What's the opinion you fellows have on these calibers? I'm trying to decide witch to purchase. To be used for elk and plains game hunt in '07. I'm leaning toward the 300 because it might be more versatile. On the other hand I ran into good deal on a Sako 338 with a VX II 3X9 for 900.00. What do you fellows think? Thanks James

Go with the .338 WinMag if you if you are not terrible sensitive to recoil and are not looking at ranges over 350 yards. A 250 gr Nosler Partition moving at 2660 fps, zeroed at 300 will have a 5.4" high impact at 100 and a 5.1" drop at 350. Good minute of Elk.

The .338 WinMag's larger cross sectional area will transfer energy to the target better than the .300 WinMag at any distance and the Nosler will give very good penetration.

I find the .300s have a sharper recoil than the .338 WinMag as well.

I like the 9,3x62 and killed 5 animals with it in Africa in 2004. Did not recover a single bullet ... but the ranges were all under 200 yards.

You don't need a .375 as a plains game rifle, but the larger calibers certainly don't hurt to have.

I've owned both and on the same exact gun. I'd go with the .338. The.338 will match the speed of a .300 with a 180 grain bullet, only with a 210 gr bullet. My A-Bolt gives me 3050 fps with a 210 Partition from a 26" barrel. The same gun in .300 would push a 180 gr to the same 3050 fps. The big difference?? The .300 kicks harder than the .338. My.338 would drop only 14" at 400 yards with the above load. That means at 400 yards put the crosshair on the elks back and he's dead !!! I will never sell my .338 !!

My vote would be for the 300 Win Mag. I've used both in Africa and I find the 300 Win Mag to be a little more shootable at longer ranges. Your actual mileage may vary.

I've carried the 338 twice as my light rifle when on DG and PG combo hunts. I like the idea of a light rifle that's got a little more oomph when in dangerous game country. I'll probably use it again under the same circumstances.

I've also used my 300 Mags on combo hunts. A 200 grain TSX or A-Frame is going to exit almost every plainsgame you shoot. I couldn't tell much difference at all in the way my plainsgame reacted when hit by a 300 or a 338. A good hit with either one put them down easily, and a poor hit with either one and they ran. For whatever reason, I shoot my 300 better and that's an important criteria for me.

It's a close call, but if I could only have one rifle (and it's use would be as you described) I'd opt for the 300. I'd never argue the point with someone who prefered the 338 though, we're lucky to have them both to choose from.

YOU have a lot more bullet choices in a 300 Win Mag...

However, you don't need a lot of bullet choices with a 338 Mag... they will ALL do one heck of a job on some pretty big sized critters...

I think the 300 is more of an accurate round.. but if you are going after Elk etc... you don't need varmint accuracy...I don't follow foot pounds as an indicator of lethality... but a 338 grain slug will sure do some heavy duty penetrating and peripheral damage along the way!

I own both....

cheers
seafire

The .300winmag is a good hammer, the .338winmag is a bigger good hammer. It really depends on what & how you hunt but I like the .338winmag. For shots out to 350yds or so, it just hits harder. The only thing I've seen kill bigger game faster is a .375h&h. Either will work well, if you are not a handloader, you might lean to the .300winmag. If you handload, you can put together some nice deer/antelope loads or moose/big bear stuff in the .338winmag.

My advice, FWIW, would be to go with the .338 Win. Mag.

It is my absolute favorite caliber for everything - excepting only cape buffalo, hippopotamus and elephant. Also rhinoceros, but I doubt I will ever hunt one of those.

Come to think of it, with Woodleigh solids, I'd feel very well armed even against the big, thick skinned exceptions noted above.

It's just a great, hard-hitting, game-killing cartridge. Winchester got that one dead-on right.

The 300 Mag is one of my favorite cartridges.
I have been to Africa twice and I am going back this OCT. Ui have used a 9,3x74R double both times for my "light rifle".

300 vs 338???, it would depend on where and what type of game I was shooting.

If it would be mostly smaller deer sized plains game at a distance, the 300 would be the best choice, however if zebra, and eland were on the list and most shots would be at bushveld distances, then a 338 might be the best choice.

For some years i have ben using 300winmag with 220grains winchester silvertip.

1 trip to Namibis
Results
10 antelopes, srom steinbock to kudu, distances from 40 to 250 meters, all droped within 20 meters 1 shot each

1 trip to australia
Results
23 boars 8 horses and 6 donkeys 4 kangorooes 2 dingos.
only 1 boar went 60meters the rest dropped within 10meters, only 1 required 2 bullits.

