I am thinking of buying a rifle sight-unseen from the Internet. The rifle is a good buy, assuming it's in good shape and shoots like it should.

However, I sent a guy some gear and never got paid. He represented himself as a kid, and I am a softie. How do you separate out the fair dealers or protect yourself in a business deal that could go several hundred dollars?

kk

Generally I don't buy used firearms over the internet, unless:

1) It's an established dealer I trust;
2) It is on Gunbroker.com ( or similar )which has
fraud coverage;
3) It is offered for sale on a forum I frequent
and the seller is "known" to me. Scam artists
are quickly found out and don't stay around a
particular site too long.

It's a good idea to contact via telephone and ask a lot of questions before buying, just like you would on an ad in Shotgun News or Gun List. Always insist on the typical 3 day inspection/return privilege. Make payment through the U.S. mail and if you get stiffed you can go to the U.S. Postal Inspector. Mail fraud is a felony and they take it seriously.

[ 05-07-2003, 17:35: Message edited by: fla3006 ]

I've done this a bunch of times and everything went OK except on 2 different occasions. Call the seller talk to him at length, Ask lots of questions, sometimes you can get a "feel" of someone's personality just by talking to them. Make sure EVERYTHING is understood upfront (The condition of the firearm, when it will be sent, how it will be sent, an inspection period, etc.) Get the serial# for the rifle before money is ever sent and have the police run the number though their NCIC system. If he refuses to give you ANY information you ask for, back out of the deal.

On one deal I made over the Internet, I called the guy up and talked to him for about 30min. Something just didn't sit well with me after we talked, but I was swayed by my emotions (I wanted the rifle bad) I sent the guy a US Postal M/O for a Remington 6MM REM 700BDL stocked in french walnut. The gun came with 18 boxes of 100pack bullets, brass and dies. I ended up getting the gun and it was as nice as I had been told it was, but it took 3 months. After he received my money, there just wasn't any incentive for him to put the damn thing in a box and send it. After hounding him on the phone and though emails, I ended up calling his employer (He shipped the bullets and brass from there) and explained that his employee was about to be charged with mail fraud and I would be implicating his business since the return address was his and a firearm was involved. I got the gun about 3 days later.

One other time I bought a Winchester model 88 off a GUNBROKER.com auction. After I received the rifle I called Winchester to see if the recall work had been done this rifle. The only way to find out is give the serial# to winchester and they look it up and get back to you. Well they did, about a week later, 2 detectives come to my house and confiscate the rifle as stolen property! I called the guy I bought it from and he returned my money with out much of a hassel, but it kinda sucks having the police come to your house for stolen property.

Another thing of note, GunBroker was most unhelpful in the whole procces. Even claimed they (their fraud program)were not responsible.

A very good option that I have used with a couple of large purchases on eBay is an escrow service. There are various ones, eBay's is www.escrow.com. The process is that you and the seller would register your transaction with the service. Next you send your payment to the service. Once they receive, they authorize the seller to ship, and he records the tracking number (Fed Ex, UPS) of the shipment with them. When you receive, you have an inspection period (two or three days). Then you either ship it back, or authorize payment to the seller. If you ship it back, you give the tracking number and then you get your money back from the service. Obviously, there is a small fee, but worth it for a safe transaction. And it works equally well whether you are the seller or the buyer.

KK, perhaps I have been lucky, but I have bought at least 30 rifles/pistols through GunsAmerica.com and have had great success. All guns were exactly as described and were shipped immediately upon receiving my money order. I have also sold many guns through GunsAmerica.com and have never had any problems or complaints. However, the latin maxim of "caviat emptor" should always be employed. Most sites have buyer/seller feedback to provide potential buyers/sellers somekind of background for the individual they are planning to do business with. I sure have found some sinfully good deals. Good luck, Lou

If the seller can not send you pictures with a digital camera , ask him to take regular photos with a disposable camera, and send the pictures that way. Have done this before and have had no problems so far. It takes a little longer but well worth it in the long run.
For one, it shows that they actually have the item, and two, you can see what condition it is in.

I have really had no problems buying over the internet. In fact, I just traded rifles with .358 that posts here frequently and it went very well. We are both very happy. Check all the feedback you can, talk to the individual at length (funny, I still have never had a phone conversation with 358) and do your homework. I went back to several of 358s posts to see if there was anything out of the ordinary with him and other than being jealous of his bear hunts, all was great, so I made the trade. All will generally work out fine. Pay with a money order that you can either stop payment on or a postal.

A couple of simple rules that I follow. Always pay via the US Mail. I want to be able to remind the seller about the laws regarding Mail Fraud. Always use an FFL to send and receive. I want as much proof as possible if I have to go to the ATF.

I have done several purchases via the net. In all they have been very good. Once I returned a LC Smith Shotgun because it had the wrong forearm and I and my FFL dealer found dents in the barrels. The seller was not happy, but did return my money.

I recently saw a highly engraved 12ga on Gunsamerica. I contacted the seller. He called me and we had an interesting discussion. I asked him the make of the shotgun. He said there were absolutely no markings anywhere on the gun. He then said it was a Belgium made gun. I asked how he knew that it was Belgian in origin. Did it have Belgian proof marks? All I got was silence. He said he knew it because, well, he knew it. That was the end of our conversation and any potential deal.

You really do have to speak to the seller before you buy. I would never buy sight unseen. You will have to pay shipping from the seller and back if you reject the gun. Why spend $50 for the privledge of looking at a gun? I usually just assume the seller is more of an optimist about the condition of the gun, than anyone else viewing it at the moment.

Pete

[ 05-14-2003, 18:45: Message edited by: Quail Wing ]

I used gunfinder.net and bestbuyguns.com both URL come from the same dealer in Michigan.
Great prices as far as I can tell.
Friendly service - emails are answered promptly.
Makes a very professional impression. They only sell new guns in the box. Still sealed by the manufacturer. 3 day return policy. Never had to use it but it's good that it's there.
In fact I just mailed them an order for a Savage 10FP. Hope I didn't jinks (sp?) it now!
gunfinder.net