My Kimber experiment has now ended with the sale of the rifle.

My question is what manufacturer makes a light sporting rifle in standard calibers that is accurate and consistent right out of the box? Please answer from practical experience and not what you have read or what happened to a friend.

Have Lex Webernick make you a rifle. He'll be a Dallas if you attend the DSC. Or look for a used HS Precision SPL. If you're staying in the Kimber price range, you may get a shooter, or you may not, as you apparently found out.

I just got a new Remington mountain ss in 308 that is nice and light also accurate.. or you can try a model 7 or a used titanium model 700

Got a Rem XCR II in 375 H&H that weighed 6 1/2 lbs out of the box, very accurate. Smaller calibers should weigh a bit less.

light factory rifles can be hit or miss. I accuracy is your primary concern, build a custom. Mine is a hair over 5.5lbs scoped and will shoot cloverleafs at 100yds....if you let the barrel cool between shots. In my own experience with light factory rifles, my money would be on a browning micro or the savage 111 lightweight hunter.

In the price range of a Kimber...go for a Colt Light Rifle. .270, 30-06, 7mm Mag and 300 Win Mag were the calibers available in this rifle. A quality lightweight rifle for under 750.00 NIB. I have one in .270 and it was a great investment. I also have two of the Weatherby Ultra Lightweights in 30-06 and 338-06 that are equally nice, accurate rifles for under $1100. In the custom range I have a Mark Bansner in 35 Whelen and a Match Grade Arms in 375 H&H that weighs under 5lbs. with a 26" barrel and brake. Both of those shoot very well too...but at a much higher cost. The Colt is clearly the biggest bang for the buck though. Well, Melvin Forbes of ULA fame designed it for Colt, so what would you expect..but it didn't cost $2500 like the ULA rifles.

I have had Winchester M-70 Featherweights and Remington M-700 Mountain Rifles which were extremely accurate out of the box. All were 270s and all grouped preferred handloads under 1" for 3 shot groups at 100 yds.

I have a Remington 700 DM Mountain Rifle in 280. It is the most accurate factory rifle I own. It shoots box ammo at an 1" at 100yds and I have gotten some handloads to under that. The light contour barrel heats up quick causing the groups to open up, but if I take a few minutes between shots to let the barrel cool completly, it will return some great results. Other than adjusting the trigger, it is completly factory.

5 shot groups give you a more accurate assessment of a rifle's accuracy better than 3 shot. There are very few rifles out of the box that don't need some kind of touch up, regardless of manufacture, caliber, weight etc.

Boliep, please share the short version of your Kimber experiment. It might save me some grief in the future!

Thanks,

friar

Sorry to hear about your experience with a Kimber.

I must have hit the lottery with my Montana's a 308 early production two position safety that would shoot cheap Remington factory loaded Core-Loc 150gr. into nice 3/4" groups.

A Montana 257 Roberts that took a little load development that will shoot 115gr. Nosler Partitions or Ballistic tips into 3/8" groups. It shot old Barnes 100gr. X bullets into 1/2" groups until I ran out of them. One thing about the gun is with less powder I can get the same velocity and no pressure signs than a Remington 700 or a Winchester pre-64 in 257 Roberts.

Another Montana 308 I picked up cheap to build a 358 Win., but shot one of my off the shelve 150gr. Nosler Partition loads in to some nice 3/4" groups with its 20" barrel. That I cannot bring my self to re-barrel it.

I also have a Montana 325 WSM that was bought for a build cheap that has been never shot, will maybe some day I should shoot it, before I switch barrels. But how lucky can I be to get 4 Kimbers to shoot very good. And never spending more than $800 on any of them.

I have a weatherby UL in .270. I have only 100 rounds through it but it is very accurate shooting factory ammo. I wait for the barrel to cool off (7min) before the third shot, easily 1" groups (I am not a bench shooter).

Fit and finish is exceptional. I really like the stock design.

I have two pretty light rifles that are wonderful.

Remington M7 AWR in 7mm SAUM: 6# empty, 7# scoped. Shoots about 1.25" groups at 200 yards.

Merkel K1 7mm RemMag: 5# 9oz empty, about 6.5# scoped. Still working on the grouping but initial tests are very promising at 1.5" or less at 200 yards.

For me and my money, somehwere around 6.5# scoped is about my lightweight limit in the calibers I want to shoot.

If you get one of the miracle Kimber rifles that shoot, keep it. If it doesn't, get rid of it ASAP because it never will. I know from my tries with them. I know they are taboo here, but the best light rifle out of the box I found is my Browning Micro Medallionin 308. It is consistently under an inch with factory ammo. The only factory fodder it didn't like was Hornady Light Magnum.

I also like the suggestion of finding a Colt Light Rifle, if you prefer a long caliber.