So for me this caliber is acceptable, no need for anny woodobullits

If you think of the 300 Winchester magnum as the 30-06s big brother, than the 338 Winchester is the 30-06s neanderthal cousin! Using 180 and 250 grain bullets respectivly, the 300 and 338 Winchesters bring about 25% more striking energy to bear then does the 30-06, however the greater bullet weight and some 20% more cross section give the 338 an undeniable advantage. So when the game is big, tough, and absolutely has to have a hole plumb thru it, the choice is clear, 338 Winchester.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
For some years i have ben using 300winmag with 220grains winchester silvertip.

1 trip to Namibis
Results
10 antelopes, srom steinbock to kudu, distances from 40 to 250 meters, all droped within 20 meters 1 shot each

1 trip to australia
Results
23 boars 8 horses and 6 donkeys 4 kangorooes 2 dingos.
only 1 boar went 60meters the rest dropped within 10meters, only 1 required 2 bullits.

So for me this caliber is acceptable, no need for anny woodobullits

Did your horses and donkeys make it to any record book of big game ?

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
If you think of the 300 Winchester magnum as the 30-06s big brother, than the 338 Winchester is the 30-06s neanderthal cousin! Using 180 and 250 grain bullets respectivly, the 300 and 338 Winchesters bring about 25% more striking energy to bear then does the 30-06, however the greater bullet weight and some 20% more cross section give the 338 an undeniable advantage. So when the game is big, tough, and absolutely has to have a hole plumb thru it, the choice is clear, 338 Winchester.

Could you explain this to me please.
I cant see where going from .308 to .338 is 20% more cross section?

I have an almost matched set of Winchester M70s, one a .300 Win. mag, and the other the .338 Win. mag. The two rifles weigh within about two ounces of each other witht he .300 being the heavier of the two rifles. When shooting 200 gr. bullets from the .300 and 210 gr. bullets from the .338, the recoil from the .300 is greater than from the .338. Both rifles are about 8 pounds ready to go. Both have synthetic stock and 26" barrels, Leupold 3x9 vari-X II scopes and I use the same sling on either rifle.
I think the .300 might be slightly more accurate, but considering what either rifle is to be used on, the difference is negligable. If I had to pick on one for the conditions stated, most likely I'd go with the .338. Ain't no such thing as overkill,and in some elk hunting areas, "Brer Griz" also call the area home. I'd just feel a bit more comfortable with the .338 and a 250 gr. Nosler partition under those circumstances.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by bobby van der Putten:

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
For some years i have ben using 300winmag with 220grains winchester silvertip.

1 trip to Namibis
Results
10 antelopes, srom steinbock to kudu, distances from 40 to 250 meters, all droped within 20 meters 1 shot each

1 trip to australia
Results
23 boars 8 horses and 6 donkeys 4 kangorooes 2 dingos.
only 1 boar went 60meters the rest dropped within 10meters, only 1 required 2 bullits.

So for me this caliber is acceptable, no need for anny woodobullits

Did your horses and donkeys make it to any record book of big game ?

No they didnt make it anywhere
But the agrement was that for ewery 1 hors or donky that was taken as pestcontroll i could hunt 2 boars without any trophyfee

Jarrod,

If you divide the cross sectional area of a .338 projectile by the cross sectional area of a .308 you get 1.204 and some change.

Sure looks like 20% to me.

I don't like either cartridge so my answer is neither of them. However I much prefer .30 caliber. It's just way more fun to shoot.

So get some .30 caliber magnum first and then get a 338 later if you want to.

As you can see from the replies, either is highly respected and will do the job.

If that Sako is a nice one, then by all means buy it!

As to the theoretical difference in calibers, well, I have both (and both rifles are Sakos). I will hunt Colorado for bull elk next month and my choice is the .338 with 225 grain Nosler Partitions. I am planning to hunt plains game in Namibia in 07 and am planning to take the .300 with 180 Nosler Partitions.

As you can see, if the quarry is solely something the size of elk or larger, then I think the .338 has some advantages. However, if the game is mixed bag, ranging from the sized of small whitetails up to moose, then the faster (and lighter kicking, despite subjective testimony) .300 is a bit more versatile.

Provided the rifle you buy shoots as it should, either will do you just fine. But as Savage 99 alludes to, a .30-06 will also work without a hitch.

