If a person recognizes a piece of RED Hot steel, why would he ever want to pick it up to see if it is HOT. No, I really do not need to "try" one to realize it does not meet my needs, wants, nor desires.

But, for those who think they are the Bees Knees, good for you.

Just remember, Hot Core "told you so" when it lets you down.
-----

By the way, I believe it was Mr. Bartsche who mentioned the Forward Scope helped him with a Vision related issue a few years ago. And I see him posting some very small groups from time to time. Which brings up this question:

Mr. Bartsche, how well do the Scouts you have shoot?

Concerning a military scout, in the field, traveling light and alone, I think Cooper was mentally masturbating picturing this scout fella as an expert in bushcraft, guaranteed to spot the enemy before he was spotted, and if he did need to shoot, the "speed" of a scout rifle would ensure the scout decked the bad guy 1st, and them run away as a single shot doesn't give the position away.

As to the glare of the sun on the forward scope early at sunrise and sunset, again, the Stery scout allows you to to mount a scope in the traditional position above the receiver, it is a very well designed gun.

I wonder if Cooper was designing the scout rifle today, in 2011, if he would be mounting an Aimpont or Doctor optic forward of the receiver, instead of the Leupold. Red dots were not as well developed in the early 1980's.

EDIT: Cooper also said, about a hundred times, that the Garand was the bees knees when it came to infantry weapons, so that is the rifle he thinks troops should have been carrying in combat, not a bolt gun, except for this hypothetical scout fella.

If they were to re-name them Tactikewl Scout rifles, I daresay you couldn't sell them fast enough. Especially if they came with a pair of black pajamas and a ninja rag to tie around your head.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

Mr. Bartsche, how well do the Scouts you have shoot?

A large degree better than with iron sights.
Gave an 8x57 scout to a young girl at the range with a 1 1/2 power scope. Using a steady rest she can bang the pig silhouette in the shoulder at 300 yds consistently . I think part of the problem is across this or any forum that people form opinions and then try to prove they are right even though they have little or no hands on experience knowledge to any extent. Hey to each his own.

Personally I have gained a lot of information , knowledge and entertainment from these threads. When the bickering is meaningful , respectful and on a mature level there is something to be gleaned. If I don't like the music there is always the power switch. roger

I've never owned a scout rifle and I never will. If for no other reason than they are ugly. They look like a monkey f**king a football.
I've never owned an AR clone with tacticool crap hanging all over it for the same reason.

That is my OPINION and I'm sticking to it.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
I've never owned a scout rifle and I never will. If for no other reason than they are ugly. They look like a monkey f**king a football.
I've never owned an AR clone with tacticool crap hanging all over it for the same reason.

That is my OPINION and I'm sticking to it.

I respect what you say but I'm having a problem co-relating an image of the scout and that animal doing whatever your talking about. a football? really? roger

Hot Coe

Col Cooper walked the walk, that is documented fact. We know you're an engineer, have killed thousands of deer and elk and obviously have much more combat experience than Col Cooper to make such assessments. So please advise us on your extensive combat experience as an infantryman?

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Hot Coe

Col Cooper walked the walk, that is documented fact. We know you're an engineer, have killed thousands of deer and elk and obviously have much more combat experience than Col Cooper to make such assessments. So please advise us on your extensive combat experience as an infantryman?

Larry Gibson

Just for clarification.....It's my understanding that this thread is about the hunting application of the scout rifle and not the military potential.....not that there might be some overlap in the two arenas.

Maybe I misunderstood that but my post is in that context.....and I must say that I'd very much like a fine scout rifle to play with to see if it's something I can use to advantage in my hunting style.

Without one to play with I must say that the concept of a light short accurate rifle is all I'm interested in as I've never fired more than three rounds at any target ever.....The idea of extra magazines no matter where they might be only adds weight and needlessly.....again...I'm not hunting enemy soldiers.....or am I misunderstanding the scout rifle totally?

I have two scout type rifle set ups both milltary actions that I didn't want to go to the trouble of bending the bolts and drilling and tapping I put a ashly weaver mount on the barrel and mounted leupolds on them.

It made them both into very useful rifles that I can use now because my eyes just can't use iron sites any more. With out much trouble or money.

I perfer low over the action scopes but my 06 scout has become my favorite TX pig gun.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
...I must say that the concept of a light short accurate rifle is all I'm interested in ...

