I recently changed job and meet this young man that says he was in the Marines and took sniper training. I ask him what caliber rifle he shot. He said 302. He said when he got out after 8 yrs of service, he had a rifle made up exactly like the one used in the Marines. I said I wasn't familiar with that caliber, and he said you will have to see it(the rifle) to understand it. I have been a shooter and semi-mad gun nut for 60 yrs and I ain't heard of a 302. A Ford engine maybe, but no military rifle. And ideas???

Well I may be wrong but in all the years I've followed guns never heard of a .302. I sensing that there just could be the smell of a little in the air here. But I have been wrong before. It will be interesting to see if anyone has some information on the infamous .302.

Having been a military man does not in any way make this guy an expert.....I know another guy that claims to be an expert sniper that was military trained and shoots a lot that claims he can shoot 3/4" groups at 200 yards with iron sights with his '96 Mauser.

The military does release a few folks that have the BS flag with them.

He might have just been talking about his car (a Ford?) with a 302 cid motor in it - and had it on the brain when he meant to say .308.

There is a 302 - it's just a motor.



bob

I think Bob Davis is right. He's confusing his rifle with his old Mustang.

7.65 Argentine Gentlemen !

The 7.65 Argentine or 7.65 X 53 Mauser is a true .302 caliber !
Norma still make bullets specifically for it.

Both Remington and Winchester factory chambered for it. Also made ammo for it.

The famous Model 1909 Argentine Mauser in standard and Sniper versions were chambered for this !

Since I served with Delta 1/5 in 1969, I have met countless ex Marine snipers, recon rats, Navy seals and tunnel rats, all of whom, I suspect, have never worn a uniform.

I´ve worked at a miltary base the last three years and I´m supprised how few of the guys here that are interested in guns. Some really don´t seem to know the caliber of their assault rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Davis:
He might have just been talking about his car (a Ford?) with a 302 cid motor in it - and had it on the brain when he meant to say .308.

There is a 302 - it's just a motor.

bob

That is unless you live north of the Mason-Dixon line and don't know what NASCAR is - then it's an engine.

quote:

Originally posted by OldGuy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Davis:
There is a 302 - it's just a motor.

bob

That is unless you live north of the Mason-Dixon line and don't know what NASCAR is - then it's an engine.

Hah - I moved to Texas from New Hampshire about 5 years ago. I know about this NASCAR thing... but I much prefer Rally! Flying down a real dirt road in a car that is actually a car at speeds that make mothers cry is more fun than laughing. I kind of traded it for hunting with the move down here.

quote:

Originally posted by OldGuy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Davis:
He might have just been talking about his car (a Ford?) with a 302 cid motor in it - and had it on the brain when he meant to say .308.

There is a 302 - it's just a motor.

bob

That is unless you live north of the Mason-Dixon line and don't know what NASCAR is - then it's an engine.

OldGuy,
I also think that a Ford 302 is a motor, but a MOPAR 426 Hemi is an ENGINE

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
7.65 Argentine Gentlemen !

The 7.65 Argentine or 7.65 X 53 Mauser is a true .302 caliber !
Norma still make bullets specifically for it.

Both Remington and Winchester factory chambered for it. Also made ammo for it.

The famous Model 1909 Argentine Mauser in standard and Sniper versions were chambered for this !

Yep, but there ain't a lot of US Marine "Snipers" that used one in the service.

I assume you all know the reason we lost the VietNam war was that there were no cooks, typists, motor pool knuckle-busters, carpenters, supply clerks, or similar U.S. support troops there.

EVERYONE was apparently a Lurp, Seal, SOG operative, sniper, snoop, or something they are not allowed by law to talk about.

He probably can't tell you more about it because then he'd have to kill you.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Davis:

quote:

Originally posted by OldGuy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Davis:
There is a 302 - it's just a motor.

bob

That is unless you live north of the Mason-Dixon line and don't know what NASCAR is - then it's an engine.

Hah - I moved to Texas from New Hampshire about 5 years ago. I know about this NASCAR thing... but I much prefer Rally! Flying down a real dirt road in a car that is actually a car at speeds that make mothers cry is more fun than laughing. I kind of traded it for hunting with the move down here.

In Texas:
motors run on electricity
engines run on fuel

Thanks guys, this gentleman now says that he washed out of the Marine Sniper school because on the last week before graduation he went hang gliding and blew up his knee. He then became a truck driver in Desert Storm, hauling nuclear devices around Iraq, and them spent 18 months as a guard at Getmo. I do harbor some suspesions about this boy!

quote:

Originally posted by John D Smith:
Thanks guys, this gentleman now says that he washed out of the Marine Sniper school because on the last week before graduation he went hang gliding and blew up his knee. He then became a truck driver in Desert Storm, hauling nuclear devices around Iraq, and them spent 18 months as a guard at Getmo. I do harbor some suspesions about this boy!

As well you should.