From what I have seen on moose there isn't that much difference between the 180-200gr bullets in a 300 win and 210-225gr bullets in the 338 when it comes to killing power. To get a noticeable step up in whack with a 338 cal bullet you have to step up to the 338 RUM/340 Weatherby or 338-378. WHen you start pushing those 225gr bullets at over 3100fps and 250s at 3000 that they hit much harder. Even then they both kill a moose very dead. I like the 300 win for the uses you stated.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Jarrod,

If you divide the cross sectional area of a .338 projectile by the cross sectional area of a .308 you get 1.204 and some change.

Sure looks like 20% to me.

I agree that the 20 % more cross section is an accurate statement but not that that makes it a better round. The 300 Mag with the good bullets is all that's needed and if you couldn't do it with that you really needed the old .375 H&H.

The .375 is close to 50 % greater cross section. That is of course if it means anything.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Jarrod,

If you divide the cross sectional area of a .338 projectile by the cross sectional area of a .308 you get 1.204 and some change.

Sure looks like 20% to me.

We that's true but now look at the BC's and you nearly get the inverse. As high as the cross sectional areas are concerned I'll take a higher BC any day.

Hey Guys,

I was just answering the comment about "how do you get 20%?"

I have and use a Springfield in 308 Norma Mag, an M70 in 300 Win Mag, and a pre-64 M70 in .338 Win Mag as well as larger rifles (9,3x62, 9,3x74R, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, and .470 NE). My own belief here goes something like this:

1) About 400 yards is about as far as I'll take a poke.

2) I can live with the trajectory of a .338 WinMag (at least the one I have which holds about 2" at 300 yards). If I need more energy at the target or a better trajectory I'll go to a 350 gr Barnes X at 2750 fps from a .416 Rigby rather than an "Ultramag."

3) The .338 does transfer energy better than a .308 and has good penetration and I'll tend to use it for larger animals, animals that bite or in tougher terrain (because of the nice rifle I own).

All of this aside ... both the .300 Win Mag and the .338 Win Mag are fine calibers. Shoot'm both and buy what you like.

I have both calibers in Beretta Matos. If I were to lose both and had to replace them, I would replace the 300 win mag first. It is more versatile and will do the same job.

Of course I would be looking to replace the 338 as soon as possible.

Stonecreek is right, in identical guns the 338 does kick harder and depending upon stock design, the recoil is borderline unmanageable. I reload for 2 ea 338's and 8 ea. 300's. In my Mato 338 the stock design makes it manageable, in a friend's Sako AV 338 the recoil was so unpleasant for him and me that he put a muzzle brake on it. All the 300's shoot just fine, 2 Sakos, 1 Ruger, 1 Remington, 2 Brownings, 1 Kimber (WSM) and my Mato.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
Stonecreek is right, in identical guns the 338 does kick harder and depending upon stock design, the recoil is borderline unmanageable.

Actually, it was stated by myself and others with identical rifles that the .300 recoils harder , NOT the .338 . A .300 has a slightly larger case, spews more "ejecta" which is figured into recoil, and has a smaller bore which contributes to recoil velocity. You know, the smaller pipe/higher pressure thing.

Let me start by thanking mstarling for beating me to the math, thanx bud! Now on to guns...
I have owned one 300 Win, and you won't hear me badmouth it, but I do like to tease my friends about its short neck. My current 300 of choice is a vintage M70 in 300 H&H, and it too is a great hunting round in its own right. Nuff said, I like 30 calibre.
As for the 338, I'm now on my third one, a Sako AV, so obviously I like this calibre too. Of the three, none have kicked so hard that it was unmanageable, and having shot my buddy's synthetic M700 in 375 H&H, believe me, I know unmanageable! Excluding the "X" bullet, all three of my 338s have been accurate with just about every bullet weight I have tried, and as a bonus not the least bit finicky to load for. In 18 years I have learned this much about the 338: it has a trajectory very much like the 30-06; it is at its best with 250 grain bullets.
When all is said and done, I believe the 338 is a more well rounded hunting cartridge than most give it credit for.

quote:

Originally posted by bowhuntrrl:
Actually, it was stated by myself and others with identical rifles that the .300 recoils harder , NOT the .338 . A .300 has a slightly larger case, spews more "ejecta" which is figured into recoil, and has a smaller bore which contributes to recoil velocity. You know, the smaller pipe/higher pressure thing.

Urban Myth read the numbers and wheep.

Recoil

To me, I'd go the .338, and I believe the 20% increase in bore diameter is significant. I can't see a logical reason that a 20% increase in area when fired at the same velocity won't mean more tissue destruction. I can't tell a noticeable difference in recoil between any .300 and the .338. I've always thought bullet choice is an overrated reason to choose a caliber unless you only are going to own one rifle, my wife can vouch for the fact that that's not me. I tend to never use more than two bullets in amy one caliber, such as .375-270 and 300, .338 210 and 250, 7mm 140 and 160. The .338 is just a .300 with some extra horsepower for the big stuff and no negatives.

