My hunting load for my long throated 284 is 54.0 gr RL17 with a 5 shot average velocity @ 47 degrees of 3051 fps useing 140 Nosler Ballistic tips. Groups .625 & 100 yds. fired cases & primers look fine.

Two deer kills, one @ 129 yds & the other @ 119 one shot each. Just bang drop kills.

Both kills were just behind the shoulder heart/lung kills BUT in each kill the nosler ballistic tip
came apart inside; NO EXIT. I think that I am at the velocity limit for that bullet. I have switched to the 140 gr Accubond & ended that problem. Accuracy is not quite as good with group opening up to just under an inch but still very satisfactory for deer hunting.

Humberger, I noted the samething in my STW with the 150gr BT's.

The amount of internal damage was staggering, but I switchted to the 160gr AB and the "problem" was solved.

I used BT and Partitions for years. Depending on what I was hunting. Now only Accubonds to me best of both worlds.

I've had the samething happen with alot of diffent brands. All I can says is that from time to time stuff happens!!!

I don't worry about it to much.

I made the switch to Accubonds 5 seasons ago and have recovered 4 bullets all tipped the scale at 2/3.....just as advertised

3 of those bullets were north to south shots and found in the hind quarter or just under the hide on the hind.....2 deer......1 pronghorn

1 was a 200 yard shoulder shot on a elk from my 30-06 shooting 150 grn Accubonds at 2900 fps

I love these bullets and will continue to use them in everything I can

My experience with the BT's is soup inside and no exit. My experience with the AB's last year - 140gr 7x57 is they were VERY accurate but pass throughs, no blood trails (at all). Only one of the 6 was a bang/flop, the remainder were mostly broadside, behind the shoulder shots from ranges of 50 yds to 240 yrds. I found all the deer but there was no blood to follow. I think they are too tough for whitetail deer. I quit using them. I'll stick with partitions.

Guns, at 7x57 velocities, you don't need the accubonds, BT's do just fine. At STW velocities, it's a little different.

I'm an Accubond fan and I have never recovered an Accubond from a White-tailed Deer. I have not hunted with Nosler BTs.

The only "Bang-Flop, No Exit" I personally witnessed was with a 150 grain Hornady SST. I presume it's similar to the Nosler BT.
My son in law hit a nice buck high on the shoulder. The buck staggered and fell where he stood. At first we couldn't find the entrance wound. Only a smidgen of blood and no exit.

I love Bang Flop, but I really like a mushrooming pass through bullet!

You don't really expect the BT to exit do you?
It's a cup and core bullet, and pretty frangible. They have never been considered a "tough" or "premium" bullet. For the past couple decades I have seen them used mostly as varmint bullets, or deer bullets in moderate velocity rounds, as Antelope Sniper mentioned.

The BT is fine at 2800 fps muzzle velcity for 100 meter shots - irrespective calibre 243 to 30 cal. But if you hit bone, the bullet blows up very quickly - like hitting a rib causes lung soup and no exit.

At 3000+ fps the Accubond is ideal even if you hit leg bone. I have shot fallow deer at 320 meters and it was a pass through but the deer died in its bed with a heart shot. Did not even get up. Rifle was 280 Ack Imp with 160 gr AB @3000 fps

I load 100 grain NBTs up 3500 fps in my kids .257 Weatherby, and did the same for my own when I still had it. Likewise with 7mm STWs I've owned over the last 20 years or so.

With the .257 about 1 in 10 will exit, and fewer than that would take a step. After awhile we quit worrying about bloodtrails. Most would exit with the STW. Either way, I wouldn't worry about killing deer sized animals with a NBT.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Two deer kills, one @ 129 yds & the other @ 119 one shot each. Just bang drop kills.

Yeah, I'd toss those bullets in the garbage and go look for something made from spent uranium. Pretty disgusting when a deer falls in its tracks and denies you the satisfaction of tracking it a long way.