I have a Remington KS Mountain rifle. It has always been exceptionally accurate. I have heard the same from other KS owners. They show up fairly often on the gun auction sites and are a good value IMHO.

Mart

You might even want to try a Stevens Mod. 200. The trigger might have to have some stoning but of the seven I have, non have been disappointing as field equipment. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
You might even want to try a Stevens Mod. 200. The trigger might have to have some stoning but of the seven I have, non have been disappointing as field equipment. roger

best way to improve a savage/ Stevens trigger is to replace the trigger reset spring, brings the weight right down from about 8 lbs to 4lbs

It might help if you would tell us what you consider a "light" rifle.

Most of my experience is from the days when men were in decent physical condition rather than lazy lard asses. They carried sporters weighing from 8-1/2 to 10 pounds including scope, sling, and a magazine full of ammo...usually about 9-to-9 & 1/4 pounds all up.

So, to me a very "light" rifle is anything under 8 & 1/4 pounds.

What, specifically, do you have in mind as a total maximum weight?

From personal experience, the Micro Medallions are good guns. So are the Colt Light Rifles and you can still find them on auction sites for 600-800 dollars. Caliber choice is limited to 30-06, 270, 7 Mag and 300 Mag. I had a Ruger Super Compact, a Weatherby 300Wby compact (yeah, oxymoron. Or maybe I was just being a moron) a 700 Mountain (not the KS) and of them all, I kept the Colt. Sold the Browning to a buddy and wish sometimes I hadn't. Don't miss the rest at all.

Regarding the Colts, my opinion is from a sample of over 10 rifles among many friends. All were good shooters.

I tried the Sako FinnLite when they came out and found it not on par with the standard rifles. I think the stocks were not all they should be.

My buddy tried the Remington Titanium with about the same result.

One thing I saw when I had to hurry up a steep hill and get set on a passing buck, was that the light rifle was also harder to settle on the target with more exertion on your part.

I returned to standard and even bean field style rifles that are heavier. They seem stronger, and I have more confidence in the shot.

I am quite sure the custom rifles will fill the bill , but you were talking about out of the box factory rifles. You can get lucky, but most likely a new one will need some work of some kind.

I've had several light rifles over the years. I had two Kimbers that shot 3/4 and 5/8" groups, and a 7-08 Kimber that shot 1 1/2". That one was gone fast. I had an MGA .338 built. That was a disappointment. It too was a 1 1/2" rifle, with their "tailored" handloads. It went back. I had a Remington Custom Shop KS Mountain Rifle in 7 mag. It was a solid MOA rifle.
I am currently shooting an Allen Precision custom 270 WSM that is a pretty consistent half-MOA rifle, having taken a number of 'chucks between 400 and 592 yards this year. This rifle runs about 8 lbs with a Nightforce 2.5-10 scope and Talley steel mounts.
Oh, one other. I bought a used HS Precision ultra light in 300 WSM last summer. Another
1 1/2" rifle. I called HS for advice, and they told me those ultra lights are very specialized rifles with an emphasis on light weight, not tack driving accuracy. My experience with light weight rifles has been they are much more challenging to shoot accurately, but if they are built right, they are capable of great accuracy.
To answer your question directly, I don't know of any factory rifle that I would depend on to get at least MOA accuracy. If I wanted a really accurate rifle I would go with a custom that offers an accuracy guarantee, or be willing to send it in to someone like Hill Country Rifles for an accurizing job.

I am not sure what you consider a light rifle.
But to me it is everything that is 7 lbs or lighter before you attach a scope to it.

For gun to be accurate in my opinion it needs to shoot 1 moa or less.
I owned a Remington 7 in 308 and that was not accurate. With most ammo I had problems to keep 3 shot groups inside 2" no matter what I did with the gun.
I didn't own that gun for long...

I now own a Remington 7 Predator in 223(I know it is not a medium bore ).
It shoots 1 moa and less.

I have owned a Tikka T3 SS Lite in 30-06 that shot 1 moa and less with almost anything I fed it with.
I have shot 2 other Tikka T3 SS Lite. Both shot 1 moa with the ammo the owners had.
All 3 Tikkas shot like this right out of the box.

My Kimber Montana in 308 Win, was a pain to get to shoot straight.

After trying and failing with different loads and bullets, I hit the golden spot with 150 grs Nosler PT and 150 grs Woodleigh PP.
They both shoot at the same point, and accuracy is very good.

As this is my "light deer rifle" I´m comfortable with the 150 grainers, and has become very fond of the little rifle.

Several Kimber Montanas that hit this shores some years back, was reported to have accuracy problems.
Why so, we never learned.

Another light rifle that stayed only some months with me was a Remington Seven in 243 Winchester.
Accuracy was ok, but the balance (or rather lack of balance) with the short barrel and laminate stock, was no good!