Hey Vapo, Here is something that you would probably like. I spotted it in the Dec2010 American Hunter on page 40. It is a KelTec SU16CA Modular Light Rifle. The key word being "Light". It is shown in the ad with 2-magazines in the Butt Stock, 1 in the Magazine Well, 1 on the ground and a couple of "extra" cartridges laying on the Receiver. Obviously it has to be made "Light" so you old guys can tote all the ammo and magazines.

The ad lists the following:
1. Light weight.
2. Integral bipod.
3. Clean piston operation.
4. Folds in half for transport.
5. Two 10-round magazines fit in the stock.

It has Iron Sights and apparently some kind of Red Dot sight attached to the receiver.

I’ll hazard a guess they "accidentally" Designed the Folding Stock when some Design Engineer had to smash it across a rock to loosen the magazines after low-crawling through some mud and sand mixture with it.

And if a person really wants the entire Scout treatment, they could easily Duct Tape and Baling Wire a scope to the Hand Guard.

You wanted "Light" and KelTec has just what you ordered.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Obviously it has to be made "Light" so you old guys can tote all the ammo and magazines.

T

The usual intelligent response from HC.

Larry Gibson

" If " a person left the two magazines which go in the stock - in the truck - and only loaded 3-cartridges in the magazine for the rifle, remove the Red Dot sight, extend the "Integral Bipod and saw it off", you might get rid of another 3-3.5#.

Would that help you Vapo???

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
" If " a person left the two magazines which go in the stock - in the truck - and only loaded 3-cartridges in the magazine for the rifle, remove the Red Dot sight, extend the "Integral Bipod and saw it off", you might get rid of another 3-3.5#.

Would that help you Vapo???

....now yer talkin!

Cooper said that what he wanted was "handy," and he got it.

Problem: equally handy is the Ruger Frontier, at a bit less than half the Steyr Scout's cost; also the Savage Scout, at about one third.

quote:

Originally posted by mauser93:
Cooper said that what he wanted was "handy," and he got it. ...

I've found the extremely well Designed Remington M7 to fill my "handy" requirements - without all the Design Flaws of the Scout Concept. Plus, as a GREAT side benefit, all of mine have the fastest production Trigger ever made, the ""excellent"" Walker Trigger.

The scout concept never struck me as a great idea, but when a man with Cooper's experience said that it had merit I figured it was worth a try. I cobbled one up out of a Rem600 and liked it. Sold that and bought a Savage Scout...liked it more. Sold that and bought a Steyr. Loved it. Trigger, folding back-up sights, two scopes (one scout, one regular) mounted in QR rings, emergency bipod, extra mag, mag cutoff...perfect. What's not to like?

Think it's ugly? You're right. If that bothers you, then buy something with classic good looks...you know, an AR or something.

I don't know if it would survive parachuting out of a plane or belly-crawling through quicksand, and don't want to find out. Everybody loves it or hates it. I'm definitely in the "plus" camp. It's rarely the main rifle I pick for going on a special hunt...but it's almost always the back-up, go-to, just-in-case gun.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
[QUOTE]......Plus, as a GREAT side benefit, all of mine have the fastest production Trigger ever made, the ""excellent"" Walker Trigger.

In fact it's so fast it sometimes goes off before you even think about pulling it.

quote:

Originally posted by Oddbod:
In fact it's so fast it sometimes goes off before you even think about pulling it.

It's simply a case of premature triggerlation!

now that's funny, I don't care who you are. Especially from a Brit.

Seems to me the scout rifle is an answer to a question that nobody asked.
I've got a Marlin guide gun with ghost ring sights that I think will accomplish the same things.

quote:

Originally posted by sam308:
Seems to me the scout rifle is an answer to a question that nobody asked.

That's about the way I see it!

quote:

Originally posted by sam308:
Seems to me the scout rifle is an answer to a question that nobody asked.
I've got a Marlin guide gun with ghost ring sights that I think will accomplish the same things.

Not sure the "question" wasn't asked; lot’s of similar types of rifle development preceding Cooper's take up of the concept. Cooper did not lay claim to the scout concept or the 2 point slings. His writings give credit where credit is due. Cooper just managed to put the elements of the scout rifle concept together and it works. It is not a "panacea" but it will very nicely suffice foremost hunting situation given an appropriate choice of cartridge.

We shouldn't confuse the scout concept as a "close range" concept as is your guide gun. Though the guide gun is quite capable with in the 200 yard range where most big game is killed within. Appropriate scouts are equally useful for big game at extended range (350 -400 meters is generally considered a maximum useful range). The guide gun with ghost sights gets a little "iffy" out there where the scout rifle with the 1.5 to 2.5X scope is quite accurate.