HAHAHA
Good point Stonecreek. They work the way they work, and that can be very effective. I used 180 gr NBT's and similar bullets for many years in a '06. They worked well, though seldom exited. They could produce a lot of blood shot meat if they hit bone. I always figured if I shot something through the shoulders with them, I was going to lose most of the front end, the entry side anyway.
I really disliked these bullets when clients would show up with them loaded in magnum rounds. They just shredded an animal.
Even with the '06 I learned to place shots carefully if I wanted to eat what I shot.

BT's are not designed to exit every time. They are designed to be aerodynamic and disrupt violently. They do.

Why do some think this is somehow a failure?

If you want passthroughs with narrow wound channels pick a different bullet, slow it way down, or shoot farther away.

I don't mind BT's or some other frangible soft bullets for some things. Sometimes I think the more violent disruption tends to lead to more of a DRT/bangflop type reaction, and tougher bullets, while they exit and leave a blood trail, tend to see the animal run a bit.

I've gotten similar results with SST's and HotCor as with BT's.
I like getting both a big upset and exits. Up close some standard cup & core bullets do "blow up" as some say but will kill very quickly, and if the range extends out a little they will also exit.
I have not had anything "blow up" on the surface of any animal. What I have had that was a little disappointing was X bullets that zipped through and didn't seem to do much damage. The animal barely flinched and took off. Yes it was dead on it's feet but it required following it up.
I'm not convinced any one bullet is perfect. I have a wide variety of bullets in my cupboard, and load different ammo for several rifles so a choice is available depending on need.

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Hide Post
I load 100 grain NBTs up 3500 fps in my kids .257 Weatherby, and did the same for my own when I still had it. Likewise with 7mm STWs I've owned over the last 20 years or so.

With the .257 about 1 in 10 will exit, and fewer than that would take a step. After awhile we quit worrying about bloodtrails. Most would exit with the STW. Either way, I wouldn't worry about killing deer sized animals with a NBT.

Nothing says failure like a truck full of deer!

I always get an exit with BT's and love the DRT performance I get from them. If you are not getting exit's try a heavier BT for that caliber.
Almost all my shots are over 200 yards so even my .300Win mag and .270WSM has a bit of time to slow down. I use 180's in the .300 and 150's in the .270WSM

The NBT has been improved as the early ones acted like varmint bullets. That said, the Accubond is a better hunting bullet and just as accurate. I happen to like two holes and the ability to break down large game on the spot. Barnes has met my needs for decades and every one has been a one shot kill and never lost an animal. Monometals are coming fast, Barnes just happened to be first. When I can push the new 80 gr TTSX at 4000 fps in a 25-06, get sub MOA accuracy and "end to end" a mature buck Antelope (two holes and wreckage between them), there is no reason to have lead peppered meat. Thought the 244 H&H with the 80 TSX @3700 was the hammer of Thor, but would love to see what this new .257 TTSX would do in a 257 Weatherby!

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
I can push the new 80 gr TTSX at 4000 fps in a 25-06

There will be some who will doubt that velocity, but they just haven't tried moving the chronograph screens a little closer together. Works every time!

Different strokes for diffferent folks.

Drop on the spot implies central nervous system injury- animal is shocked and bleeds out while he's down.

Varmint based cup/core bullets are not designed to go through and are phenomenal especially in neck shots. Schrapnel is very effective. I've killed many a deer with the old Interlocks which really did not hold tegether well at all post impact.

Regardless, I've used TSX exclusively since they first came out and prefer/place an emphasis on penetration and/or an exit over shrapnel, but that's just me. Neither is good/bad/right/wrong when used in the correct application.

Don't know about ya'll but I don't expect ballistic tips to exit. I expect them to do their work inside the animal. When they do, well that's fine also. I've switched to Accubonds as they fly like the ballistic tip and leave a generous hole going out and a bloodtrail should tracking become necessary.
Best

GWB

When using the 7x57 for deer hunting it's been my experience (over 60 deer W/ my 7x57) that a standard cup and core bullet is best. I've tried all the 140 & 145 gr. bullets that I could find. I'm currently shooting 150 Sierra Game Kings pushed to max. velocity. About 10 deer with this bullet and very pleased. I normally get about 24" or 26" of penetration if I don't hit a large bone which will limit, but not stop penetration. Boadside on a whitetail it produces massive damage but normally exits leaving a good blood trail if not a bang flop.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
Humberger, I noted the samething in my STW with the 150gr BT's.

