thinking the same thing. I have not notice any change in POI group to group. Letting the barrel air cool in Florida takes too damn much time and my shooting time is limited like most everyone else.

My "ice pack" is usually just cool by the second or third round anyway, but it really speeds up the process.

I agree with Jaywalker. If it's too hot to hold in your hand, it's too hot to shoot.

vapodog:

quote:

I don't know the temperature in a case that's in the firing stage.....possibly over 2,000 degrees F. However it's duration is about .001 second and the heat transfer in that time is minimal.

I'll have to both agree and disagree. Granted the duration is short, but that 2,000+ degrees is in contact with a material that has poor heat tranference properties. Perhaps not much is transferred per shot, but what does transfer stays mostly right where it's put. If we're feeling 150F outside, it's much, much hotter in the leade and bore. It's hot enough to erode steel, in any case.

Personally, I don't see enough difference between icepacks and plain air-temperature water to make much difference. Water works pretty fast without augmentation.

Jaywalker

I meant to say shock cooling. sorry I shoot in the hot alabama summer and my practice is to let the barrel never get so hot that I can not hold it.
The exception is High Power Rifle. and my service rifles are designed with this in mind. Summer is a good time to slow down and do ad little as you can get away with. To tell thr truth I play out in the heat before my barrels will.
Cooler weather is on the way.
Judge Sharpe
Think of 120 degrees and a blowing sandstorm, and what that does for your shooting

I shoot 3 shot group then put that gun in the pickup minus the bolt. Start pickup and turn ac on full blast and shut off all the vents except for one. then I position the gun so that the cool air blows up through the action and bore. seems to cool quickly. Shoot other guns while waiting. simply just rotate so you are always shooting a cold barrel. 5-10 minutes with a good ac blast seems to really help.

I shoot at the house and you know there is always something that can be done there between shots while the barrel cools. I appreciate all the input guys. Thanks

I have been using a damp rag over the barrel for several years now and it works great. Sometimes I'll even leave the rag over the barrel while I'm shooting. I don't agree that steel transfers heat poorly. I lay the rag over the top of the barrel and in just a few minutes the entire barrel is down to ambient temperature.

DeltaHunter,

I usually take the rag off after a couple of minutes myself. As I mentioned, I only stopped doing that because people kept coming up to me and warning me of the harm it was causing. It wasn't, but it bothered folks who were trying to be nice, so I left off doing it when other folks were around.

The poor heat transference ("thermal conductivity") of iron and steel isn't an opinion, it's a quantified physical property of each metal. See the following table.

While it isn't the poorest metal heat conductor, it definitely transfers more slowly than copper, aluminum, and brass, the other major metals used around firearms. This slow transfer means that what feels uncomfortably warm to our hand through the thickness of a barrel is much hotter inside the chamber and bore. OTOH, a barrel made of aluminum would be really hot to touch after the first couple of rounds fired.

Jaywalker