XPR is it a modified A-Bolt III?

It looks like a Browning, I read the link looking for the 60 degree bolt lift which would have been a giveaway.
Given the relationship of Winchester Browning I'm sure it is some kind of hybrid.

Its 1964 all over again. The big gun companies are in a race to see who can build the cheapest rifle by dumbing down what they have and/or coming up with design "improvements" that cheapen production. Just look at what's being produced. Cheap stocks, cheap finishes, barrel nuts, and shortcuts all the way. And, like in the 1960s, it is being sold to us as new and improved products backed by decades of manufacturing and engineering experience.

The cheapened $329* Remington MODEL 783™ is being sold as better and improved:
"Custom-grade accuracy is now within reach of virtually every hunter. Using the expertise that's dominated bolt-action technology for more than 50 years, the engineering team started from scratch and combined their most advanced, accuracy-enhancing features to create an all-new platform. This sleek, hardworking tack-driver is even built differently."

Ruger will have us believe the $319* Ruger American is all about innovative engineering:
"Ruger American Rifle® is the latest engineering innovation from America's leading firearms manufacturer. ... combines the rugged reliability of Ruger's past with the award-winning ingenuity featured in so many of Ruger's new products."

Savage, already in the low price bracket, has seen the need to dumb down their product even further. Retailers can offer the Axis for $319* or even less. According to Savage, the Axis is a "New modern design". Interestingly, their previous bargain basement Stevens bolt action is no longer offered.

*-Street prices shown

Now we see Winchester jumping on the POS bandwagon.
Please look in awe at the precision machining and finish on the XPR™ "RECESSED TARGET-STYLE CROWN":


And a stock reminiscent of a $79 RamLine. But it can't be a RamLine because it is formed of
an "ADVANCED POLYMER" instead of plastic and has highly engineered and
meticulously injection molded "FLAT PROFILE INTERFACE PADS" for the barrel to "rest" on:


Tell me this doesn't remind you of a BSA CF2:


Yup, it's 1964 all over again. Remember pressed checkering? Remember rifles that should have sights being offered without sights? Remember birch instead of walnut? Remember stamped and plastic parts? Remember unpolished metal? You can't tell me the economy is getting better.

~

A Winchester with a barrel nut! That's what got me!

I was wonderin how a 300 dollar rifle was so much better than a 700 dollar rifle, and if it's so great why can't they make the 700 dollar rifle for 300 dollars.

I guess I don't see it as "1964 all over again".
I didn't see anywhere that it stated this was a replacement or even and equal to a M70. Just another option.
Almost everybody has thrown their hat into the "competitive priced" rifle market.

Snellstrom - What happened in the 1960s is that all the big firearms companies, not just Winchester, "threw their hat into the 'competitive priced' market" by cutting back on quality. The point I was trying to make is that we are seeing that again.

And the sad part is that many newcomers to the shooting fraternity will buy these and never realize that they are missing the true pride and joy of owning a finely, precisely machined firearm with beautiful walnut finely inletted to finely made metal. Chalk up another victory for the lowest common denominator way of thinking. Kinda sad, isn't it?

My take on the 1960's. I expect about a 50-50 agree/disagree. A comparison of the Win model 12 and Rem 870. The model 12 had machined parts. Compare the thickness of the receiver for example. No denying thicker metal in the Mod 12. The 870 had stamped parts. The 870 also had stamped checkering. Off the shelf about same price. Many considered the Remington offerings as better than the Winchesters. There is no denying it was costing Winchester more to produce their products. Winchester could not afford to raise their price, so they had to cheapen things. Same comparisons can be made to the Win mod 70 and the Rem 721 and later Rem 700. It was costing Win much more than what it was costing Rem.

Not sure if this is useful, but I've seen the great "race to the bottom" like the rest here. Yes in some ways it's disturbing, but I realize that in order to stay in business the companies have to keep making and selling guns. I grew up in the 50 ' s and 60's and formed my initial thoughts around blue steel and walnut. So much has changed that it would take hours to discuss. Milspec, "tacticool", plastic, utilitarian, and just plain cheap have taken over a lot of the market, and unlike 50 years ago (and btw I am NOT a "Fudd") a LOT of the market (just look at what is being made and sold currently) Thinking seems to revolve around, to state it tactfully, defense. This is current thinking, like it or not. I didn't grow up that way but I can certainly see how and why younger shooters might have. And I'm not necessarily against this. These cheaper guns probably attract a lot of folks to the shooting and hunting games, and these days we need all the numbers we can get. So on balance this may very well be a good thing..