My experience is with a Remington Titanium .270 Win (was .30-06): It is a tricky job, but when You have the rifle in a 100% condition, it is worth... But they are very sensitive... You could improve your shooting much when You learn at a lightweight rifle, but it could also be painfull to get there...

People seem very impressed with their Tika T3 Lite rifles, accurate and very light. I've had an A-bolt and it was a good rifle too.

I have 3 Remington M700KS's,280,030'06, & 35 Whelen. They are all sub 1" rifles. They are light enough to carry & heavy enough to shoot.
Top 2 are M700 KSs

If you want an accurate rifle with a fantastic trigger right out of the box, spend some money and buy a Blaser R93. In standard calibers, they are nice, light, and portable.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Most of my experience is from the days when men were in decent physical condition rather than lazy lard asses. They carried sporters weighing from 8-1/2 to 10 pounds including scope, sling, and a magazine full of ammo...usually about 9-to-9 & 1/4 pounds all up.

And you walked to and from your hunting area uphill both ways!

To answer the question:
Browning Hunter Model
Winchester Featherweight
are two of my most accurate guns.

I own a Rem Model 7 SS with synthetic stock. Really light. It was glass bedded and given a trigger job. Shoots sub MOA always with handloads. Benched I can shhot it all day at 300 yds. into 6 inches or under. I found that when shooting these light rifles off the bench, you must hold on to the front of the stock to control them for better shooting. This is an accurate, light & dependable rifle.

I have shot over a dozen Remington Mod 7's in calibres 223, 243, 6mm Remington, 7mm/08, several in 308, and a 350 Rem Mag.
All shot great.

Likewise the Blaser R 93 shoots great in any calibre.

quote:

Originally posted by Greg K:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Most of my experience is from the days when men were in decent physical condition rather than lazy lard asses. They carried sporters weighing from 8-1/2 to 10 pounds including scope, sling, and a magazine full of ammo...usually about 9-to-9 & 1/4 pounds all up.

And you walked to and from your hunting area uphill both ways!

Interesting smart-ass answer.

If you re familiar with the sporters from the 1960s, even the 1970s and into the '80s, you will note that most of them actually weighed from 8 to 9-1/4 pounds once you added a scope, mounts, a sling, and a magazine full of ammo, regardless what their catalogues claimed.

So, to me a pre-'64 M 70 FW was a light rifle.

I have owned a lot of rifles since then that are lighter, as I'm sure many others here have.

But why waste time listing ones that weigh 7-1/2 pounds or even 7 pounds flat if he is looking for something under 7 pounds?

I just asked so we wouldn't waste his time or ours listing 7 pound or heavier rifles if he is for something in the weight class of a NULA.

That doesn't seem to me to be too much to ask.

I have or have had 8 Weatherby ultra lightweights in 6 lug and 9 lug actions and all have shot very well and some have been great. They have a decent trigger and shoulder and hold nicely even without the weight. The 6 lugs are easy to keep under 7 lbs and they are comfortable to shoot. My 700 TI seems to slap me around a bit, makes me feel like a french canadian prize fighter. They also have a 24 inch barrel on standard calibres.

Hi

I have the Browning Titanium in 7/08 which is a nice rifle and a sub MOA shooter straight from the box with several loads. Its under 5.5 lbs which is nice and light. Not too keen on the fibre bolt shroud but it has 1k+ rounds down the tube with no significant wear apparent yet. I would imagine that the recoil from the WSM versions at the same weight would be horrendous!

I had the Rem Ti in .270 which was a pig of a gun, considering that it is their premium offering it could have been finished properly, the action screws probably shouldnt have been binding the bolt, the bolt lugs could both have been contacting, the barrel could have collected a bit less copper and it could have grouped under 3 inches SURELY??? Rather than spend the money fixing a new rifle (following straight after a depressing relationship with a CDL) it got traded.

The R93 is not an especially "light rifle" but they do feel much lighter in the hand than many comparable shooters - something about their balance or compact nature?

The whole "light rifle are unsteady on game" thing is pure internet parroting. Both of these rifles point/pointed very well and after climbing over 3500 vertical ft before breakfast I know what I would rather be carrying and what I would be better able to present to my target.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by Greg K:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Most of my experience is from the days when men were in decent physical condition rather than lazy lard asses. They carried sporters weighing from 8-1/2 to 10 pounds including scope, sling, and a magazine full of ammo...usually about 9-to-9 & 1/4 pounds all up.

And you walked to and from your hunting area uphill both ways!

Interesting smart-ass answer.

If you re familiar with the sporters from the 1960s, even the 1970s and into the '80s, you will note that most of them actually weighed from 8 to 9-1/4 pounds once you added a scope, mounts, a sling, and a magazine full of ammo, regardless what their catalogues claimed.