Let's look at the numbers of rifles with scope and slings shooting hunting loads

338 Mato / 9 lbs 5 oz / 225 TSX / 75.5 gr RL19 / 2844 fps - 34 ft lbs recoil, 15 fps recoil velocity
300 Mato / 9 lbs 8 oz / 180 TSX / 76.5 gr RL22 / 3123 fps - 32 ft lbs recoil, 14 fps recoil velocity

338 Mato / 9 lbs 5 oz / 250 gr TSX / 75.5 gr RL22 / 2758 fps - 37 ft lbs recoil, 16 fps recoil velocity
300 Mato / 9 lbs 8 oz / 200 gr Accubond / 72 gr RL22 / 2886 fps - 29 ft lbs recoil, 14 fps recoil velocity

as calculated using

http://sst.benchrest.com/recoil.html

I don't know about "ejecta", it wasn't listed as a requirement for calcualtion. The powder capacity and usage was approximately the same. These are loads that were most accurate in my rifles. If you want to use 78.5 gr H1000 in the 300 win mag 200 gr Accubond load then the recoil would be 31 ft lbs.

Most people expect the 338 to recoil more so the actual recoil might seem to be less because of those expectations.

The 300 win mag will carry the same energy and shoot flatter by 7 or 8 inches at 500 yards than the 338 , but that is just a matter of aiming point correction.

Anything that can't be killed with a 30-06 can't be killed with a 300WinMag either.

All the 300Win Mag is is another 30-06 with another 50-100yds of effective range (depending on bullet weight)

If there are things around that can kick scratch or bite I'd consider the 338WinMag a minimum.

If you can't kill it with a 225gr partition or TSX out of a 338Win you probably need a 375H&H

Is there a greater selection of bullets available for the 300Win? sure there is. But most of those bullets are
of limited utility.

With your choice of a 225gr partition or a 225gr Barnes TSX I can't imagine what else you could possibly need for the 338Mag....



AllanD

I have taken my 300 win mag to Africa twice and have never lost any plains game shot. If going for DG, some countries I believe require a min. of 375. So my choice is the 300 win mag for PG.

J C

IMO, this is a better choice if buying a 338

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976761827.htm

Dakota controlled round feed action, Lothar Walther barrel, HS Precision stock and Shilen trigger. Mine is fantastic and like I said seems to kick less than that Sako.

Accurate too



or this one although the Kimber would kick a lot more because it is a lot lighter

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976747090.htm

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
J C

IMO, this is a better choice if buying a 338

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976761827.htm

Dakota controlled round feed action, Lothar Walther barrel, HS Precision stock and Shilen trigger. Mine is fantastic and like I said seems to kick less than that Sako.

Accurate too

Slightly off topic
Are all 3 groups shot with same point of aim, and with no sight ajustment

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

Anything that can't be killed with a 30-06 can't be killed with a 300WinMag either.

AllanD

Anything that can't be killed with a 270 can't be killed with a 30-06 either.

Anything that can't be killed with a 243 can't be killed with a 270 either.

Anything that can't be killed with a 22-250 can't be killed with a 243 either.

Anyhting that can't be killed with a 22 magnum can't be killed with a 22-250 either.

Hell J C, just buy a 22 magnum!

quote:

All the 300Win Mag is is another 30-06 with another 50-100yds of effective range (depending on bullet weight)

Shooting a 180 gr TSX at 500' altitude 70 degree day the following is according to a ballistics program, not someone's biased belief:

30-06 @ 2825 fps drops below 2000 fpe at around 385 yds
300 win mag @ 3125 fps drops below 2000 fpe at around 565 yds

That's 180 yd advantage and in my biased opinion that is almost 200 yds !

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

Slightly off topic
Are all 3 groups shot with same point of aim, and with no sight ajustment

Same point of aim, but I move the scope adjusments when trying other bullets. And they were shot some time apart, as much as a year. The one on the right I had just previously shot some 250 gr bullets and had not readjusted it back.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Johnson:

quote:

Originally posted by bowhuntrrl:
Actually, it was stated by myself and others with identical rifles that the .300 recoils harder , NOT the .338 . A .300 has a slightly larger case, spews more "ejecta" which is figured into recoil, and has a smaller bore which contributes to recoil velocity. You know, the smaller pipe/higher pressure thing.

