OK, couldn't stand it any longer and found a fellow willing to swap a like-new Ported 444Mar with the 18.5" barrel for some of my pristine-condition stuff. I'd gone with him to sight it in and shoot it a couple of times this past year and it did quite well.

Only problem is, I never shot it without hearing protection. Soooooo, does this sucker ring your earlobes or what???

It has a Red Dot sight on it. Not sure if I can acclimate myself to that device or not. Seems to "dry-fire" right well on dogs and cats that pass by. But, I've got a "seriously old" (30 years) K3-C3 Weaver (thin horizontal crosshair with a Tapered verticle Post) setting on the shelf. May have to panic and put it on.

Worst of all --- it's Blue and Wood! Had nearly all those suckers out of the Safe and then this one sneaks in. Looks like a candidate for John Lewis' PolyKoat. (Nice checkering for a machine.)

Called Marlin today to check on having the barrel "stretched". They said if I'd slide a $140 bill down the old barrel and send it to them, they would p-u-l-l that tube back out to 22" and return it to me without the "noise maker" holes in the tip. Seemed real reasonable to me. Of course, I'd want to do this before heading it down for the PolyKoat, "if" I select this option.

So, how `bout that noise???

Save your money and just cut the barrel short of the ports and recrown. I had a 444 Handcannon made by J.D. Jones and it only had a 14" barrel. It was unbelievably accurate.
Either way I'd wear hearing protection. Like your eyes, you only have one go around with your hearing. Firearm blast causes PERMANENT damage to your hearing. Sometimes a little at a time and sometimes a lot all at once. KA-BOOOOOM!
VH

Hot Core~

My b-in-l has a 444P and it is a sweet rifle...but my affection for it sours quickly anytime I am anywhere but straight behind it with ear muffs on. Just like recoil, in the field you won't notice it...only time will tell you your eardrums did.

Hey Varmint Hunter and Oilburner, I completely agree with your thoughts about the hearing loss. I screwed-up a few years ago and shot my 20" 350RemMag twice without hearing protection and my ears still ring. Definitely a big mistake.

I do want to hunt with this rifle and the option of turning it into a 22" barrel seems to have a lot of merit to it to get the noise farther away from my ears.

Also agree about the accuracy of those "stiff" short barrels. If the weather cooperates, I plan to hit the Range later this week and see how well this 444Mar will shoot.

I've had both and shot them side by side. The ported barrel is a little louder, but the ports hold down muzzle rise. I kept the 444P Outfitter. If you need reload data give me a shout. I've owned and reloaded for this caliber for many years and it's probally my favorite. Hope you enjoy it.
wort

Marlin IMHO made mistake with porting, I have a .44 rem mag Marlin 1894p with 16 1/4" barreland it is a fair bastard noise wise and really can not be shot without ear muffs. Other than that it is a nice little rifle.

So if you can get rid of the porting it will be fine, I also have a22" 45/70 and it is alright. Breaks and porting are for the big bangers I reckon.

[ 01-29-2003, 16:34: Message edited by: PC ]

Hey PC, I especially appreciate your impression of the noise level on your 22" 45-70. I'm leaning closer to the 22" option on this 444Mar.

I had a 21" 44Mag Contender Carbine and it wasn't "too" bad on the ears. Using 240gr Hornady XTPs and "2400", it ALWAYS dropped them in-their-tracks. No Exits(I prefer Exits), but none was needed on the ones I shot.

...

wort, "If you need reload data give me a shout. I've owned and reloaded for this caliber for many years and it's probally my favorite."

Hey wort, Well, yes indeed, please toss it in.

I'm not as interested in the actual xx.xgr of powder being used, but I'm real interested in how many powders you've tried and with which bullets. What kind of accuracy did you get? What kind of sighting equipment are you using?

The one I have has the Ballard rifling. I do intend to run a good many 240gr Gas Checked Lead bullets through it as well as 240gr, 265gr, 270gr and some 300gr Jacketed bullets.

I was moving some stuff around today and located one of the FREE Alliant catalogs. It even has a "Low Velocity Load" shown using 22.0gr "2400" with a 240gr Lead bullet in the 444Mar. It was running around 1725fps from a 24" barrel, so it might make a heck of a plinker.

But, I've got all kinds of powders on hand and want some Bone Crusher loads too. So, what powder(s) worked the best for you?

[ 01-30-2003, 01:37: Message edited by: Hot Core ]

Favorite powders are H-335 and Reloder#7 with hardcast and jacketed bullets 290grs. and up. H-4198 with 265gr HDY JFP and the HDY240grcrimp-lok. The 300grSpeerJSP is a good all around bullet for deer thru elk. The 290gr LFNGC from Beartooth Bullets is my favorite bullet to use. Handles everything. I push it 2225'/sec and it gives right at 1" accurcy if I do my job. The Hdy 265gr is also a great bullet for all around use. Hope you enjoy it and you'll be impressed when you shoot something with it.
wort

Hey wort, Thank you! I've got plenty of H335 on the shelf and will try it out. I'd looked through some Load Manuals and was wondering about H4198, so I'll get some of it.

