I've got a lead on a Husky 1600. I'm wondering what loads for modern powders are out there.

366 Hope your deal on a 1600 Husqvarna works out. I have one and it is a great rifle. It is accurate with all the bullets I have tried but the 225 gr Barnes TSX really group well with IMR 4350. I would think some new powders such as RL 17 and the newer IMR 4451 would deliver more than 4350 can .With the difficulty in obtaining components (especially 35 cal bullets) it is hard to do very much load development work with odd calibres like the 358 Norma. There is not a lot of support from the powder and bullet manufactures for calibres such as the big Swede. I had a 358 built on a P-14 action that would take several grs more powder than my Husqvarna will so I would suggest you work up carefully. I tried some loads with RL17 as follows. Norma cases, CCI 250 primers and TSX 225 gr bullets. 70 grs of RL 17 was max in my rifle and very accurate. I did not have time to chronograph . Using the Sierra 225 gr bullet 72 grs of RL17 was max. I seated both bullets out as far as the magazine would allow. Would suggest you start at 65 or 66 grs and work up carefully. Let me know how your test loads work out if you get that 358.

Thanks snowman!

The 225 TSX was "the" bullet I was rootin for.

No modern loads here,,

Loaded up 50 250 NP & 50 250gr Horn Spt a couple of days ago with 73.5grs of H-4350 w/ fed 215

Always works fine here on moose and brown bears!

Jim

I have boxes of Norma 250 factory. For a light load I have some 200gr Hornady over RL15. Haven't tried RL17 and don't really care for Barnes.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
I have boxes of Norma 250 factory. For a light load I have some 200gr Hornady over RL15. Haven't tried RL17 and don't really care for Barnes.

Funny you should mention Barnes,, I was talking with a friend last night who killed a moose and said the Barnes just penciled through and of the 2 he recovered just the tips had opened up a little bit! Yes the moose was dead,dead by attrition. I've drifted away from Barnes myself the last 15yrs too.

366torque,

Maybe your photo is old, but it's the first time I've seen it. I busted a gut. Thanks for posting.

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:
366torque,

Maybe your photo is old, but it's the first time I've seen it. I busted a gut. Thanks for posting.

You're welcome! That is why I posted it.

Anyone try the Woodleigh bullets specifically the 250 PP SN?

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
Funny you should mention Barnes,, I was talking with a friend last night who killed a moose and said the Barnes just penciled through and of the 2 he recovered just the tips had opened up a little bit! Yes the moose was dead,dead by attrition. I've drifted away from Barnes myself the last 15yrs too.

More information is needed on these kinds of statements with monometal bullets.

GSC has long claimed that when impacts are over 2600fps a monometal bullet may have its nose "explode" and shed the nose petals, which do some collateral damage. However, the resulting blunt cylinder does massive damage and leaves a smallish exit hole on the rubbery offhide. Such a bullet has a smallish entry hole and exit hole but does not "pencil through." It may turn the lungs into slush.

If you have recovered the animal, a fuller autopsy is necessary in order to present an accurate picture.

Yes, this is a different kind of technology than the old cup and core bullets, damage patterns for rounded mushroom surfaces and 110% flatnose (the resulting flat nose is often a tad bigger than the calibre diameter) surfaces are quite different. Nosler partitions sometimes worked this way, too. For the last 25 years hunters have been puzzled by one-shot Dead-Right-There performances where the bullet does not hit the nervous system, does massive damage, and leaves a small exit hole. A pleasant mystery.

PS: As for 'just the tips had opened a little bit', that is a very different phenomenon, usually relating to very low impact velocity under 1900-1700fps (whether squibb load or extreme distance), or else having a bullet tumbling into the target. Sometimes hollow-points of strong bullets have filled up and act like semi-spitzer solids, though this last phenomenon is not limited to monometals.

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
I have boxes of Norma 250 factory. For a light load I have some 200gr Hornady over RL15. Haven't tried RL17 and don't really care for Barnes.

Funny you should mention Barnes,, I was talking with a friend last night who killed a moose and said the Barnes just penciled through and of the 2 he recovered just the tips had opened up a little bit! Yes the moose was dead,dead by attrition. I've drifted away from Barnes myself the last 15yrs too.