I have killed a lot of big game over the years (not as much as Hot Core claims though) with scoped rifles. Most were with rifles of standard configuration with variable scopes of 1.5 to 3 x 5 to 10 power. I can count on 6 fingers the times the scope was off the low power when the killing shot was taken. Thus I have gravitated to several rifles with standard 1.5 to 3X fixed scopes on them and do not feel handicapped at all. Scout rifles with a 1.5 to 3X scout scope I find very useful as well, even more useful.

If someone doesn't "like" the scout rifle" concept because of the looks or because they are not used to using it that's ok, they are entitled to their likes or dislikes. But denigrating the scout rifle because they prefer something else does not mean, nor make, the scout rifle any less useful to those who do like and use the rifle correctly.

Appears to me that vapodog had a predisposed opinion of something he pretended (read his 1st post as he origionally asked the question) not to know anything about. In reality appears he was just trolling.......

Larry Gibson

I like the Scout concept a lot with the exception of the forward mounted scope. I get the point of it being low enough to co-witness with irons but I'd rather have a low powered variable that is optically far superior to any scout scope ever made. With a low powered variable you can still shoot with both eyes open just as you can with a forward mounted scope.

The Steyr Scout is an excellent little rifle. Both of my 308's have shot a number of 3/4" 3 shot groups at 200yds with 165gr Nosler Partitions - they are VERY accurate rifles even with premium hunting bullets.

I haven't found that much use for the folding bipod in the field, but I have slung up and used the Ching Sling - they are nice.

I also like the storage compartment for a cleaning kit just forward of the rear mag well.

I usually keep mine with a loaded magazine in the back and an unloaded one up front. When it's time to hunt just switch them and your ready. 5 shots better be enough for most hunts! I guess you could carry different loads front and rear if you needed to but a 165gr partition will take care of anything I'm going to hunt with a Scout in 308. Might make more sense for the 376 Steyr to have different loads front and back, softs up front and solids in the back maybe.

I'm sure a lot of folks will find mine to be the ugliest rifle they've ever seen and ridicule the scope I have on it but I don't really give a ####, it's a lightweight, quick handling, highly accurate rifle with superb optics and some neat gizmos - it flat out works:



I have a couple decent looking rifles too but this one tends to get hunted more often................................DJ

I don't find your rifle "ugly" for it seems well set up and as you stated it is accurate and that is what it is all about. Some three years ago I opted to buy the Tikka T3 Tactical and it is similar to a scout rifle and also very accurate. I have used mine at ranges to 600yds with no problems at all, but to do prone shooting with it the scope would have to be moved forward some to keep the right distance from the eye. Biggest negative I found in your rifle as well as mine is the price and if the Ruger had been available then, would have gone that route just for the dollar savings, but doubt that the Ruger would perform as well as yours or mine. You have a quality set up even if it is "ugly."

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
...I have slung up and used the Ching Sling - they are nice. ...I'm sure a lot of folks will find mine to be the ugliest rifle they've ever seen and ridicule the scope I have on it ...

Hey DJ, When you decide to Sling the rifle over your shoulder, do you undo the middle Sling Retainer? And is it the Flush-with-the-Stock Style?

The Scope looks great to me, but a bit more expense then I need.

You don't have to undo the sling to either shoulder or shoot with it. They are the "T" type flush mounts, I haven't taken the sling on or off for several years.

FWIW I bought that scope for $300 LESS than the last Leupold I bought. I found a deal on a couple of them for under $1k each..............................DJ

Words of wisdom??? For every doer there are four or more EXPERT critics and nay sayers. roger

I've had Steyr Scouts in both 376 and 308. The 376 is a handful, but a great way to pack significant punch in a small rifle. I usually set them up with a receiver-mounted scope, but a forwarded mounted "Scout" scope is useful for shots at moving game, like Hog culling. I find Steyrs to be considerably more accurate than most other factory rifles. Hey, if you don't like the concept, that's fine. I like mine.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
They are the "T" type flush mounts, ...

Hey DJ, If you turn the "T" in the Retainer Slot 90deg, is that all it takes to remove it, or is there some kind of Latch?

Inside the swivel stud there is a spring loaded cylinder that you have to press in while turning the "T" 90 deg. This holds them securely..........................DJ

Thanks DJ.

Back before they made "Locking" Sling Swivels, I had a rifle or two fall while doing some tree climbing. Back then, the Sling could somehow Twist enough to force the Retainer open and a bit more movement caused the end to slide out of the Sling Stud - then down the rifle would go.

I modified 4-5 Swivels so they were held together with a Small Cap-Screw. Only problem then was that you needed an Allen Wrench to remove or reposition the Sling Swivel.