Have you ever tried H322? I also have a bunch of it on the shelf.

Ah yes, the 265gr Hornady FP(PN# 4300)! Looks like an excellent bullet which I do want to try. Have you recovered one from Game? If so, what angle did it hit, what was the game, how far away were you and how much weight did the bullet retain?

And I see you are a Lead bullet fan, me too. Same questions as on the 265gr HFP?

The 240gr Lead Gas Checked bullets I have on hand are cast from Linotype, so they are pretty tough. I bought them originally to use in the 44Mag Contender I mentioned above. But, I traded it off prior to using one of them.

Have you tried the 270gr Speer Gold Dot bullets (PN# 4461)?

What do you consider the "Natural Bullet Weight" for the hunting you do in your 444Mar? What is the terrain like where you are hunting? Typical shot distance?

I also have some 300gr Sierra JSP bullets(PN# 8630) on the shelf and wondering if there is "enough" iron sight adjustment to use them? Do you know if anyone (Tru-Glo, Hi VIZ etc.) makes the Fiber Optic style sights to fit it?

Are you using a scope?

Don't let me wear you out with questions. I've not had a 444Mar before and I'm REAL INTERESTED in all the scoop I can get from someone who has actual experience with it.

[ 01-30-2003, 18:42: Message edited by: Hot Core ]

Hey Hot Core,
I'll try to answer your questions. I have not use H-322, but it is a good powder for the 444. Several of the Hodgdon powders are temp insenitive so you get the same preformance regardless of tempature. I've shot deer with the 265 Hdy. Worked great and could not recover. I would'nt hesitate to use it on elk sized game. The lightest lead I use is the 290LFNGC, but less weight will work fine. If your lead bullets have too much antimony they will be brittle and come apart on impact. Brinnel hardnest of 20-24 seems best to me. The 270gr Speer is a very good deer bullet. The 300gr is tougher and will not come apart. I like bullets from 265-300grs for the 444. The 240gr will work on deer if it's tough enough to hold together like a bonded JSP.
I hunt in thick woods and long shots are 50-75 yards. I do use the 444 for groundhogs out to 200 yards or so. Kills them pretty good. I use a scope and never tried fiber optics yet. A Weaver 1x3 is good.(V3). The 444 will serve you well. It will take anything in N.A. and most anywhere else.
Walt

Hey Walt, Thanks again for your experienced input.

I took the Red Dot off and gave it back to the guy I traded with today. He can use it on his Turkey Shotgun.

Started mounting the K3-C3 Weaver and am not real happy with the distance to the rear lens. I need to file one more cross-slot in the Weaver base. But, I can do that anytime.

It balances OK with the Weaver, but sure feels fine with only iron sights. May just end up getting "both" the irons and the Weaver sighted in.

Went to a local Gun Shop and got some H4198 for it too. Checked their price on bullets and decided to wait until the Gun Show comes to town next weekend.

Thanks again for all the input.

Hot Core,
I have experienced quite a few hangfires with w/ H322. Gave it up... H335 seems to work like magic. I have also had great success with H4198 and RE-7...

Hey Tombo21, THANK YOU!!! Always good to know of potential problems like that. I've not loaded the first one yet, just getting ready.

What weight/type Bullet were you using, what kind of Primer and what were the weather conditions? Not arguing with you at all, just interested in all the info I can get.

Have you experienced similar hang-fires with H322 in any other calibers?

Have you experienced any other Powders give you hang-fires in the 444Mar?

I've used a good bit of H322 in quite a few cartridges with excellent results, so I would not have anticipated that.

H335 56.0grs- for both 330gr Beartooth LFNGC's (2200fps) and 300gr Speer UCSP's (2200fps), makes for a stout shooter! I also tried the Hornady light magnum 265gr (2335fps) this year and turned a doe's head into a canoe. Last year, the 300gr UCSP plowed a fist sized hole through a doe at about 75yds. Shot her at the base of the neck in front of the shoulders. Needless to say, both deer that I have shot with it have dropped instantaneously. I don't have the Outfitter model, just the old 444ss with microgroove rifling. The 22" bbl isn't too long, and it handles very nicely. I topped it with a Nikon 4x and with the Hornady 265's I'm shooting 1" groups no problem. The only problem with my 444 is that I have too many other guns to shoot, and often times it sits in the safe as the other boys get to go out and play. My newest toy, an M70 in 375H&H, will be my friend this year (after I get it chambered for .375 Wby). But, I never get tired of carrying that 444 around, and will never sell it.

Hey 444shooter, Thanks for the input. Looks like you have an outstanding shooter with that Load in your rifle.

...

Well, I took it to the woods today. Couldn't stand it and had to fire that 18.5" Ported barrel to see jst how loud it is. Well, not as bad as I originally thought it would be. Seemed similar to a 22" 30-06.