Urban Myth read the numbers and wheep.

Recoil

Again, I beg to differ as did one other. My basis is what my shoulder and body tell me. Two IDENTICAL rifles with two IDENTICAL stocks, one a .300 Win. mag., the otrher in .338 Win. mag., using bullets of either identical weight or very close to identical weigh. I have these two IDENTICAL rifles and the .338 mag. does have LESS felt recoil than the .300.
I do not give one healthy rat's as what the numbers say. They're fine in THEORY and give one a place to start. What I do care about is what my shoulder and body tell me, and in the case of MY two rifles, the .338 shooting either identical or similar in weight bullets to the .300 kicks less. I also said that when switching to the 250 gr. bullets in the .338 mag., that the recoil was greater than the .300. I'd be willing to bet that if there is/was a 250 gr. bullet for the .300 mag., that if loaded to at or near the same velocity as the .338 mag., again felt recoil just might once again favor the .338 Mag., even if only slightly.
It's the venturi effect, and I'm not all that sure that "formulas" can take that into efect all that well.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

Slightly off topic
Are all 3 groups shot with same point of aim, and with no sight ajustment

Same point of aim, but I move the scope adjusments when trying other bullets. And they were shot some time apart, as much as a year. The one on the right I had just previously shot some 250 gr bullets and had not readjusted it back.

My interest is if it moves poi sidewards when using diferent loads, and if so, what should cause it?

Nothing unusual about the POI moving, probably caused by differing barrel exit points. I can shoot 270 Hornadys and 270 North Forks at the same velocity with the same powder and they are about as far apart as his.

James Cardwell: I just want to let you know that your posted inquiry (300 Win Mag vs. 338 Win Mag) is THE number one topic of conjecture, firearms wise, here in Montana!
I have heard this discussion 1,000 times if I have heard it once!
I have heard persuasive testimonials in both directions COUNTLESS times as well!
Personally I am recoil sensitive and sold the one 300 Winchester Magnum I used afield - after one season of Antelope, Deer and Elk Hunting!
It kicked me so hard I had bloodshot down to my elbow after one 30 round range session (pre-64 Winchester Model 70!)!
I find the recoil from the 338 a little less menacing.
I have not used either of them enough to give you an informed opinion based on experience lethality wise.
I have seen lots of Elk killed by my partners with both of these cartridges and do wish to relay this humble observation - they both will kill Elk, easily!
James I would not hesitate to make an offer on that Sako 338! If you could get it for $850.00 or $825.00 or have them throw in some guncases and slings and ammo or whatever you would end up with a fine Rifle at an excellent price!
Best of luck to you on your search for a new Rifle AND on your 2,007 Hunts!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by jstevens:
Nothing unusual about the POI moving, probably caused by differing barrel exit points. I can shoot 270 Hornadys and 270 North Forks at the same velocity with the same powder and they are about as far apart as his.

I ame aware of the differenting exitpoint. But isnt it a sighn of having a rifle that is unpredictably, without the ability to deliver consisten accuracy(same poi every day with no efect of variating temperature, humidity and degre of lubrication in bore and chamber)

I have a cruel test for customers having that type of rifles
Take 6 rounds of ammo that you think is accurate in that rifel.
1 rd you place along a coolingelement
1 rd you place on your bare skinn under your cloth
1 rd you vhipe with a very thin layer of oil or wather
3 rds you use directly from the box

Using a stable rest, you start fiering the 3 rds from the box, then the hot one, then the cold one, and finaly the oiled one.

Most customers vith rifles that have unpredictably poi , when changing loads, are wery easy to make a deal with after performing the above test.
Because they sudently realize that their rifle is worth a s**t when it comes to reliable accuracy.
Just remember that this test do not include anything that is unnormal when hunting with a rifle during the season.

I have used both and I am a fan of the .338. Bullet weights from 160gr to 300gr. That handles anything God's earth can throw at ya. The serious question is, can you shoot through the recoil? Not meant to be insulting, but if this is an issue, a 9.3x62 or 35 whelen, or 350 rem. mag, would all be better choices. And buy that Sako, what are you waiting for?

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
J C

IMO, this is a better choice if buying a 338

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976761827.htm

Dakota controlled round feed action, Lothar Walther barrel, HS Precision stock and Shilen trigger. Mine is fantastic and like I said seems to kick less than that Sako.

Accurate too



or this one although the Kimber would kick a lot more because it is a lot lighter

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976747090.htm

Some SOB already grabbed that one.