Having said all that.. and I hope nobody takes offense at the foregoing, it's much to FN/BROWNING/WINCHESTER ' S credit that they've also kept the blue steel and walnut around,and have kept/ resurrected the M70 to the point that some have expressed the opinion that they're the best M70 ' s ever. I just bought an Alaskan in .300 and can close my eyes and almost fantasize that it's 1963 again. Things like this keep me smiling anyway.

When you think of rifles as works of art than the trend to cheap utilitarian tools is painful. But rifles that shoot less than an inch guaranteed out of the box and are lightweight and reliable under $350 are a good thing for most people. The Tikka was badmouthed when it came out and is now respected as a dependable performer. Fancy walnut with fine checkering and shiny deep bluing never killed a darn thing. I like the works of art but don't mind the plain Jane tools. My new 700 isn't as beautiful and refined as the first BDL I bought in 1977 but it shoots and extracts much better. The RAR I have on the way won't have metal like my Ruger model 77 from 1976 but it won't bother me when it gets dragged through the brush.

I was going to take my New Haven circa 1999 M70 300 Win Mag to the gun show this weekend and sell it or trade for something else.

Maybe I'll just keep it instead.

It's a lot more fun to acquire an Pre-64 or a nice M98 Mauser and spend some quality time just figuring what caliber, and how much finely figured Walnut I can afford.

IMHO, if they spent half the time figuring out ways to make rifles cheaper on maintaining the quality of 50 years ago, I might consider buying factory.

I wonder what the excuse will be since they don't have those evil unions around anymore.

Plastic, ugh!!

ISS.... Jmho here of course, but have you given a look at the new FN/Browning M70's? Seems they're basically a Browning (marked "BACO, Morgan Utah") bearing the Winchester logo. I was pretty unimpressed with a lot of the Winchester stuff from the '90's and '00's but I'd have to say that the new ones seem a lot nicer..

I love so called "Classic Rifles" above all others: M98, and Win M70 with nice wood etc. However, I have nothing against cheap, accurate, utilitarian rifles. They have allowed a lot of folks to get into shooting and hunting who otherwise would not have, due to cost. These folks may later invest in nicer rifles. The Ruger number one may be on its last leg, but I don't see the M70, M77, or M700 going away anytime soon.
Economics are what they are. Inflation, the price of labor, materials, fuel, etc has gone up an a lot the last 10 to 15 years or so.
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by H47:
I was pretty unimpressed with a lot of the Winchester stuff from the '90's and '00's but I'd have to say that the new ones seem a lot nicer..

They are very nice. Build with ISO quality control. If they had left the trigger alone, or made them so that the original M70 triggers could be installed, more folks might warm up to them. The new triggers are nice though, and work as advertised. They just aren't the simple bull tough that we liked. I understand their reasons for changing the barrel threads, but they should have left them alone too. I now own two of the new model 70's. While I haven't put them through their paces yet, they seem very precisely made, and are smooth as silk. I really have no room to complain.
Matt

quote:

Build with ISO quality control.

I have personally helped two companies achieve ISO certification.....there is no magic in it.....there is no quality assurances in it.....it's a political tool pure and simple.....

Quality is a character of the company and nothing else.

ISO is a joke and a bad one.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Build with ISO quality control.

I have personally helped two companies achieve ISO certification.....there is no magic in it.....there is no quality assurances in it.....it's a political tool pure and simple.....

Quality is a character of the company and nothing else.

ISO is a joke and a bad one.

Don't want to get into a pissing match. I've only helped one company achieve ISO 9001, but I happen to very strongly disagree with your opinion, and I'll leave it at that. The Q.C. evident in the G series classic model 70 was pretty hit and miss. Thus far, the BACO/FN rifles have shown very consistent quality. That is what I'm getting at.
Matt

The dumb ass bean counters are at it again, where do these guys come from, some way off planet...

Winchester is once again on the road to bankruptcy and once again they earned it.

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Build with ISO quality control.

I have personally helped two companies achieve ISO certification.....there is no magic in it.....there is no quality assurances in it.....it's a political tool pure and simple.....

Quality is a character of the company and nothing else.

ISO is a joke and a bad one.

Don't want to get into a pissing match.
Matt

Then don't....I'll stand by my statement.....

I love the classic rifles.
I have i think 14 of them.
I do not care for the new cheap ones.
But realistically they kill game just as dead.
Not all hunters are rifle nutz like most of us.
As long as they keep making the old style stuff , i am ok with the ugly sticks.
But i am afraid Ruger for example is cutting back on there Hawkey, and really cutting back on the number #1.
If this trend continues and spreads, The used rifle prices are likly to jump !...tj3006