Once the LocKing Style came out, I moved to them on most of my Slings. But, I always wondered about the Flush Mounted "T-Style".

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Thanks DJ.

Back before they made "Locking" Sling Swivels, I had a rifle or two fall while doing some tree climbing. Back then, the Sling could somehow Twist enough to force the Retainer open and a bit more movement caused the end to slide out of the Sling Stud - then down the rifle would go.

I modified 4-5 Swivels so they were held together with a Small Cap-Screw. Only problem then was that you needed an Allen Wrench to remove or reposition the Sling Swivel.

Once the LocKing Style came out, I moved to them on most of my Slings. But, I always wondered about the Flush Mounted "T-Style".

Thanks.

A far better idea is to not climb trees with your rifle!

Unload the rifle, tie paracord, climb the tree and haul the rifle up.

I thought you have more sense than to climb a tree carrying a rifle. Nothing but bad can happen when you do.................................DJ

quote:

Unload the rifle, tie paracord, climb the tree and haul the rifle up.

The last rifle I dropped was because I tried to pull it up with a "Synthetic Cord".

It was a tree made just for comfort and easy climbing. Didn't even need a Stand in it. Big well placed limbs to sit on and perfect limbs to place your feet on. One yard due North of the Tree was the Santee-Cooper Game Reserve and 5yds due South of it was a 900 acre Bean Field. Lots of Deer and Unlimited Doe Tags.

So, I go to the tree, climb up and begin raising the rifle. It would begin "bouncing" due to the Synthetic Cord having a bit of stretch, so I would STOP. Then begin again. Just as I reached for the barrel, the Cord snapped and down it went.

Fortunately the rifle was slightly barrel heavy and rolled over 180deg in the 28ft drop to land Muzzle down in the mud and roots. Perfect because that was the exact direction of Recoil. Imperfect because I DID NOT have a Cleaning Rod with me.

I'd ridden to the field with my buddy John and while he was wearing them out on the other end of the field, I got to enjoy the sunrise along with maybe 90 Deer on my end of the field.

Never used a Cord, Rope, Cable, etc., to carry my rifle up after that again. Always slung it barrel down and went right on up.

So, for those of you who prefer to Pull one up, I'm all for ""YOU"" doing it - it is just that First Hand Experience has taught me differently.

The only problem is that if I fall out of the tree, I'd much rather fall on my ass instead of my rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
The last rifle I dropped was because I tried to pull it up with a "Synthetic Cord".

It was a tree made just for comfort and easy climbing. Didn't even need a Stand in it. Big well placed limbs to sit on and perfect limbs to place your feet on. One yard due North of the Tree was the Santee-Cooper Game Reserve and 5yds due South of it was a 900 acre Bean Field. Lots of Deer and Unlimited Doe Tags.

So, I go to the tree, climb up and begin raising the rifle. It would begin "bouncing" due to the Synthetic Cord having a bit of stretch, so I would STOP. Then begin again. Just as I reached for the barrel, the Cord snapped and down it went.

Fortunately the rifle was slightly barrel heavy and rolled over 180deg in the 28ft drop to land Muzzle down in the mud and roots. Perfect because that was the exact direction of Recoil. Imperfect because I DID NOT have a Cleaning Rod with me.

I'd ridden to the field with my buddy John and while he was wearing them out on the other end of the field, I got to enjoy the sunrise along with maybe 90 Deer on my end of the field.

Never used a Cord, Rope, Cable, etc., to carry my rifle up after that again. Always slung it barrel down and went right on up.

So, for those of you who prefer to Pull one up, I'm all for ""YOU"" doing it - it is just that First Hand Experience has taught me differently.

Again a far simpler and better solution is to use better cord and put electricions tape across the muzzle. Either would have saved your hunt.

It's kinda sad when people who should know better think that they have enough experience to avoid basic safety rules........................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
...put electricions tape across the muzzle. Either would have saved your hunt.

So you think Tape would have kept the mud out after dropping 28 feet.

quote:

It's kinda sad when people who should know better think that they have enough experience to avoid basic safety rules....DJ

How is it Safer pulling the rifle up through limbs 28 feet with a Cord? It sure looks like you want to argue over ANYTHING. Fortunately I'm so amiable that just isn't possible.

458 lott
458 lott
458 lott
375 h&h
carries ammo in the stock

some are ugly some not so much they work very well for their purpose

djpaintles, what is that device halfway down the length of the fluted barrel on your very business-like scout rifle? Is that some sort of movable weight for tuning barrel vibrations?