Waterrat Would you care to share a little more information about this moose your friend shot? What calibre of rifle was he using? What weight of bullet? Muzzle velocity? Range the moose was at? Was the moose broadside or....? I have shot 6or 7 elk with TSX or TTSX bullets along with a few moose a couple black bears and several dozen deer. I have recovered exactly one bullet (a 130 gr TSX from a large Sask buck out of a 270 Wby). All others have been complete pass throughs. No they did not have huge wound channels and dozens of lbs of bloodshot meat. Calibre sized hole going in, in almost every case finely blended lungs and a smallish exit hole of approx. 2 inchs. The only exception was a black bear I shot with my 416 Rem and 300 gr X bullets. Through both sholders and I could put my fist in the exit hole on the off shoulder. You did not mention where in the body your friend placed all these bullets ? Could be they were loaded to minimal velocity or he was shooting at extended range. If someone is shooting a mono metal bullet and expecting the same type of wound you get from a cup and core bullet they are likely to be disappointed or confused at least. It wouldn't matter what brand of mono metal either, The Nosler E-tip the Hornady GMX or the Barnes X all work great especially at elevated velocities.

Well, the original X's were also known to occasionally do just that.


I have had great success with the 338 TTSX, but I did have a box of 375 X bullets that failed to do much other than impersonate solids.

Concerning the poor X performance,most of our conversation was about mining and the moose was just thrown in,,it was .3 miles (500+yds or so) and he was shooting a 300 win mag. Probably a 180gr as that's what he usually shot,that's all I know,,he's good outdoorsman so I trust his judgement.

My take on the Barnes is they work fine when a wgt lighter is used but they are inconsistant at longer ranges. I have a couple with just the tips opened up from a moose that had to stopped at 300 yds or so. Both bullets were in the backstraps,shot from above and from the rear. My wife and I each have a rifle we use with the TSX now but haven't killed anything with them yet.

quote:

I tend to use more than enough gun

Yes, enough gun.
I would accept that a 300 is enough, but it's only a 30 cal.
The 358 Norma of the thread has always sounded nice even though I've only used 338's and 375's myself.

Now a 416 Rigby with 350gn TTSX's at 2800 is my idea of using enough gun. Sort of fell into this for North America since I wanted to have a rifle for testing loads and shooting a rifle that we have in Africa. I hope to test some 330 GSC's this year, too. Probably at 2850+fps. The nose shouldn't have any trouble opening up at any range out to 600 yards. After that, well, I've never hunted over 400 yards anyway. I would need to choose a higher BC bullet, the TTSX would be good for 700 yards.

sounds like I'll have it in week and a half or so.

366,, The 358 Norma is one of my favorites,,you'll love it.

I wasn't trying to bash Barnes off the planet,but just a couple instances. Hopefully our weather cools off and I can get to the other end of the Lake and try out some TSX's on a couple of caribou.

I have a thing for the 358 norma too, but don't (yet) have one. I do have the Norma loading manual and it has quite a few loads in it, but none for Barnes/

Take a look at this:

http://www.barnesbullets.com/c...358_Norma_Magnum.pdf

It's from the older book, and I'm not sure about how the TTSx will compare to the older XFB, but if there is any correlation, I load my 338 with a 225 TTSX using the identical recipe (IMR 4350) for the 225 GR XFB listed. The 358 Norma might yield a similar result.

let us know what you find.

Thanks Baxter!

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
366,, The 358 Norma is one of my favorites,,you'll love it.

I wasn't trying to bash Barnes off the planet,but just a couple instances. Hopefully our weather cools off and I can get to the other end of the Lake and try out some TSX's on a couple of caribou.

I'm also going to have a go with the Woodleigh 250 grain PP's.

Very smooth bolt and the Nickel scope is very clear.
The claw mount system is to die for!
I am going with the Woodleigh PP 275 grain boolit.

That's a beauty!

I finally emailed Woodleigh bullets, health issues. Their response was within hours, very impressive.

quote:

Here is the data we have for this combination;
358 Norma Mag, 275 gr PP SN;
H4895 61 to 66 gr 2450 to 2635 fps
Reloder 19 78 to 82 gr 2600 to 2750 fps
IMR4320 59 to 65 gr 2290 to 2560 fps
IMR4350 68 to 76 gr 2400 to 2680 fps
Hope this works out for you, let’s know.