The amount of internal damage was staggering, but I switchted to the 160gr AB and the "problem" was solved.

I agree that going with a 160 would fix it. Personaly I have steered away from BT's though. Their mushrooms are impressive and devastating, but i feel more comfortable with a plain vanilla cup and core unless it is a heavy for caliber BT. Accubonds are excellent, but I dont think they are needed for Deer. I used 145 gn hot cores on Muleys for years with no problems at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
I can push the new 80 gr TTSX at 4000 fps in a 25-06

There will be some who will doubt that velocity, but they just haven't tried moving the chronograph screens a little closer together. Works every time!

There will also be sime who DNS about the Barnes website and the ugly fact that they were getting 3850 in only a 24" 1 in 10 barrel. Mine is 28" and 1 in 13. If you want to lose some money, step up with cash in hand, perhaps first study ballistics 101.

Do you think that extreme velocity will severely limit your barrel life using the all-copper bullets, or does it even matter to you?

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Two deer kills, one @ 129 yds & the other @ 119 one shot each. Just bang drop kills.

Yeah, I'd toss those bullets in the garbage and go look for something made from spent uranium. Pretty disgusting when a deer falls in its tracks and denies you the satisfaction of tracking it a long way.

I load a 100 gn BT in my 257 Roberts at around 2900 fps. Can eek more but this is the accuracy charge. Several deer and pronghorn with it at varying ranges and all exited with minimal meat damage. I'm guessing this velocity is near the sweet spot for that bullet. If you go faster then the AB may be the better choice.

quote:

Originally posted by Clem:

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Two deer kills, one @ 129 yds & the other @ 119 one shot each. Just bang drop kills.

Yeah, I'd toss those bullets in the garbage and go look for something made from spent uranium. Pretty disgusting when a deer falls in its tracks and denies you the satisfaction of tracking it a long way.

I load a 100 gn BT in my 257 Roberts at around 2900 fps. Can eek more but this is the accuracy charge. Several deer and pronghorn with it at varying ranges and all exited with minimal meat damage. I'm guessing this velocity is near the sweet spot for that bullet. If you go faster then the AB may be the better choice.

Evidently some folks have never hunted cutover with briars that men can't walk through.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Two deer kills, one @ 129 yds & the other @ 119 one shot each. Just bang drop kills.

Yeah, I'd toss those bullets in the garbage and go look for something made from spent uranium. Pretty disgusting when a deer falls in its tracks and denies you the satisfaction of tracking it a long way.

Agreed Stonecreek. "Just bang drop kills" don't cut it anymore in the briars evidently.

quote:

Evidently some folks have never hunted cutover with briars that men can't walk through.

Humbarger, that's one of the biggest sources of disagreement on hunting forums. Alot of folks don't seem to understand that the other guy may be hunting in significantly differnt conditions then you are.....so his needs will be different.

I have shot BT's in a 300 H&H @3000, 7mm-08 140 @2900, 120 @ 2650, about a dozen deer with 100% pass throughs.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:

quote:

Evidently some folks have never hunted cutover with briars that men can't walk through.

Humbarger, that's one of the biggest sources of disagreement on hunting forums. Alot of folks don't seem to understand that the other guy may be hunting in significantly differnt conditions then you are.....so his needs will be different.

Finally the light came on! Thank you Antelope Sniper. Some of the places that I have to hunt you had better be equipped to drop the animal where they stand OR you just might not be able to find them.

Oh & by the way don't we owe it to the game that we hunt to drop them in their tracks anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:

Finally the light came on! Thank you Antelope Sniper. Some of the places that I have to hunt you had better be equipped to drop the animal where they stand OR you just might not be able to find them.