So, to me a pre-'64 M 70 FW was a light rifle.

I have owned a lot of rifles since then that are lighter, as I'm sure many others here have.

But why waste time listing ones that weigh 7-1/2 pounds or even 7 pounds flat if he is looking for something under 7 pounds?

I just asked so we wouldn't waste his time or ours listing 7 pound or heavier rifles if he is for something in the weight class of a NULA.

That doesn't seem to me to be too much to ask.

Speaking of NULA, is Mel going to prduce the $1500 economy model that was discussed earlier this year?

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Speaking of NULA, is Mel going to prduce the $1500 economy model that was discussed earlier this year?

There are already a couple of guys who have bought (and one who has bought and sold) the Forbes rifles. So far they are raving over them. I have one of his smokeless muzzleloaders and a Colt Light Rifle that was rebarreled and restocked by Mel to be a pseudo-NULA. I really dig his guns. If they make the Forbes in a short acion I'll be on it.

Bought a used Winchester featherweight and it had some issues initially. Upon examination, the bedding wasn't right. Since I bought it used I don't know if it came that way from the factory of it was messed with by the previous owner. It looked like there were spacers at the screw points and one of them was cracked partially off, which made the action not sit square in the stock. Got the bedding fixed by the local 'smith (didn't go glass bed, just had him fix the bad point and make sure the barrel was centered in the stock) and threw a Limbsaver dereasonator on it and it shoots sub moa from the bench. I'd buy another.

Also, have had two Ruger 77's (original 77R in 270 Win and MkII Sporter in .308 Win). Both shot well out of the box, although the 308 was sometimes picky about what was put through it (liked Federal 180 NP and Winchester 150 BSTs and 150 XP3, but hated Winchester 150 partition gold and wasn't impressed with Remington 165 Sciroccos). 270 wasn't fussy as far as I remember (been 17 years since I passed it on).

Both were factory loads only. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either for accuracy.

Boliep,

From the information you gave us to work with, I would recommend a Tikka T-3 Lite in any of the calibers you might choose. They are tested prior to shipping, and if they cannot shoot MOA, they are not shipped. Super slick action, but they are push feed.

If your budget is greater, there are lots of options available, the best of which may be a custom Mauser 98, in .275 Rigby (7x57) with a slim walnut stock modeled after an original Rigby, in 22" lightweight barrel, topped with a Leupold Vari X II Ultralight in 3x9x33, which weighs only 8.8 oz.

With the Tikka and this same Leupold scope, the outfit would weigh just over 7 lbs., and in the Mauser, not more than 8.5 Lbs.

Hope that helps. More info would make our recommendations easier.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
Boliep,

From the information you gave us to work with, I would recommend a Tikka T-3 Lite in any of the calibers you might choose. They are tested prior to shipping, and if they cannot shoot MOA, they are not shipped. Super slick action, but they are push feed.

If your budget is greater, there are lots of options available, the best of which may be a custom Mauser 98, in .275 Rigby (7x57) with a slim walnut stock modeled after an original Rigby, in 22" lightweight barrel, topped with a Leupold Vari X II Ultralight in 3x9x33, which weighs only 8.8 oz.

With the Tikka and this same Leupold scope, the outfit would weigh just over 7 lbs., and in the Mauser, not more than 8.5 Lbs.

Hope that helps. More info would make our recommendations easier.

I've never looked into the Tikka MD, what kind of money do they go for?

Nary shall a POS (Kimber for those unknowing), cross the threshhold of my door way. My one and only was a Montana in .270 WSM. In an attempt to get the POS to consistantly shoot, I spent about the cost again of the rifle. Yes!! Stupid, I know. Sent it to a well known company in the Lower-48 to accurize. No good. No complaints on the company tho. Decided on a re-barrel and shipped it off to a well known smith in Montana. The only thing he could think of was a new barrel. Voila!! A Lilja barrel. Got it back, still inconsistant groups. Finally shitcanned it & got a Win. Extreme Weather in the same caliber. Not quite as good as I'd like but still lots better.
BTW, with the POS, I thought I had a load developed once. A 150 gr. Sierra in front of 69 gr. of Retumbo gave me a 5 shot group with all shots literally touching. "Ha ha", says I, "I finally found it." I then reproduced the exact load again, including seating depth and weighing each powder charge. Back to the range I go. "Whatthe@(^%", says I. The 2nd group was about as bad as any of the others.
Absolutely no more POS for me. You can take your chances with 'em if you want. Rant off.
Bear in Fairbanks

Ultra-light Arms (Mel Forbes) is involved with a semi-custom version of his original rifle - very ltwt and is available in .30/06 and a couple of other calbiers. Priced around $1300 and have an accuracy guarantee.