Took the scope off and used the irons. Shot just fine. Had a couple of buddies drooling over it.

So, it looks like the folks at Marlin knew what they were doing.

Got the Owner's Manual today from Marlin. I plan to rip it apart in the morning and see just whats going on inside.

Thanks for all the good useful input.

As for noise, firing a .22 w/o hearing protection can damage your hearing...so not using hearing proctection is not "smart"

But there is one advantage to loozing your hearing from shooting noise: Sorry DEAR did not hear you.....


The argument that a 444 ported is louder than the non-ported, well I doubt Mr. Bose or Mr Dolby would concur. After all the same noise is just re-directed. Quite frankly I wish an accoustical engineer would weigh in on this 'noise' controversy.

As for rebarreling your rifle I thought of that two and it is certainly cheaper than buying a new rifle but since I am a firm believer in having two 444's just buy the 22" model, after all your wife has a dozen pair of shoes.... a dozen purse's.

Back to rebarreling. I would consider having my older Pre-Bolt, Micro-groove barrel model changed out to the Ballard Cut rifling which is on my 444p model BUT have delayed doing so because I want a 22" barrer from Marlin which would have the same muzzle diameter at the muzzle as does my 444p model. I do not like tappered barrel's and the heavier barrel would dampen recoil and not heat up as quickly. And having a gunsmith do the job is cost prohibitive, I do not know of a G-smith who would do the job for less than the cost of a new rifle...DO YOU?

As for recoil: shooting nearly any hunting caliber rifle from a bench in order to sight it in can be uncomfortable but the amount of time spent shooting at that BUCK is significantly negligible and when that BUCK appear's and I fire, afterwards I ask: what recoil, what noise all I heard was my heart pounding...even after 30 years of Deer hunting....

Belt,

no doubt your probably right, but the perceived noise is greater with breaks and porting. For example I can (I realsie it's not wise) shoot both my Ruger 30/06 and my cz .375 without muffs and while it's bloody loud, it does not make my ears feel like there is a dozen phones in my head which is the sensation I get if I accidently shoot my ported 16 1/4" barelled Marlin 1894p .44 rem mag.

And I woould never shoot my breaked .585 without muffs, my best mate shot his without muffs and he stated that his ears "were beyond ringing and were in pain" He did this accidently in the heat of the moment he forgot to lower his ear muffs. He was still pleased though as he hit his target

belt-loop: "I do not like tappered barrel's and the heavier barrel would dampen recoil and not heat up as quickly. And having a gunsmith do the job is cost prohibitive, I do not know of a G-smith who would do the job for less than the cost of a new rifle...DO YOU?"

Hey belt-loop, Just looked at the picture in the catalog REAL CLOSE and you are apparently correct about the 22" barrel having a bit of taper. I'd not noticed that before.

But no, I don't know anyone who can come close to the Marlin Factory $140 barrel swap.

That said, the 18.5" Ported version I have is muzzle heavy as is. Nothing at all wrong with that since it causes the rifle to "hang well" for off-hand shooting. The 22" with the same straight barrel would possibly be quite muzzle heavy.

...

Just got through cleaning it. Really nice the way the bolt comes out so you can clean it from the chamber end. Hadn't thought about that benefit when I was trading for it.

Bore is pristine and now has a light coat of lube on it.

Going to the Charlotte Gun Show this weekend to get cases and a Lee Case Length/Trimmer Gauge. Need to check on bullets for it too.

Speaking of bullets, I noticed Midway has the Speer 270gr Gold Dots for $7.69/50. I'll be looking to see if I can beat that price at the Show, but it might be tough to do.

Hey George, Thank you. I figured someone did, but hadn't been able to track them down yet.

It feels so good carrying it without a scope and considering where it will be used, I want to try the Fiber Optics.

Hey George, I did a search on Williams Gun Sights and it popped right up. You are correct that they have "drop-in" sights.

In fact, they offer a whole bunch of different styles. Some with Fiber Optics for both Front and Rear(Adjustable) and Fiber Optic Fronts with Peep Sight Rears(Adjustable).

So, now there is a new quandry, Fiber Optic Rear or Peep Sight!!! Good problem to have on my part. Before I started using scopes, I logged a lot of hours with both iron Rear sights of various styles as well as Peeps. Liked both.

Since I'll be using this inside 150yds, either would do just fine. Only problem with the Peep is it would not allow a scope to be mounted without removing it. But the Fiber Optic Rear model mounts in the rear dovetail, so it would be out of the way.

On the positive side, the Peep will in all likelyhood allow my old tired eyes a benefit of just having to focus on the front Fiber Optic instead of shifting back and forth.

Huuuummm, same old arguments my Elders made in my youth. Some things never change. I just need to grind this around a bit.

Thanks again!

[ 02-09-2003, 18:08: Message edited by: Hot Core ]