Oh & by the way don't we owe it to the game that we hunt to drop them in their tracks anyway.

Now I could care less what anyone uses, but here's what you said in your original post....."Two deer kills, one @ 129 yds & the other @ 119 one shot each. Just bang drop kills". Then you say the "light came on" and "some of the places that I have to hunt you better be equipped to drop the animal where they stand". This is exactly what the BT did, in your own words, didn't it? Then you proceeded to say you were switching because they didn't exit?

Talk about confused.........

Here is an instance of a Ballistic tip (Ballistic Silvertip) that did not fail to exit.

200 gr. CT-BST, out of a 338 RUM,
MV. +/- 3200 FPS.
Distance at POI, 267 yds., ranged with Lieca 1200 LRF Scan.
125 lb. Aoudad ewe, killed (not harvested) near Reagan Wells,Texas, 12/29/12


exit, left rib cage.



entry just left and below point of right shoulder


entry


exit.


I predict Jalepeno/Cheese Summer sausage in hte near future............


Best,

GWB

Good post Geedubya, the sausage sounds tasty.

On the topic at hand however, throw it in the issues bin.

Some folks want a bang flop don't care what happened to the bullet as long as the animal drops dead on the spot.

Some folks are happy with a bang flop, with the bullet creating an exit wound, just in case the critter decided not to die on the spot.

Some folks seem, from their reports to never have anything but bang flops, while others rarely experience a bang flop moment.

The deal is, we all hunt under different circumstances, and there is no one size fits all bullet/gun/caliber/scope, too many variables involved when it comes time to take the shot.

Go with what works best for you and let everyone else do the same. JAO.

You hear about bullets "anchoring" game, Well in all honesty, I can't say she was DRT. Being as I shot her on a pretty steep hill she was about 15' from the point of impact. Kind of a Bang-flop-roll, LOL

GWB

338 Ballistic tips are very stout. I tested some of the 180s in dry newspaper. I did have core separation but I don't think it matters too much when the jacket weighs 120 grains for 2/3 of the bullet weight.

Not much of a surprise as the results listed in this thread...Fast bullets that explode kill fast, thats good but on ocassions they can cause all kinds of grief, especially if your too close and velocity is too fast..If they run you may not get a blood trail as they bleed internally and can hell to recover or they may go so far that you don't find them.

A tougher bullet like the Nosler partition makes two holes, the exit usually being the larger of the two, the animal sometimes dies on the spot or he may go 100 yards but he will leave a blood trail to follow. I opt for the latter, it seems to work best for me, wastes less meat, and I don't mind an easy tracking job..

I don't trust fragile bullets, when they work the give awesome results but blood shoot a lot of meat and sooner or later you will run into trouble.

Well said Ray. As usual I might add.

+1

If you want exits the ballistic tips aren't what you should be using, if you love bang flops - I think they are the best deer bullet going.

I've killed a bunch of deer and several elk with 150 grain NBT's out of a 7mm RM and they are the most accurate bullet I've ever shot. I switched to them when they first came out, coincidentally the year before I had shot a big doe at about 40 yards with a factory corelokt and went running up the hill after the buck knowing she would be lying there when I got back. She wasn't, and there was no blood of any kind for over 150 yards in a circle. I was wondering how I had missed the deer and went to check the zero on my rifle. My cousin found the doe about 400 yards up that canyon with 2 caliber size holes through her lungs and no blood trail at all the following weekend. I never had anything like that happen in something like 20 years using the NBT's at very close and over 300 yard ranges. Then I had an NBT blow up on the outside of a nice Bull Elk sending shrapnel through his lungs, he left a great blood trail but it was 600 yards long. Now I shoot the Barnes ttsx and think it is the best of both worlds. Animals stop on the spot when hit and it exits every time so far on elk and a large boar even at extended ranges.

Try a 7-08 and 120 BT's and see how many you catch. Just got to go on a cull doe hunt on MLD ground in N TX. I killed 17 does with this combo, all exits. 100-300 yards.

All meat was donated to Hunters for the Hungry.