A 302 ci engine is a Chevy. 327 block(4" bore) with a 283 crank(3' stroke), or the 295 horse factory version in '69 Camaro.

ci=bore x bore x stroke x .7854 x number of cylinders

onefunzr2,

That's exactly what I was thinking!!!! The Ford 302 is an also ran. The original 302 is a Chevy engine!!! The first Z-28 engine, built to conform to the Trans Am series rules with a displacement cap just over 300 c.i.d., don't remember exactly what it was 307 c.i.d. maybe?

Fords here used to have a 302 Cleveland (Sp)
or (my) Windsor, which started to limp when well over 200,000 miles.
To stay on topic, I used to run guns over the border sometimes.
No, really, each state had different laws which didn't suit all shooters.
Annon.

Chevy had the production 305 and 307 engines. Ford had the production 302's

The engines were built around racing rules that limited displacement to 5.0 liters. 5.00 l ==305.12 in^3

Ford and Chevy both made 302's, but the Ford 302 was much more widely known as Chevy's 305 was it's main engine in production cars for years.

quote:

Originally posted by tdobesh:
onefunzr2,

That's exactly what I was thinking!!!! The Ford 302 is an also ran. The original 302 is a Chevy engine!!! The first Z-28 engine, built to conform to the Trans Am series rules with a displacement cap just over 300 c.i.d., don't remember exactly what it was 307 c.i.d. maybe?

Before there were 302s, guys would bore a 283 .120" over and make a 301.

I had a "57" Chevy with one of those.

3.875 + .120 = 3.995 X .5 = r squared X pi X 3 x 8 = 300.8393837 cu. in.

And yes you could bore the early blocks .120" oversize

BTW, a 302 is a 327 bore (4") with a 283 (3") stroke. A 307 is a 283 bore (3 7/8") with a 327 (3 1/4") stroke. Not to be confused with a 305 that is 2 3/4" bore with a 350 (3.48") stroke. 2 3/4" is, I believe, the bore of the original "small block Chevy" 265.

Talk about using available parts/machining to advantage.

A rule of thumb is that a V8 engine with a 4" bore will have a cubic inch displacement equal to the stroke in decimal X 100 + 2.

4" bore X 3.00" stroke = 302 cu. in.
4" bore X 3.25" stroke = 327 cu. in.
4" bore X 3.48" stroke = 350 cu. in.

All were chevy "production" engines although the 302 was "limited"

quote:

Originally posted by John D Smith:
I recently changed job and meet this young man that says he was in the Marines and took sniper training. I ask him what caliber rifle he shot. He said 302. He said when he got out after 8 yrs of service, he had a rifle made up exactly like the one used in the Marines. I said I wasn't familiar with that caliber, and he said you will have to see it(the rifle) to understand it. I have been a shooter and semi-mad gun nut for 60 yrs and I ain't heard of a 302. A Ford engine maybe, but no military rifle. And ideas???

Unless this guy has a real faulty memory, I would be real suspicious of any of his war stories! The U.S. has never used any round called a ".302", or even the .303, (the British verwion of which was a very successful BRITISH cartridge, used by them in some very effective sniper rifles in both WWI and WWII. Again, never used by the U.S!!

In addition, I could not find ANY CARTRIDGE called a ".302" mentioned in Cartridges of the World, so my guess is that there ain't no sech annymal! I suspect this guy actually used a 7.62X51mm NATO, AKA .308 Winchester.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
7.65 Argentine Gentlemen !

The 7.65 Argentine or 7.65 X 53 Mauser is a true .302 caliber!

True!! But no more so than the .303 British or the 7.62X53R Russian!! And the U.S. Marine Corps has never used ANY of these three rounds for anything, much less as sniper rifles!!

I'm disappointed this delimma is resolved.
I was thinking the .302 was just a constipated .308 Winnie in khaki...doin' what old soldiers do...

.

Alf,

Are you sure you aren't thinking of the 7,35? It takes a .300 or .302 bullet. The 7.65x53 takes .311" bullets. Although I've seen them in .310" and .312" as well.

It's actually quite surprising how many metric cartridges the Model 54 and its competitors of the era were chambered in.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Golden:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Davis:

quote:

Originally posted by OldGuy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Davis:
There is a 302 - it's just a motor.

bob

That is unless you live north of the Mason-Dixon line and don't know what NASCAR is - then it's an engine.

Hah - I moved to Texas from New Hampshire about 5 years ago. I know about this NASCAR thing... but I much prefer Rally! Flying down a real dirt road in a car that is actually a car at speeds that make mothers cry is more fun than laughing. I kind of traded it for hunting with the move down here.

In Texas:
motors run on electricity
engines run on fuel

As it was explained to me a long time ago - in Texas - a motor is self starting while an engine is not self starting and usually requires a motor of some type to get it going.

I know that had nothing to do with guns or snipers, but I couldn't help myself...

quote:

a motor is self starting while an engine is not self starting and usually requires a motor of some type to get it going.

...kinda like guys and girls.

.